Here's how to charge with 32A commando in UK

[yessuz]

I am looking at the best way of charging at my business premises, we are currently having a quote done for a Zappi. The installer has mentioned that we will need PME near the main incoming supply that will need to communicate with the Zappi located some 15 mtrs away on a seperate RCD Board. We have 3 phase so would like the option to charge at 11kw. I havent received the quote yet but I suspect it is going to be fairly expensive.

We do have a redundant 16A 3 Phase Commando socket located within 6mtr of where I am planning on charging the car. Could I just plug one of these in and start charger from that socket instead?

Tesla - Multi adapter Charger. 3 Phase 32A / 16A. 3 Pin and Commando EV Charger. Type 2

Type 2 Tesla 1 Phase to 3 Phase 6A - 32A Multi Socket EV charger. 6A, 8A, 10A, 13A, 16A, 20A, 32ACharge your Type 2 Tesla EV using multiple power sockets including the 3 Phase 32A and 16A Commando (CEE) socket, 1 Phase 32A and 16A single phase CEE socket and the 3 pin mains / household socket. Y

www.evchargingcablestore.com

Any help would be appreciated.

yes.

you need either this one in your link... or this one which is from Tesla.

Blue Adapter - 16A/32A

Combine with the Gen 2 Universal Mobile Connector to plug in at standard single-phase socket with higher power output. 16A Blue Adapter Plug Diameter: 42 mm Max charge rate: 3.7 kW Range per hour: 22 km with Model 3 17 km with Model S...

shop.tesla.com

I see that 16Amp adapter is out of stock, but 32 Amp is available. but price is significantly lower..

you just plug it into standard tesla mobile charger (instead of 3 pin adapter - these are interchangeable)

 

[piffmunday]

yes.

you need either this one in your link... or this one which is from Tesla.

Blue Adapter - 16A/32A

Combine with the Gen 2 Universal Mobile Connector to plug in at standard single-phase socket with higher power output. 16A Blue Adapter Plug Diameter: 42 mm Max charge rate: 3.7 kW Range per hour: 22 km with Model 3 17 km with Model S...

shop.tesla.com

I see that 16Amp adapter is out of stock, but 32 Amp is available. but price is significantly lower..

you just plug it into standard tesla mobile charger (instead of 3 pin adapter - these are interchangeable)

Thanks for that, the issue is that the outlet/socket is a 3 phase socket which is for a red plug (5pin) not blue which I believe is only single phase. Tesla do not do an adaptor for the 3 phase plugs

 

[arg]

The installer has mentioned that we will need PME near the main incoming supply that will need to communicate with the Zappi located some 15 mtrs away on a seperate RCD Board. We have 3 phase so would like the option to charge at 11kw. I havent received the quote yet but I suspect it is going to be fairly expensive.

Something must be lost in translation there. Zappi has integral PME fault protection, and even if you were using one that didn't, you would normally fit the PME fault protection nearby rather than back at the incoming supply. So I think you mean something other than PME here.

We do have a redundant 16A 3 Phase Commando socket located within 6mtr of where I am planning on charging the car. Could I just plug one of these in and start charger from that socket instead?

Tesla - Multi adapter Charger. 3 Phase 32A / 16A. 3 Pin and Commando EV Charger. Type 2

Type 2 Tesla 1 Phase to 3 Phase 6A - 32A Multi Socket EV charger. 6A, 8A, 10A, 13A, 16A, 20A, 32ACharge your Type 2 Tesla EV using multiple power sockets including the 3 Phase 32A and 16A Commando (CEE) socket, 1 Phase 32A and 16A single phase CEE socket and the 3 pin mains / household socket. Y

www.evchargingcablestore.com

Any help would be appreciated.

You could. This is likely to offer a marginally lower level of safety than a dedicated charging point, but arguably sufficient for occasional use.

If it's truly redundant, I'd be asking why the installer can't simply fit the Zappi to that existing circuit rather than doing all new work.

Note that older Tesla 'UMC' (as shipped with original Model S/X) did support 3-phase with appropriate adapters, but the more recent ones are single-phase only.

 

[piffmunday]

Something must be lost in translation there. Zappi has integral PME fault protection, and even if you were using one that didn't, you would normally fit the PME fault protection nearby rather than back at the incoming supply. So I think you mean something other than PME here.


You could. This is likely to offer a marginally lower level of safety than a dedicated charging point, but arguably sufficient for occasional use.

If it's truly redundant, I'd be asking why the installer can't simply fit the Zappi to that existing circuit rather than doing all new work.

Note that older Tesla 'UMC' (as shipped with original Model S/X) did support 3-phase with appropriate adapters, but the more recent ones are single-phase only

Hmmm, I am not sure then, I will get the quote through from them and then I will more information.

I am not sure if they are just putting money into the job for the sake of it because it is a business paying it.

If I did go down the cable route it would be shared with charger at home, I would be using it once or twice a week.

 

[Avendit]

Would a work place be happy with formally sanctioned UMC use ? Sounds like it could be a liability/insurance problem. I don't for a second think there will actually be a problem, but sounds like the sort of thing a business could get upright about. The need to do things 'proper' etc.

Possibly some short risk assessment showing UMC is suitably risk free and showing you have tought about it.

