Then they should give it up, to completely invalidate any appearance of impropriety. Same with any other media companies taking "state" funding.
Should those companies also give up all of their corporate funding?
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Then they should give it up, to completely invalidate any appearance of impropriety. Same with any other media companies taking "state" funding.
You're missing the point. Most people here have spent years arguing with FUD such as 'Elon got all his money from the Govt.' or 'emerald mine'. We ALL get help from one another. Tesla benefitted from loans, which it paid back early, as well as from public education and infrastructure. It used these to channel Elon's singular genius and his almost unbelievable capacity for hard work, as well as the hard work of 100,000 employees, into creating wonderful cars (and more) to create the EV revolution, and to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. We here bought Teslas and shares and spent a decade talking up Elon and Tesla to everyone we know till their brains went numb.It was a general grouping, but for details here are 2 articles.
Ford, still hasn't fully repaid their loan:
Ford took $6B government loan in 2009 — and debt still haunts company
Ford isn't alone in the struggle, but it entered 2020 reporting a much smaller-than-expected profit than its competitors.www.freep.com
GM, as you correctly state, was bailed out and all of that funding didn't come back, the Gov wrote off 10.6B.
In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.
In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.money.cnn.com
Compared to Tesla, who took an ~$450M loan, and repaid it in fully, 9 years early, with interest:
Powerful facts. Do they contain any truth? Most "old GM" debt was converted to shares in the new GM during Chapter 11 (a very common practice). This included a big chunk of their government loans. The US Treasury was free to hold or sell their shares as they saw fit. They sold them all by 2013 or 2014 at an ~11b loss.Facts like GM STILL hasn't paid back their bailout money from 2008/2009. Facts like Ford took a large gov loan at the time to avoid bankruptcy, that also hasn't been paid back.
Deals as bad as the BuffaloEverything else Tesla has "gotten from the government" was equally available to any other company building EVs. That was kinda the point of the EV "incentives", to spur the industry on.
Your own link says oil/gas are 16b. The other 4b is coal, which is used to generate electricity, some of which fuels...... oh, never mind.Which is still CHUMP CHANGE compared to the 20B in oil/gas subsidies EACH YEAR.
Which energy source is most subsidized in the US?
President Biden has committed to shifting the United States to renewable energies but the fossil fuel industry still receives billions of dollars every year.en.as.com
It was a general grouping, but for details here are 2 articles.
Ford, still hasn't fully repaid their loan:
Ford took $6B government loan in 2009 — and debt still haunts company
Ford isn't alone in the struggle, but it entered 2020 reporting a much smaller-than-expected profit than its competitors.www.freep.com
GM, as you correctly state, was bailed out and all of that funding didn't come back, the Gov wrote off 10.6B.
In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.
In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.money.cnn.com
Compared to Tesla, who took an ~$450M loan, and repaid it in full, 9 years early, with interest:
I think that's a bit of a reach given Tesla could have opted out of state funding too, but there is no good reason to do so.Then they should give it up, to completely invalidate any appearance of impropriety. Same with any other media companies taking "state" funding.
This comes full circle back to Elon's statement that for fairness, ALL subsidies should be removed. Credit where credit is due, have you EVER heard another auto CEO asking for subsidies to be removed?
Mostly because of the uncritical brown nosing of "Elon can do no wrong" sycophants.I do recommend that you take a snorkel because it stinks down there.
And said by the guy who recently introduced the turd emoji to this thread.Mostly because of the uncritical brown nosing of "Elon can do no wrong" sycophants.
I think that's a bit of a reach given Tesla could have opted out of state funding too, but there is no good reason to do so.
We are straying further and further as to why Elon created the state funded label in the first place. It's because he didn't do basic research and had the "state affiliated" label applied to NPR, got egg on his face that it was not applicable according to Twitter's own standards, and had to apply some other similar label to try to save face, and didn't do basic research on that either (he probably assumed government funding is a large portion of NPR's funding as do probably most people given the format of their media)
On the subject of state funded, Saudi has a huge holding in Twitter itself:
Saudi Kingdom Holding Co. rolls over ownership of $1.89bn Twitter shares to Musk’s Twitter
RIYADH: Saudi Kingdom Holding Co. and the private office of Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal announced the roll over of their ownership of the existing 34,948,975 shares in Twitter valued to the New Twitter, led by Elon Musk. KHC and PO are jointly the second largest investor after Elon Musk, the...www.google.com
Elon just got called out by the SF DA for blabbing before the facts were out. He'd do himself a favor by simply STFU except for statements that relate directly to his job. The perpetrator is a tech worker/entrepreneur who knew Bob Lee.
