Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

[Singuy]

Tesla

Rivian investors cling on to this as well. They have always touted the R2 as their Model 3.

It's absolutely not Apples to Apples as the car market/EV market is much different than it was 10 years ago.

Please understand the difference between positive GROSS margin and positive NET margin.

Gross margin= (Revenue - COGs)/Rev

Net margin: (Revenue - COGs - Operating expense -Interest -Taxes)/Revenue

Positive gross margin is a much much much lower bar than positive net margin. If a company has a negative NET margin but a positive Gross margin, online headline can still say "Tesla is losing money on every car they sell". Only a positive NET margin counts as "profitable" as a company.

Elon made sure to demonstrate not only a positive gross margin on everything they sold, but also demonstrated a positive NET margin on everything they sold before moving on to the next product for at least 1 quarter. The roadster had a positive NET margin in 2009, the Model S in 2013, Model S/X in 2016, and the Model 3 in 2018.

 

[BornToFly]

Rivian fans point to the Model S selling at a $4k loss when they announced the M3. Google shows the Model S was selling around a $4k loss as late as 2015...now I didn't dive deep as you know half the *sugar* online about Tesla is false.

Tesla burns cash, loses more than $4,000 on every car sold

Tesla's narrower margin for error is just one more way in which it is different from its century old rivals.

www.cnbc.com

This was almost a year after the Model 3 was announced.

Also, Rivian claims they will break even on each car sold by Q4 this year (we'll see).

But, they tell their customers/investors they are following Tesla's path...again, not completely honest, but that's the story.

Wrong. Model S always had positive gross margins.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Wrong. Model S always had positive gross margins.

Again, I said it may be bullshit, but this is what Rivian claims their path to be and what many investors believe from news articles like the one I posted.

I can't say it will be successful for them, because it's not the same, but those are things that people point on the Rivian investor threads.

 

[vikings123]

Wrong thread guys

 

[uscbucsfan]

Wrong thread guys

Sorry. I didn't mean to disrupt my favorite thread on the forum. (not sarcastic)

 

[Jim Holder]

Piling on:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768017675027185887

 

[thenewguy1979]

Some weekly Charts Observation.

SMCI - seem ITM Put Selling would have yielded success for the last 2 months.

NVDA - same

TESLA - I dont know??? Seem kinda sad.

 

[MikeC]

FWIW I'm currently flat all short positions. Not selling calls nor more puts down here (too late for that for me, see below). Nor am I adding to long calls either as I have too much -P and +delta exposure for further weakness as it is (plus my poor longs 6,000 @CB $328 )

My current bag of snakes:

LONG CALLS

• 10x +C205 4/19 @ 8.50 (-72% -$6,109)
  
  
• 5x +C210 5/17 @8.85 (-26% - $2,527)
  
  
• 10x +C255 9/20 @18.50 (-74% -$13,769)
  
  
• 2x +C180 1/17/2025 @31.00 (-10.8% -$615)
  
  
• 5x +C270 1/2025 @13.38 (-39.8% -$2,678)
  
  
• 5x +C150 12/2025 @109.35 (-46.16% -$25,232)

SHORT PUTS

• 10x -P250 9/20 @57.80 (-41% -$24,655); extrinsic 1.30
  
  
• 15x -P300 6/2026 @115.76 (-16.8% -$29,415); extrinsic 4.78

I invite suggestions if you see anything I can do to improve the lot. For sure to cut the +C205 4/19 (37 days left) ASAP on any DCB if we get one even at a loss. It was a good mule for writing against. I can always get longer dated calls further out at the true next low if I want.

So far my CC scalping brought in 2024, which definitely helps. Hope I won't have to give it back:
January: $73,080
February: $45,185.00
March: $15,069.00


Godspeed to us all!

I would consider rolling down some of those 2025s to lower strikes by adding cash. It makes them safer and gives you more positions to sell calls against when the SP is down here. I think of it like this: the new lower-strike position has lost even more than the current position you're trading in, so in a way you saved yourself money compared to if you had bought the lower strike in the first place.

If you go DITM enough, you're not paying that much more to roll out, either. If we rebound, the difference in strike more than makes up for the initial cash outlay. But that's if we rebound.

 

[Jim Holder]

I would consider rolling down some of those 2025s to lower strikes by adding cash. It makes them safer and gives you more positions to sell calls against when the SP is down here. I think of it like this: the new lower-strike position has lost even more than the current position you're trading in, so in a way you saved yourself money compared to if you had bought the lower strike in the first place.

If you go DITM enough, you're not paying that much more to roll out, either. If we rebound, the difference in strike more than makes up for the initial cash outlay. But that's if we rebound.

Thanks @MikeC. Are you referring to the short puts or also the long calls, and which strikes/DTE do you have in mind as roll destinations?

 

[ggr]

Exactly. Tesla had one quarter of negative Auto gross margin in its history. The contrast with Rivian is huge.

View attachment 1027599

Wrong. Model S always had positive gross margins.

