Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[aubreymcfato]

New article by my beloved Tom Randall:
«Tesla’s Model 3 sedan now sells for $4,930 less than the average new vehicle sold in the US. That’s the cheapest price Tesla has ever had relative to the typical US vehicle»

Source: Tesla Undercuts Average US Car by Almost $5,000 in EV Shakeout

 

[Artful Dodger]

Could be worse: (Oh, Henry)

143

Ford Motor Company

F

0.148522

12.31

-0.58

(-4.50%)

124

General Motors Company

GM

0.179578

41.51

-1.67

(-3.86%)

 

[TrendTrader007]

in my opinion, an investor needs 3 qualities to make big money in a stock like TSLA :
i call them 3 Ps
Patience, Perseverance and Persistence/lack of persistence

What is the difference between Persistence and Perseverance?​

• Definitions of Persistence and Perseverance:​

• Persistence refers to continuing a task in spite of difficulty until the individual finally achieves his goal.

• Perseverance refers to overcoming a difficult situation through strong determination.

• Denotation:​

• Persistence denotes a single-mindedness towards the achievement of a goal.

• Perseverance denotes overcoming an obstacle.

• Outcome:​

• Persistence sometimes can have negative outcomes when the goal is utterly futile.

• Perseverance does not have negative outcomes.

• Duration:​

• Persistence only lasts for a limited time.

• Perseverance can last for a lifetime.

• Obstinate Nature:​

• Persistence can sometimes be obstinate.

• Perseverance is not obstinate.

so take this time to examine your own qualities as an investor
often, biggest obstacle to creating wealth is not lack of opportunity but one' own failure to act in a manner consistent with creating great wealth

 

[Ogre]

Very good price action. Repeatedly testing $200 and establishing a firm floor with sideways action/consolidation into March 1 is great. $200 may not be seen ever again once TSLA takes off for good

Bad News: Stuck at $200/ share
Good News: Stuck at $200/ share


Bad news, this gives the bears a nice long opportunity to unload their shares. Only the greediest and most thick headed will be short when things get popping.

Good news: There are lots of greedy, thick headed shorts so there might still be a bit more short squeeze ahead.

 

[Paracelsus]

And while we are waiting for the TSLA spring to wind up a bit more, I can't help but wonder how much further GM's spring would have unwound without this administration trying to throw them a life preserver every step of the way. I just re-watched Charlie Berens' hilarious short video - How IKEA Was Invented - and couldn't help but think about the potential parallels of frantic GM 'EV Transition Team' meetings that might have occurred under Mary's leadership this last year after they announced what seemed like 400 new EV's that are 'coming soon'. Heck, this video could have even been mandatory GM EV Transition Team training......but I sure hope GM doesn't take this video too literally or their new EV's might come in a box with a single allen wrench for the customer to assemble :

 

[SOULPEDL]

Smart move!
Edit: I thought it was a Sonic Drive-Through... I gotta think some more on Subway?

'EV Charging Oasis' coming soon to Subway restaurants in the US

Subway has announced plans to install electric vehicle (EV) fast charging stations at their restaurants across the US. Billed as the “EV Charging Oasis of the future,” the stations will be built through a new […]

driveteslacanada.ca

OK, I'm done. Smart move!

 

[Ogre]

Even as GM is struggling to produce more than a few hundred EVs a year based on their new platform, Toyota just announced they are going to be producing 120,000 EVs/ year in the US by 2025 and increase that to 1 million per year by the end of 2026.

Yes, that’s correct, Toyota thinks they can break ground, build a factory, and source enough cells for 120,000 cars in the next 24-30 months and enough for a million cars in 46 months.

GM has been hammering at their Ultium platform for 3+ years and are struggling to produce 1000 on their new platform. Ford is 2+ years into this and producing around 50k using existing factories. Toyota? Zero to 1 million in less than 4 years. Hmm.

Unrealistic, but better than “Hydrogen or bust!!”

Toyota to begin production of electric SUV in the US by 2025: Report

Toyota will reportedly begin production of an electric SUV in the US by mid-decade in an attempt to make up lost ground in transition to electric vehicles (EVs). Toyota has been slow to embrace the […]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[Ogre]

Smart move!
Edit: I thought it was a Sonic Drive-Through... I gotta think some more on Subway?

