Autopilot/FSD Pedestrian Accident

[Zythryn]

Remember, it's proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" (generally considered to be >90%). Not "more probably than not" (51%). That's a high bar. Anyway, I'm not claiming to support any of these ideas, just playing devil's advocate!

That will be a possible argument.
What he said in the initial interview with police will be telling. Did he say he was unaware of striking anything? Or of striking a person?
Tough to claim he was unaware of striking anything when you repair your car.

Also, as I recall, the police report mentioned the person struck was on the hood of the car for about 1000 feet! If that is the case, that is 12 seconds at 60mph (I don't know how fast the car was going). I just can't see this going well for the guy.

 

[sleepydoc]

Remember, it's proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" (generally considered to be >90%). Not "more probably than not" (51%). That's a high bar. Anyway, I'm not claiming to support any of these ideas, just playing devil's advocate!

oh, I know! Evidently they have some hair samples they got from the driver's mirror - if those turn out to match the victim I don't think there's any credible way someone could claim they didn't know they hit a person. Either way, as a driver of a Tesla there's no way I can fathom someone making the claims he made.

The other factor at play for a defense lawyer is strategizing for a plea. Even if they know there's virtually no chance for acquittal, the more they can muddy the water and make the case even a little less iron clad the more likely they are to get favorable plea terms.

 

[azred]

What a crock. Hopefully he gets a lengthy prison sentence. (However when the Catholic Bishop of Phoenix O’Brien did almost the same thing twenty years ago, he also claimed he didn’t know he’d hit anyone though the windshield was caved in —and he never even reported the incident. The cops traced the car to his garage! The scumbag only got a few years of probation.)

 

[FASTTTT]

AP can detect pedestrians and will not crash into them.

That is incorrect, and a common misperception. while FSD has the ability to use full steering wheel deflection to execute turns, base autopilot is lane keeping only. this is a basic premise of the NHTSA complaint - "Autopilot would disengage rather than allow drivers to adjust their steering. This “discourages” drivers from staying involved in the task of driving, NHTSA said. “Crashes with no or late evasive action attempted by the driver were found across all Tesla hardware versions and crash circumstances.”

 

[Dewg]

That is incorrect, and a common misperception. while FSD has the ability to use full steering wheel deflection to execute turns, base autopilot is lane keeping only. this is a basic premise of the NHTSA complaint - "Autopilot would disengage rather than allow drivers to adjust their steering. This “discourages” drivers from staying involved in the task of driving, NHTSA said. “Crashes with no or late evasive action attempted by the driver were found across all Tesla hardware versions and crash circumstances.”

This is why Tesla needs to geo-fence AP. There shouldn't be pedestrians on the freeway where AP is designed to be used. AP should refuse to operate while on city streets / highways.

 

[Dan D.]

State Patrol: Tesla ruled out in hit-and-run that killed Mille Lacs-area doctor

State Patrol: Tesla ruled out in hit-and-run that killed Mille Lacs-area doctor

The patrol posted on social media that the vehicle, owned by an Edina man who was under investigation in the death of Dr. Cathy Donovan, has been ruled out.

www.kare11.com

As of March 13th, they are back to having no suspect. Bizarre that the Edina man was so clueless that he and his lawyer had to admit "He does not remember hitting Cathy Donovan with his Tesla, but said if he did he would have been alone in his Tesla, driving on 'auto-pilot,' not paying attention to the road, while doing things like checking his work emails."

Hopefully the Edina man will no longer use his Tesla in so reckless a way, but they no longer have any suspect for the fatal crash. Too bad that Tesla doesn't/can't find the car via any GPS history tracking (if such a thing exists). edit: assuming it was in fact a Tesla.

edit2: doesn't really explain why he had hair on the car, but I suppose it could be someone else's, or he ran over the lady subsequent to the collision...?
"Investigators have since collected hair off the SUV in three locations: the driver's side mirror, underneath near a front tire and on the front passenger tire"

 

[FASTTTT]

This is why Tesla needs to geo-fence AP. There shouldn't be pedestrians on the freeway where AP is designed to be used. AP should refuse to operate while on city streets / highways.

That would be awesome if they could code that, and probably save a lot of headache with Uncle Sam. or just give an IQ test to buyers to make sure they are smart enough to use the technology. LOL.

 

[stopcrazypp]

This is why Tesla needs to geo-fence AP. There shouldn't be pedestrians on the freeway where AP is designed to be used. AP should refuse to operate while on city streets / highways.

I disagree. There are highways that pass through slower zones with pedestrian crossings and it would be highly annoying for AP/autosteer to just cancel through those sections. It may also lead to mode confusion (which is one issue pointed out by the NHTSA).

Keeping in a lane is not an issue and is a red herring. The response to a pedestrian does not necessitate steering based avoidance. The quoted passage is only the Verge article's wording and analysis, it wasn't the NHTSA. The NHTSA says there are incidents where there was neither braking nor steering input.

The core issue is attention detection and adding steering avoidance wouldn't change that. Even though FSD can do steering based maneuvers, it's still a L2 system and needs the driver's constant attention.

We shouldn't let the few irresponsible users ruin the feature for everyone. Improving the attention detection system would allow the feature to remain useful for the responsible users, while forcing the irresponsible users to pay attention.

 

[JB47394]

We shouldn't let the few irresponsible users ruin the feature for everyone. Improving the attention detection system would allow the feature to remain useful for the responsible users, while forcing the irresponsible users to pay attention.

Irresponsible users ruin the roads for everyone. I'm of the opinion that the detection system should be full time, and that inattention should result in an escalating series of feature losses to the car.

One strike and you lose the car's entertainment features. Two strikes and your heating and cooling options are restricted. Certainly no heated/cooled seats and steering wheel. Three strikes and the car won't go over the speed limit. Four strikes and the car's lights and hazards are on all the time.

The idea is to degrade the experience of driving the car.

This degradation would apply to the car, not the driver, making any relationships the driver has with other people through the car have a greater impact. That means carpoolers, or just teenagers driving the family car.

It's not perfect. It won't happen. But it's the sort of thing that I think is needed.

Hilariously, the actual penalty for any inattention should be that the car goes into robotaxi mode.