As you can see in the graph above, Q3 2012 was indeed a negative Gross Margin. While Tesla managed to deliver the first ten Model S in Q2, there were a lot of S's that were undergoing significant re-work before they could be delivered even in Q3. I can't remember if they had already stopped delivering Roadsters by then, but there were not many being delivered if any, and if there were any, they were positive GM.

My car, VIN 29, supposed to be delivered in July, Actually delivered Sept 17. Elon called it"pinky"... but the color is Cadillac Lavender Mist. A factory insider sent me the photo.

 

[Jim Holder]

 

[MikeC]

Thanks @MikeC. Are you referring to the Short puts or also the long calls, and which strikes/DTE do you have in mind?

Thanks.

The calls. It is pretty expensive with a lot of contracts, but for example you could add ~$6000 to get a 1/25 180c to a 6/26 100c, which gets you $80 in strike improvement and another 18 months. Plus you can still sell calls when SP is sub-180.

 

[Jim Holder]

 

[DaBooster]

View attachment 1027640

View attachment 1027644

View attachment 1027641

View attachment 1027642

164.20 critical

 

[Max Plaid]

sorry, guys

i am just waiting to get out of my 206 B/W, then i am totally out, no buying at 160 or 144

if TSLA moons after that, very happy for you all and it's my loss

non-stop ongoing daily drama nonsense after nonsense last 3+ years just wore me out

(click on dislike, if you want)

Also thinking hard about what I do if it dumps to 100, do I really want 10000 shares? Why? Are they going to go to ATH any time soon? Maybe I should just use all the cash from the +p150's to sell a ton of puts instead, then flip to IC's

My rationale for buying a load of stock was for selling calls, forever, but that can be achieved with spreads/IC's, or even just sticking with my calendars, without the drama and heartache of being in the stock

As I said earlier, nobody wants it, not even us bulls!

And how about that walk-down today, straight line, non-stop, all day pretty much

 

[mongo]

As you can see in the graph above, Q3 2012 was indeed a negative Gross Margin. While Tesla managed to deliver the first ten Model S in Q2, there were a lot of S's that were undergoing significant re-work before they could be delivered even in Q3. I can't remember if they had already stopped delivering Roadsters by then, but there were not many being delivered if any, and if there were any, they were positive GM.

Roadsters were still being sold internationally

Q2 2012: 10 S, 89 Roadsters
Q3 2012: 253 S, 68 Roadsters
Q4 2012: ~2400 S, most of the remaining Roadsters

 

[Jim Holder]

The calls. It is pretty expensive with a lot of contracts, but for example you could add ~$6000 to get a 1/25 180c to a 6/26 100c, which gets you $80 in strike improvement and another 18 months. Plus you can still sell calls when SP is sub-180.

Is this what you mean, trade all 2025 calls for +C100 6/26:

STC 2x +C180 1/17/2025 - book the $650 loss, but frees up $6,500 cash
STC 5x +C270 1/2025 - book the $2,600 loss, but frees up $4,000 cash
STC 5x +C150 12/2025 - book the $25,000 loss, but frees up $30,000 cash
Total cash freed up: $40,500.00

Use the money to
BTO 5x +C100 6/26 @90.00 = $45,000

I could raise more cash by selling the dying 2024 +C's as well (see below) to fund more +C100 6/26, does that make sense too?

------


Current positions:

LONG CALLS

• 10x +C205 4/19 @ 8.50 (-72% -$6,109)
  
  
• 5x +C210 5/17 @8.85 (-26% - $2,527)
  
  
• 10x +C255 9/20 @18.50 (-74% -$13,769)
  
  
• 2x +C180 1/17/2025 @31.00 (-10.8% -$615)
  
  
• 5x +C270 1/2025 @13.38 (-39.8% -$2,678)
  
  
• 5x +C150 12/2025 @109.35 (-46.16% -$25,232)

SHORT PUTS

• 10x -P250 9/20 @57.80 (-41% -$24,655); extrinsic 1.30
  
  
• 15x -P300 6/2026 @115.76 (-16.8% -$29,415); extrinsic 4.78

This is the +C205 4/19:

This is the 5x +C210 5/17:

This is the 10x +C255 9/20 (as good as dead really):

This is the 2x +C180 1/2025:

This is the 5x +C270 1/2025:

This is the +C150 12/2025:

 

[Max Plaid]

Any truth to this?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1767997105883209980

I stopped following that account as it became totally unhinged...

But I think the possibility exists that as the SP drops, margin calls will kick in and brokers might indeed pull the rug by increasing margin requirements

After all, this is what we saw end of 2022 that fuelled the crash back then

So FFS, don't be reliant on margin in times like this

 

[Max Plaid]

Good bag of snakes… you can chill for a while and no one would fault you. Let them work.

Did you spot they're +C's, not -C... all heading to zero right now...

 

[ChiefRollo]

Did you spot they're +C's, not -C... all heading to zero right now...

? Let me check again.