'EV Charging Oasis' coming soon to Subway restaurants in the US

Subway has announced plans to install electric vehicle (EV) fast charging stations at their restaurants across the US. Billed as the “EV Charging Oasis of the future,” the stations will be built through a new […]

driveteslacanada.ca

OK, I'm done. Smart move!

Cannot stand Subway myself anymore. Using the word “Oasis“ in that context is a joke to me.

 

[Paracelsus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1628095247686201344

 

[ZeApelido]

As a no-USS Model Y owner that has been very active in the threads regarding no-USS owners awaiting the promised Tesla Vision update, I can tell you either have not read these threads properly or you are exaggerating in order to be funny.

The "enraged" owners are just terribly disappointed with Tesla's poor attitude in the switch to no-USS:
- first and foremost: to delete functions/parts without having an equivalent ready is disappointing in itself;
- even if there is a waiting period for the parking features to be restored, Tesla should communicate better to its customers;
- and those that cancel delivery due to not wanting to go through with a purchase of a no-USS model (after ordering BEFORE the Tesla Vision announcement) lose their $250 order fee. This in itself is "enraging" to some.

All in all, it's terrible PR for Tesla and the list of no-USS owners is growing exponentially.

Those like TesslaBear trying to derail the no-USS threads pointing out "Learn to drive/park, idiot!" are missing the point. A premium vehicle (+$50k) should have parking proximity features and it is a badge of shame for Tesla that they - the so called unbeatable technology leaders - do not provide their hundreds of thousands of new customers with parking features that a $20k vehicle has standard.

Will this kill the company? Absolutely not. I'm not being a Neroden over here.

Does it chip away at my trust in Tesla a little bit? Yes. Especially if it should turn out this feature never works reliably without USS sensors. Tesla will lose customers over this, should this happen.

The very least we should get an apology for the delay and a very strict timeline that says "parking features will be restored by [date] at the latest.".

Right now all we hear is Tesla talking, not walking the walk. And said threads are full of people having contacted Tesla service (including me, twice), but the replies of the Tesla Advisors show that we on TMC know more about Tesla AI developments than Tesla Advisors do.

So please don't find excuses for Tesla regarding the Tesla Vision fiasco, such as "people should learn to drive". We bought a premium car and want to minimize the risk of damaging it when parking. Especially forwards the visibility of the front is NIL and I can see how it's hard for some to park it in tiny garages. (Again, check those threads. People are hanging tennis balls in their garages, which works but it is quite sad that we should resort to these methods).

TL;DR: fix it Tesla. And soon. And properly.

Let's put some of the pieces together.

Tesla removes USS from newly produced vehicles.

Meanwhile, V11 will be coming soon.

V11 will introduce utilization of the Occupany Network not just to highways, but in smart summon / parking lots. This mean depth perception / object tracking w/ temporal memory. Which means Tesla vehicles with at least HW3.0 will be to recognize and remember the area surrounding the car not just while in view, but also after out of view of the cameras due to 3D triangulation relative to other known objects in the visual field.

I would guess this has been planned to be used to replace the USS. And my guess is it can work pretty well - save for some edge cases.

The obvious edge case is when entering the vehicle after a prolonged period of being parked. At this point the car has not tracked any changes that may have happened while it was parked. For instance say if your 4 year old daughter left her scooter lying flat in the front of your car (ahem Tali). This is new and out of view of the cameras, so the detection would miss it.

More speculation... enter HW4.0. With the rumored additional cameras near the front corners of the car, perhaps this could give a better field of view around the front of the car - thus addressing the main edge case.

It may be that V11 + HW4.0 released suddenly eradicates most of the benefit of dedicated USS, for lower cost and more profit to Tesla.

 

[Ogre]

The very least we should get an apology for the delay and a very strict timeline that says "parking features will be restored by [date] at the latest.".

This is almost certainly going to be resolve when v11 hits wide release. Tesla has been promising v11 for most of 2022. Equally clearly they have struggled to hit some important metrics with regards to v11. If they did announce a date, they would have blown through it.

