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Semi General Discussion
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Do we know how it's charging? Is it using the Tesla megawatt charger? Is it using the megawatt charging system? Have we even seen one charging???
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
We have, they are using an earlier beta version of the MCS connector, it has multiple connections instead of the big burly two connections to provide power. Perhaps each of the connections is a single Supercharger feed into the Semi
Tesla has defined the v4 Supercharger connector that handles up to a megawatt but hasn't gone beyond that. They claimed that it would support both the Semi and the CyberTruck, but a Semi would take a LONG time to charge on a single megawatt charger, so either they use one on each side or they will use MCS, or they just have to be left charging overnight, and if you are doing that you could just use a Supercharger... Will be interesting to see the final result.
Tesla has defined the v4 Supercharger connector that handles up to a megawatt but hasn't gone beyond that. They claimed that it would support both the Semi and the CyberTruck, but a Semi would take a LONG time to charge on a single megawatt charger, so either they use one on each side or they will use MCS, or they just have to be left charging overnight, and if you are doing that you could just use a Supercharger... Will be interesting to see the final result.
No, they didn't. The announcement was about the V4 cable, specifically the immersion liquid cooling. Not the connector. I imagine that all new Tesla charging cables will use that same technology, even if the cables are larger for the Megachargers than for the V4 Superchargers.
Why do you think that? The Semi pack is somewhere around 1MWh, so assuming 1MW continuous it would take 1 hour to charge, but obviously it will ramp down as it gets fuller. Would it be faster with a 2MWh charger? Probably some, but again it has to ramp down as it gets to higher states of charge, so while it would be quicker for a small charge, the difference is much less when doing a full charge.
Pepsi says that their Megachargers are only 750kW, and that recharging takes 35-45 minutes. (I think they are stating that time from 20% to 90%, but they aren't totally clear on the details.)
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Why are we still having this conversation, watch the video, the screen at the Semi-Delivery event shows they were specifically talking about the v4 charger:
And we know the connector from the previous released NACS info and the statement here that the CT and the Semi will share the connector.
If the Quarter MegaWatt v3 Supercharger takes 1/2 an hour to charge my 66kWh remaining battery, why wouldn't v4 take 2 hours to charge the Megawatthour Semi battery? Trying to get charged during your lunch break won't be enough time compared to an MCS charger that will handle multi-megawatts
And we know the connector from the previous released NACS info and the statement here that the CT and the Semi will share the connector.
If the Quarter MegaWatt v3 Supercharger takes 1/2 an hour to charge my 66kWh remaining battery, why wouldn't v4 take 2 hours to charge the Megawatthour Semi battery? Trying to get charged during your lunch break won't be enough time compared to an MCS charger that will handle multi-megawatts
Nope. That graphic, and what they were talking about when it was shown, is totally about the cable technology.
- What does the title say? "immersion cooling technology"
- What does the graph show? Amps per mm2 of cable for the V2, V3, and V4 cables. (All about the amount of power you can shove through a given size of cable.)
- What do the graphics on the right show? A cross section of the V3 and V4 cables.
People get confused because the "V"s refer to many different things that can get mixed and matched:
- Vx Supercharger posts
- Vx Supercharger cabinets
- Vx cables
- Vx Supercharger site
I don't think that is true. Can you provide a link to anything from Tesla saying what charging inlet will be on the Semi? I don't think they have ever said, and they certainly haven't said it will be NACS.
I guess you should tell Pepsi that they don't know what they are talking about when they say it takes 35-45 minutes to recharge the Semi with a 750kW charger... One possibility is that Tesla leaves a top buffer on the pack, such that it doesn't have to ramp down as much when it charges to "full." (Like Porsche/Audi have done on their vehicles to enable faster charging.)
Also, Tesla says adding up to 70% of range takes 30 minutes:
How long would the remaining 30% take? We don't know, but it probably isn't 1.5 hours.
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israndy
Supercharger Hunter
The only thing we have to go on is the line from that video I keep mentioning:
I read that as saying the CyberTruck and the Semi will use the same chargers, this megawatt class charger they developed. So will they both support the same connector? Seems to imply it. Will it just be v4 Superchargers? Will it be MCS? Will CTs have both? Heck, will they charge at Superchargers at all? All unknown so far and the current trucks seem to come with preproduction connectors and chargers.
You are taking info from Frito-Lay and saying take the rumors they have spread as gospel. I don't buy that. It's a rumor that it's a 700kW charger, it's a rumor that it charges in 30 minutes. Sure it may be happening, but why are they not posting videos? Heck that 500 mile time lapse you can see they barely get above 60 MPH and most of it is spent well under 50. Can they get 500 miles at 75 MPH with a load? Lots of questions, but I don't think you have any more answers here.
I read that as saying the CyberTruck and the Semi will use the same chargers, this megawatt class charger they developed. So will they both support the same connector? Seems to imply it. Will it just be v4 Superchargers? Will it be MCS? Will CTs have both? Heck, will they charge at Superchargers at all? All unknown so far and the current trucks seem to come with preproduction connectors and chargers.
