Drive unit problems explanation by Elon

[Doug_G]

Tesla has never reached out to me ever. Are they only doing this in areas that are not heavily-populated by Tesla owners? It's hard enough to get a service appointment that isn't a month out, and even harder to get valet service or a loaner, I can't imagine them actively looking for more cars to work on.

Does Tesla know who ken830 is in real life?

 

[dhanson865]

So I finally decided to get to the bottom of this. Yesterday I had a passenger sitting in the rear seat who had commented about a high frequency noise coming from behind. We were in a parking structure so I had him stick his iphone out the window to get a recording.

IMO, the noise is most audible between 35-45 s, immediately after you hear the ICE engine firing up. Granted, it's on an iPhone so the audio isn't the greatest and the noise sounds a bit muffled, but despite that I do hear the noise which seems to correspond to what others have reported: only on the + kW side, never in regen, increases in pitch until essentially inaudible above ~40-50 kW power draw.

huh, I'm sorry were you making a joke I didn't get or writing about a non Tesla vehicle?

duh, I didn't notice the youtube URL. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

[pgiralt]

huh, I'm sorry were you making a joke I didn't get or writing about a non Tesla vehicle?

In the video he is driving through a parking lot and while he's driving you hear another car start up. I didn't quite get it either until I actually watched the video.

 

[apacheguy]

huh, I'm sorry were you making a joke I didn't get or writing about a non Tesla vehicle?

Sorry for the confusion. I just used the very audible sound of an ICE ignition simply as a marker for when the whirring is most audible.

The sound does not particularly concern me (the driver), however I must admit it is more noticeable to my rear passengers especially if their windows are rolled down. I'm just concerned that this sound could worsen over time or be an indicator of a reliability issue of the drive unit.

[video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=J-XNAWXCE6Y[/video]

----updated----

Argh, I can't get this to embed. Sorry.

 

[Kraken]

you should be lucky. that (and maybe it's just iphone audio) sounds about 100x quieter than my car. If it is the same problem, which it sounds like we're hearing the same noise, yours hasn't progressed very far. The only other car I've ridden in and listened for that noise had it too. It was more like your audio level, and the driver didn't even notice it until I pointed it out. I'm starting to think we all have it, but it really depends on how bad we have it. If it isn't bad enough, you don't notice it until you know what to look for. I recommend not listening for it if you've never heard it before!

I probably wouldn't take a chance swapping out batteries or drive trains if I were you... could end up sounding like mine!

 

[qwk]

I'm pretty sure that's a normal sound. Every Model S I have driven has that faint sound.

 

[apacheguy]

Sounds good. It's hard to tell what everyone describes as a whirring sound here because people have different sensitives to noises. Like I said, I'm not particularly sensitive to it up in the driver's seat - only if I'm sitting in the rear or the windows are rolled down. I was mostly concerned because TM was replacing drive units for this noise which made me think it could be tied to a reliability issue.

I'll keep an eye on it and only raise the issue if it becomes louder.

 

[CHL]

Recorded this morning, second DU with only 2500 miles !
Definitively not a cable on contact with the motor.....

https://soundcloud.com/tags/bruit%20drive%20unit

 

[Chas F]

My MS60 is in the shop today for the "hum". They are replacing the drive unit.

 

[wycolo]

@CHL - Good audio recording! That is an axle-speed situation so it must have to do with differential/final_drive. Or even a bad wheel bearing.
--

 

[FlasherZ]

When I had the "electronics hum" problem (detailed here), the service center took a recording and sent it off to engineering, who helped determine what needed to be done. Definitely reach out.

Unfortunately, I can't hear the noise in that parking garage video, after the ICE starts, and I tend to have better high-frequency hearing (unless my wife is talking to me)... I suspect some compression is suppressing it.

I can hear the milling/grinding present in the soundcloud clip above. I'm pretty sure the service center will immediately call for that DU replacement.

 

[CHL]

Second record from 90 km/h to stop:

https://soundcloud.com/tags/bruits%20de%20transmission%20drive%20unit%20tms

 

[apacheguy]

Recorded this morning, second DU with only 2500 miles !
Definitively not a cable on contact with the motor.....

Oh wow, yeah I definitely don't have that sound. Mine is more of a high frequency whine. IMO, yours sounds like a wooden ball being jostled around inside of a spinning plastic sphere. Definitely way more annoying. Is that the same sound everyone here refers to as 'whirring'?

 

[yobigd20]

Oh wow, yeah I definitely don't have that sound. Mine is more of a high frequency whine. IMO, yours sounds like a wooden ball being jostled around inside of a spinning plastic sphere. Definitely way more annoying. Is that the same sound everyone here refers to as 'whirring'?

No I don't think so. I can't listen to that from this phone but by the way you describe it that sounds more like he "low drone hum" often described like a jet engine as it spins up and down during takeoff and landing. The "whirring" that I had mine replaced for was more of an electrical interference sound that increased and decreases in sync with the accelerator behind depressed and let go. Note that this specific whirring sound is different than the high pitch balloon squeal under full acceleration.