There are no strict timelines with this sort of software. Driving software needs to launch when it’s ready, not when it hits some arbitrary deadline.

Same thing happened with Radar. They pulled it and vision only was less good than Radar for quite some time. Now I doubt people could tell the difference.

 

[Cobbler]

Let's put some of the pieces together.

Tesla removes USS from newly produced vehicles.

Meanwhile, V11 will be coming soon.

V11 will introduce utilization of the Occupany Network not just to highways, but in smart summon / parking lots. This mean depth perception / object tracking w/ temporal memory. Which means Tesla vehicles with at least HW3.0 will be to recognize and remember the area surrounding the car not just while in view, but also after out of view of the cameras due to 3D triangulation relative to other known objects in the visual field.

I would guess this has been planned to be used to replace the USS. And my guess is it can work pretty well - save for some edge cases.

The obvious edge case is when entering the vehicle after a prolonged period of being parked. At this point the car has not tracked any changes that may have happened while it was parked. For instance say if your 4 year old daughter left her scooter lying flat in the front of your car (ahem Tali). This is new and out of view of the cameras, so the detection would miss it.

More speculation... enter HW4.0. With the rumored additional cameras near the front corners of the car, perhaps this could give a better field of view around the front of the car - thus addressing the main edge case.

It may be that V11 + HW4.0 released suddenly eradicates most of the benefit of dedicated USS, for lower cost and more profit to Tesla.

My added piece: no more steering wheel stalks on Model 3: best part is no part

 

[SOULPEDL]

Cannot stand Subway myself anymore. Using the word “Oasis“ in that context is a joke to me.

Still, it's pretty healthy compared to most road food for the speedy ones. I'm having a sub right now (home made).

There's a row of superchargers at Cortes Junction headed north from Phx that already had a Subway, (pre Superchargers). So 10:1 Subway correlated increased traffic from the addition of those superchargers AND the increase in traffic lately especially. That stop was full for us in both directions. We had to wait about 5 min is all but that's a first ever at that location. (OT: was at Sedona Film Festival - "Pinball - The Man Who Saved the Game" OT... best movie ever, laugh/crying the whole time).

Meanwhile in Sedona, 3 large conduits (~3" diam) came out of the ground laying there next to the existing, so obvious upgrade is in progress. Oh, and this place needs a boring tunnel! I met Sandy (former Mayer), perhaps I should suggest it. Sedona has Tons of money with traffic hell several times/year.

 

[hobbes]

V11 will introduce utilization of the Occupany Network not just to highways, but in smart summon / parking lots. This mean depth perception / object tracking w/ temporal memory. Which means Tesla vehicles with at least HW3.0 will be to recognize and remember the area surrounding the car not just while in view, but also after out of view of the cameras due to 3D triangulation relative to other known objects in the visual field.

Will probably work - but what if things that the occupancy network remembers change after the car moves so close that they are out of direct view? Think of another car in an adjacent parking spot moving...

 

[hobbes]

Some short videos of FSD 11.3 in use.

https://twitter.com/Winnersechelon

From autopark video - interesting regarding ultrasonics discussion: Seems the car has ultrasonics and its still supported in the latest FSD beta software (not replaced by occupancy network). Or visualisation of occupancy network now looks exactly like USS did before...

 

[insaneoctane]

Let's put some of the pieces together.

Tesla removes USS from newly produced vehicles.

Meanwhile, V11 will be coming soon.

V11 will introduce utilization of the Occupany Network not just to highways, but in smart summon / parking lots. This mean depth perception / object tracking w/ temporal memory. Which means Tesla vehicles with at least HW3.0 will be to recognize and remember the area surrounding the car not just while in view, but also after out of view of the cameras due to 3D triangulation relative to other known objects in the visual field.

I would guess this has been planned to be used to replace the USS. And my guess is it can work pretty well - save for some edge cases.

The obvious edge case is when entering the vehicle after a prolonged period of being parked. At this point the car has not tracked any changes that may have happened while it was parked. For instance say if your 4 year old daughter left her scooter lying flat in the front of your car (ahem Tali). This is new and out of view of the cameras, so the detection would miss it.