You are taking info from Frito-Lay and saying take the rumors they have spread as gospel. I don't buy that. It's a rumor that it's a 700kW charger, it's a rumor that it charges in 30 minutes. Sure it may be happening, but why are they not posting videos? Heck that 500 mile time lapse you can see they barely get above 60 MPH and most of it is spent well under 50. Can they get 500 miles at 75 MPH with a load? Lots of questions, but I don't think you have any more answers here.
So you are taking something you read somewhere as gospel, while you are saying something from someone that actually owns/uses the vehicle is a rumor?
Everything I have seen where people say the Cybertruck and the Semi will use the same connector are all pointing to the same presentation that you did. But that presentation is about the cable, not the connector, so they are all wrong.
I'm 99.9% sure that the Cybertruck will have NACS and the Semi will have MCS. (We already know for a fact that the current Semis that Pepsi have are using a beta MCS connector, which makes sense as the spec hasn't been finalized yet. So Tesla will probably just retrofit the Semis and Megachargers with the final MCS connector once the spec is finalized and ratified.)
Semis won't be charging at Superchargers and Cybertrucks likely won't be charging at Megachargers. (Yes, I know they used special adapters/cables to charge alpha and beta Semis at Superchargers, but that won't be happening with production Semis.)
The speed limit for Semis in California is 55 MPH, so the video they shared is enough to get their driver a ticket for speeding...
That isn't even legal in California... So no.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I just watched the State of Charge video regarding CharIN and MCS and all that, and they weren't able to show any charging. I get they may be troubleshooting on either side for testing and all, but we haven't seen any Tesla Semi's charging. Have anyone seen any electric semi charging? Why is this stuff so secret???
We've seen pictures of Tesla Semis plugged in to Tesla Megachargers, assuming that they are charging.
Why would you expect to see Tesla Semis charging anywhere? Companies tend to keep things under wraps when it is under development. Just like we haven't seen the Cybertruck charging anywhere.
The Tesla Semis Pepsi has are charged on their private on-site Megachargers, they don't use any public chargers.
We have seen alpha/beta Semis charging at Superchargers using custom cables/adapters.
If you are talking about any Semis, we have seen Bjorn show Semis, and other heavy vehicles, charging at CCS stations in Europe.
MCS hasn't been finalized/ratified yet, so there are no public chargers. And there are no production vehicles using it yet. (The Tesla Semi probably is, but they are using an earlier prototype connector, which will probably get replaced once MCS is official.)
Because I imagine Tesla would want to tell to more people than just Pepsi. Because shareholders and other future owners may want more information on charging and such? Because the technology itself is interesting. Because, it has implications for future charging and standards for the entire trucking industry. It has implications on rollout of MCS or whatever for cross country electric trucking. It doesn't have to be from Pepsi. I'm sure Tesla has a way of charging at several facilities. The Semi has been out for 6 months to paying customers who use them with 1000 other reservations in the works and no one knows how it's charging? Doesn't that seem a little odd?
Why? They already have more orders than they will be able to fill in a long time. They have even stopped taking new orders. They don't want to market/advertise and create more demand.
Tesla is a CharIN member, and is directly influencing the MCS standard, they don't need to share information with the public for that. (As is the rest of the industry.)
Maybe once MCS in finalized it would make sense to share public information about it.
The Tesla Semi only has one customer that I know of: Pepsi. They may have even had to sign an NDA specifying what they could share, or what they couldn't, to be the first company to get Tesla Semis.
But, everyone know how it works. The Semi pulls in to a Tesla Megacharger and plugs in. Just like other Tesla vehicles pull in to a Tesla Supercharger and plug in. Tesla has never really shared technical details about how their charging hardware works, that has all been figured out by individuals based on equipment labels, permits, people taking pictures of equipment while it is being installed/serviced, etc. From what we have seen the Megacharger sites are made up of V3 Supercharger cabinets, just with a different stall post/cable/connector, so it all works exactly the same as Superchargers. (I don't think there is much special to share.)
Yeah, why would a company want more money from preorders sit in their bank, to invest, or to work towards other current endeavors like SC expansion. That would be silly.
If the answer is that Tesla is involved in the testing to finalize this standard and all, then great. That halfway makes sense. ...but I haven't heard that. If that's the case, I'd say the Tesla Semi is still in beta testing and so who cares... which is contrary to a giant delivery event they had. Pick one, Tesla.
This spreadsheet suggests that there are lots of different customers and preorders. Pepsi is the only one that has gotten one. NDA is definitely in place. My takeaway: the Semi is still in beta testing. It's not actually available. It's not actually delivered. It's still in testing... so who cares. You can't say "We are delivering this vehicles to customers! Look what we did!!!" and at the same time say "We ain't telling you anything about the most critical component of it nor are we allowing our customers [i.e. testers] to say anything about it. Shut up and be in awe."
It's not available. Elon said yesterday that they aren't going to start mass deliveries until late next year.
They've delivered like 54 or so to PepsiCo. That's it.