Really? I haven't found a statistic about "violent crime" in general, but this one about the homicide rates in 2022 among the 75 largest cities in the US:
Chicago, New Orleans were the nation’s murder capitals in 2022 – A Wirepoints survey of America’s 75 largest cities | Wirepoints
Chicago and New Orleans were the nation’s murder capitals in 2022. They're just two of the local governments in America’s homicide hot-spots that continue to falter in their role as protectors of public safety more than two years removed from George Floyd’s murder and the covid pandemic. Chicago...wirepoints.org
San Francisco is, among the 75 largest cities, the 18th most safe (6.9 per 100k), right after Austin TX (6.8 per 100k).
One decimal difference.
What's your guess for the city with the highest homicide rate? Chicago?
No, New Orleans (74.3 per 100k).
Chicago is the 13th highest (27.7 per 100k).
So San Francisco and Austin are less than 1/10 of New Orleans, and a bit less than 1/4 of Chicago.
And you can hardly find a better example of why a microblogging platform which rewards posts based on who knows what algorithm, totally un-edited, and treats completely unfounded opinions on a more or less equal basis is not a very good source for news. Take this.Elon just got called out by the SF DA for blabbing before the facts were out. He'd do himself a favor by simply STFU except for statements that relate directly to his job. The perpetrator is a tech worker/entrepreneur who knew Bob Lee.
DA Calls Out Elon Musk Over San Francisco Crime Comments Following Killing of Bob Lee
And you can hardly find a better example of why a microblogging platform which rewards posts based on who knows what algorithm, totally un-edited, and treats completely unfounded opinions on a more or less equal basis is not a very good source for news. Take this.
We know Bob Lee was stabbed, we know it from traditional media. I have not surveyed all the media, but if its anything like the reporting on most murders, unless there is a suspect under arrest, traditional media does not speculate.
Not so with this guy "Jake Shields," who is not a reporter, not a writer, but as far as I can see so far a rather buff looking former MMA guy who probably trains people perhaps celebrities or rich guys, like perhaps Bob Lee.
Thanks in some part to Sheilds, the story gained traction, from an SF Gate article Man who fueled politicization of Bob Lee's death isn't backing down:
The next day, the story was everywhere. Shields’ Twitter thread was cited in write-ups by the New York Post and others, and also garnered a response from Twitter owner Elon Musk, one of many prominent individuals to engage with the thread.
At 8:24 a.m. Wednesday — 12 hours after Shields’ initial viral tweet — SFGATE sent a Twitter direct message to Shields asking for “more info on the details [he] shared that Bob was walking in the city and likely mugged when he was stabbed.” Eleven minutes later, Shields replied, “Honestly I don’t have many details. I just assumed mugging because Bob isn’t a guy with enemies so it had to be random.”
Of course he doesn't have "many details" he doesn't have ANY details. He's got a twitter account, and a nice 'tude, I will give him that -- from the same article:
Shields has spent most of his Thursday on Twitter responding to backlash over him writing, “We need to normalize fat shaming not body positivity.” One of these tweets reads, “I’ve realized I was wrong and would like to sincerely apologize to the millions of fat people I’ve offended[.] As a peace offering ill buy you a Big Mac, Fries, and a large milkshake.”
Oh my god, the comedic brilliance. I need sun glasses.
Anyway, I guess I am not cut out for twitter as since when uninformed people comment on uninformed other people I see no benefit to it. I'd rather waste time here, where at least most posts contain some semblance of research or at least actual experience.
Maybe not in this thread but generally.
Yes.That whole media puppet master meme has some pretty dark intonations if you're familiar with that sort of thing.
This brings me back to how I felt months ago. I cannot believe Elon Musk has enough time to be a twitter aholic. But I must concede its true, he's just addicted to it, and he had $44 Billion to spend on his favorite hobby.
... At 8:24 a.m. Wednesday — 12 hours after Shields’ initial viral tweet — SFGATE sent a Twitter direct message to Shields asking for “more info on the details [he] shared that Bob was walking in the city and likely mugged when he was stabbed.” Eleven minutes later, Shields replied, “Honestly I don’t have many details. I just assumed mugging because Bob isn’t a guy with enemies so it had to be random.”
Of course he doesn't have "many details" he doesn't have ANY details. ....