More speculation... enter HW4.0. With the rumored additional cameras near the front corners of the car, perhaps this could give a better field of view around the front of the car - thus addressing the main edge case.

It may be that V11 + HW4.0 released suddenly eradicates most of the benefit of dedicated USS, for lower cost and more profit to Tesla.

If HW4.0 "suddenly eradicates most of the benefits of dedicated USS", what about the massive amount of vehicles sold without USS since October 2022 before the switch to HW4.0 happens?

 

[JoRoMo]

If HW4.0 "suddenly eradicates most of the benefits of dedicated USS", what about the massive amount of vehicles sold without USS since October 2022 before the switch to HW4.0 happens?

From an investment standpoint I would say insignificant.

 

[Max Plaid]

As a no-USS Model Y owner that has been very active in the threads regarding no-USS owners awaiting the promised Tesla Vision update, I can tell you either have not read these threads properly or you are exaggerating in order to be funny.

The "enraged" owners are just terribly disappointed with Tesla's poor attitude in the switch to no-USS:
- first and foremost: to delete functions/parts without having an equivalent ready is disappointing in itself;
- even if there is a waiting period for the parking features to be restored, Tesla should communicate better to its customers;
- and those that cancel delivery due to not wanting to go through with a purchase of a no-USS model (after ordering BEFORE the Tesla Vision announcement) lose their $250 order fee. This in itself is "enraging" to some.

All in all, it's terrible PR for Tesla and the list of no-USS owners is growing exponentially.

Those like TesslaBear trying to derail the no-USS threads pointing out "Learn to drive/park, idiot!" are missing the point. A premium vehicle (+$50k) should have parking proximity features and it is a badge of shame for Tesla that they - the so called unbeatable technology leaders - do not provide their hundreds of thousands of new customers with parking features that a $20k vehicle has standard.

Will this kill the company? Absolutely not. I'm not being a Neroden over here.

Does it chip away at my trust in Tesla a little bit? Yes. Especially if it should turn out this feature never works reliably without USS sensors. Tesla will lose customers over this, should this happen.

The very least we should get an apology for the delay and a very strict timeline that says "parking features will be restored by [date] at the latest.".

Right now all we hear is Tesla talking, not walking the walk. And said threads are full of people having contacted Tesla service (including me, twice), but the replies of the Tesla Advisors show that we on TMC know more about Tesla AI developments than Tesla Advisors do.

So please don't find excuses for Tesla regarding the Tesla Vision fiasco, such as "people should learn to drive". We bought a premium car and want to minimize the risk of damaging it when parking. Especially forwards the visibility of the front is NIL and I can see how it's hard for some to park it in tiny garages. (Again, check those threads. People are hanging tennis balls in their garages, which works but it is quite sad that we should resort to these methods).

TL;DR: fix it Tesla. And soon. And properly.

Yeah, it's pretty lame from Tesla to do this. About to take delivery of a MYLR to replace M3 and we had to agree to a waiver that the car had no parking-sensor and Tesla had no liability - what kind of BS is that? So now I have to explain to my wife why her shiny new car has less features than the previous one

Tesla do some utterly amazing stuff, but they can also be abysmally stupid from time to time too

 

[hobbes]

Same thing happened with Radar. They pulled it and vision only was less good than Radar for quite some time. Now I doubt people could tell the difference.

In bad weather, AP now gives me "speed limited" regularly and slows down. Very annoying. Didn´t do that when radar was still active. Might have to do with higher speed limits in Europe though.

 

[insaneoctane]

Yeah, it's pretty lame from Tesla to do this. About to take delivery of a MYLR to replace M3 and we had to agree to a waiver that the car had no parking-sensor and Tesla had no liability - what kind of BS is that? So now I have to explain to my wife why her shiny new car has less features than the previous one

Tesla do some utterly amazing stuff, but they can also be abysmally stupid from time to time too

The only possible way I can reconcile this decision to stop installing USS before the solution was in hand, is if there were supply chain issues getting the sensors and it would have held up production...otherwise spend the extra $30 (or whatever) until the solution is in hand. This ain't a Yugo.