 

[Js1977]

Thanks for that, the issue is that the outlet/socket is a 3 phase socket which is for a red plug (5pin) not blue which I believe is only single phase. Tesla do not do an adaptor for the 3 phase plugs

You can get an adapter such as this https://www.essentialsupplies.co.uk...daptors/16a-415v-plug-to-16a-230v-socket.html

 

[piffmunday]

Would a work place be happy with formally sanctioned UMC use ? Sounds like it could be a liability/insurance problem. I don't for a second think there will actually be a problem, but sounds like the sort of thing a business could get upright about. The need to do things 'proper' etc.

Possibly some short risk assessment showing UMC is suitably risk free and showing you have tought about it.

That's a funny one to answer, it is my own business so essentially the risk is on me. I am already using the 3 pin charger and haven't really thought about the insurance implication of this, a prompt to look into it now.

 

[piffmunday]

You can get an adapter such as this https://www.essentialsupplies.co.uk...daptors/16a-415v-plug-to-16a-230v-socket.html

Thats an option, connected to the Tesla Commando adaptor but then it isnt much benefit over charging with a 3 pin socket.

 

[Js1977]

Thats an option, connected to the Tesla Commando adaptor but then it isnt much benefit over charging with a 3 pin socket.

It all depends how long you stay at the office for I suppose.

 

[Avendit]

That's a funny one to answer, it is my own business so essentially the risk is on me. I am already using the 3 pin charger and haven't really thought about the insurance implication of this, a prompt to look into it now.

Ah. For you, in your parking space and it's your car so you know not to chew through the cable, you are probably fine. I was thinking if a larger swathe of public or staff could interfere with the car or cable you may need to demonstrate adequate diligence by having the 'safest' option, not just a 'safe' option.

Just suck a 'electricity - don't chew' sign up and you'll be fine .

 

[WannabeOwner]

I am looking at the best way of charging at my business premises

Sounds like its just a single parking bay? If you have a need for multiple bays then we did that at work (I think we have 5 posts, with 2 x chargers on each; its a 3-Phase supply). Each charger has a QR code, and using an APP, logged in so that you are "known/recognised", it will start charging, for a visitor they can plug in and "ask at reception" for the charge to be started. It has the ability to re-charge the user (currently a Work Perk)

We got a grant for 50% of the installation cost.

If that is of interest I'll dig out what brand it is.

 

[Adopado]

Thanks for that, the issue is that the outlet/socket is a 3 phase socket which is for a red plug (5pin) not blue which I believe is only single phase. Tesla do not do an adaptor for the 3 phase plugs

Correct ... you were given incorrect advice from the OP. The Tesla portable charge point (UMC) is single phase only and can only use the blue single phase adapters at either 16amp or 32 amp. If you have a three phase commando (red) it will not be compatible. However, this indicates that you have ready access to a 3 phase supply which could be connected to a suitable 3 phase charge point e.g. a 3 phase Zappi

 

[speeka]

One thing I don't think has been mentioned in this thread, is that you need to inform the DNO that you are fitting a 32A charger, so that they can keep track on how their network is being loaded. If a lot of people start fitting and using DIY 32A commando sockets there might be some unintended consequences...

No you don’t. When you factor in diversity another 32a socket will not increase the overall demand by that much. If I remember correctly you use the full load of one 32a circuit & 40% of the remaining circuits when you are applying for ring circuits & although this would be a radial circuit I’d imagine it would still apply.
As most people will be charging their cars over night & with the use on the premises being at its lowest, there wouldn’t be any problems with DNO.
Your average ring power circuit is 32a! An oven is 40a, you wouldn’t inform the DNO if you installed a 2nd oven in your house either.

As for the open PEN faults that can occur, the danger is the possibility of a difference in potential, when the return has nowhere to go other than the general mass of the earth via the earthing & bonding. Especially likely if the premises supplied are sharing common non electrical services such as water & gas with other nearby premises. They will carry the return current to earth & be at above safe touch voltages & as your contact to earth is more likely, outside… there’s a real danger present & at least 4 people a year die from open PEN faults in the UK.

If you install your commando socket indoors, such as your front porch then the common RCD in your distribution board is sufficient to pass the regs.
You don’t need an RCD in a garage charging situation as the electricity is not being used outside, but RCD protection is so cheap now that you might as well put one in.

 

[Cardo]

No you don’t. When you factor in diversity another 32a socket will not increase the overall demand by that much. If I remember correctly you use the full load of one 32a circuit & 40% of the remaining circuits when you are applying for ring circuits & although this would be a radial circuit I’d imagine it would still apply.
As most people will be charging their cars over night & with the use on the premises being at its lowest, there wouldn’t be any problems with DNO.
Your average ring power circuit is 32a! An oven is 40a, you wouldn’t inform the DNO if you installed a 2nd oven in your house either.

As for the open PEN faults that can occur, the danger is the possibility of a difference in potential, when the return has nowhere to go other than the general mass of the earth via the earthing & bonding. Especially likely if the premises supplied are sharing common non electrical services such as water & gas with other nearby premises. They will carry the return current to earth & be at above safe touch voltages & as your contact to earth is more likely, outside… there’s a real danger present & at least 4 people a year die from open PEN faults in the UK.

If you install your commando socket indoors, such as your front porch then the common RCD in your distribution board is sufficient to pass the regs.
You don’t need an RCD in a garage charging situation as the electricity is not being used outside, but RCD protection is so cheap now that you might as well put one in.

Depending on the circumstances, DNO needs to be contacted beforehand or notified after the fact. Here’s the flowchart they have provided.

https://www.energynetworks.org/assets/images/Resource%20library/LCT_Combined%20EV%20&%20HP%20Process%20v5.5.pdf