 

[islandbayy]

Does Tesla know who ken830 is in real life?

Tesla is like Pizza Hut. Only with Forum Usernames, while Pizza Hut knows everything about you via your phone number. They Know where you live, they know your name, phone number, and whats wrong with your car at all times And I'm "Sure" un-officially they know where your car is at all times too....

 

[mknox]

Tesla is like Pizza Hut. Only with Forum Usernames, while Pizza Hut knows everything about you via your phone number. They Know where you live, they know your name, phone number, and whats wrong with your car at all times And I'm "Sure" un-officially they know where your car is at all times too....

I mentioned once to my wife how they always seem to know me when I walk in the door at a SC, and she wondered if the car was somehow communicating my presence. I thought this was a bit far fetched, but then recalled hearing of some special WiFi at the SCs that the car will automatically connect to when you show up...

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

My take-away: We didn't know how to build Model S in the beginning and used early owners as guinea pigs. We now have a good quality team in place, but early on our quality sucked even though we were telling everyone that we were building the highest quality car.

Your interpretation is extremely negative, and reflects your own biases more accurately than it does Elon's intended meaning. This is the FIRST version of the FIRST mass-produced car from the FIRST factory of the FIRST successful auto manufacturing startup in 90 years. Of COURSE they were going to have the learning curve from hell, and build quality issues with the first cars! And the fact that they've had relatively few of them (and by that I mean far fewer issues than do most of the established automakers today) is a testament to Tesla's attention to detail and obsessive desire for high quality and great execution.

Did they have issues, problems, build quality defects? Yes, quite a few. Should ANY buyer of an early-production vehicle have understood that the probability of that was almost 100%? Absolutely. Buying a Model S within the first 5,000 units of production (at least) puts one in the squarely and solidly in the "early adopter" category, and your mileage WILL vary. Anything else is fantasy, and denial of reality, and is more the owner's fault than Tesla's for having unrealistic expectations.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

My take-away: We didn't know how to build Model S in the beginning and used early owners as guinea pigs. We now have a good quality team in place, but early on our quality sucked even though we were telling everyone that we were building the highest quality car.

Gilbert Passin, the VP in charge of assembly and production, said in early Tesla and factory documentaries that the Model S will be of incredible build quality unlike what the industry has ever seen. Now that Elon has admitted they weren't there in the beginning, how are we to believe anything that we are told today? Clearly, the story can change tomorrow.

Your interpretation is extremely negative, and reflects your own biases more accurately than it does Elon's intended meaning. This is the FIRST version of the FIRST mass-produced car from the FIRST factory of the FIRST successful auto manufacturing startup in 90 years. Of COURSE they were going to have the learning curve from hell, and build quality issues with the first cars! And the fact that they've had relatively few of them (and by that I mean far fewer issues than do most of the established automakers today) is a testament to Tesla's attention to detail and obsessive desire for high quality and great execution.

Did they have issues, problems, build quality defects? Yes, quite a few. Should ANY buyer of an early-production vehicle have understood that the probability of that was almost 100%? Absolutely. Buying a Model S within the first 5,000 units of production (at least) puts one in the squarely and solidly in the "early adopter" category, and your mileage WILL vary. Anything else is fantasy, and denial of reality, and is more the owner's fault than Tesla's for having unrealistic expectations.

I appreciate you replying to something I said a month ago. The point of my post, if you read what I stated subsequently, was that Elon should not make these kinds of statements because eventually it will hurt his credibility. I appreciate his honesty, but I don't like being told that this is the the best car ever made when I'm making the decision to purchase, but then after I've owned it a year to hear him say that they didn't really have a handle on quality when I bought the car and when I was told how great it is. This makes me wonder, the next time he says something, is he going to take it back a year later?

I appreciate you explaining Elon's intended meaning as well as what my expectations should be. In fact, I'm quite often accused of being a fanboy and Tesla apologist in these forums. I am one of the most understanding and forgiving guys when it comes to all things Tesla. But this one comment of his rubbed me the wrong way and I expressed an opinion about it. I appreciate your passion and reasoning, but you're preaching to the choir here.

 

[wycolo]

Fisker used massive military truck electric drive motors/rear axles, off the shelf by others, for their EV. What would the MS weigh with that kind of overkill?

Tesla evolved their own Roadster power unit into what we have today in the MS. A rational approach but with narrower margins of error.

--

 

[dsm363]

A car can still be the best car on the market and have quality control issues to start. If you are one of the large majority that didn't have any problems then that 'best car' statement can be accurate. If not then I understand the frustration.

What should Elon have said? 'We are shooting for the best car on the market but as with any new car from a new company you have to expect so issues....' Of course not. Their goal and they largely achieved it was to produce the best car on the market.