FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[HitchHiker71]

If there’s nobody creeping up behind you, you should find that it generally will stay in the left lane. When someone comes up behind you and there’s nobody in front of you, it should get over. (This is how I usually drive).

Highway logic isn’t using the new neural net stuff yet.

Yeah - except in a number of northeastern states - this is literally illegal - as there are highway signs clearly stating to stay out of the left lane unless you are passing. In MD state, I've literally seen people pulled over by police for this issue alone. No logic should be staying in the left lane by design - regardless of the circumstances - or the logic should know which state it is functioning in or be watching road signs that explicitly state not to do this.

 

[TK211X]

Burned my check and nothing. Guess we are staged for 12.4

 

[zoomer0056]

May be if it sees slow going cars it will reduce the speed to be with them, rather than look at fast cars and go faster.

Maybe this is as designed but it's not how I want it to work. Auto Set Speed Offset, I don't know how it's supposed to work and used it just once while on the FSDS v12.3.6 free trial. It's better to travel at the speed it's set to travel at and slow down for safety reasons instead of traveling based on other cars' speed. The car shouldn't keep up or slow down with surrounding traffic. This could cause either a full stop on the highway or a race condition. Of course the car should not run into any other car.

 

[Daniel in SD]

There must be another advantage that justifies the big investment in the tech. Or did they just not think this through?

It was brought up because @HitchHiker71 suggested that the Tesla Robotaxi would initially be L3. Remote operation would allow Tesla to operate many robotaxis per driver.
The only other application I can think of is delivering a rental car to someone or paying lower wages to drivers by outsourcing them to other countries. It seems like it couldn't possibly be safe to me...

​

 

[JulienW]

Burned my check and nothing. Guess we are staged for 12.4

We are being kept of 24.3.25 because when 12.4.x comes out it will be on 24.3.x or 24.9.x and if we move to 24.14.x we will be past it.

 

[dachshund]

If you're on an interstate highway, the car will behave like that for anyone because it's using the V11 heuristic software. But on state highways and such, V12 will be running, and it will choose an "appropriate" speed. It's frequently wrong, both high and low, leading to all these complaints against it.

I share the fear that bringing V12 to the interstates will mess up the most useful capability of FSD. In general, when Tesla implements an Auto Anything, it's inferior to my doing it myself. Not just different, but clearly inferior. Auto lights, auto wipers, auto lane selection, auto speed selection, etc. Whenever I engage FSD, I turn off as much of the automatics as I can, waiting for the day when they do it as well as I could.

Can anyone confirm this? If I’m on a 3-digit freeway it’ll have v11, otherwise it’s v12?

 

[enemji]

I passed under an overhead School Zone sign with flashing yellow light. The car slowed down a few mph, but nowhere close to the Zone speed limit. Disengagement required.

Never seen an overhead school speed limit sign before, and I am sure neither has the Tesla AI team. Opportunity to learn/train.

 

[Mardak]

Interesting that we may see highways implemented on 12.5. Of course he doesn't mention ASS/Banish/Parking Lots which would be required for it to be a TRUE Single Stack but that didn't stop 11.x from being called a Single Stack.

Yeah, curious if Tesla treats parking lots separately similar to how highways seem to have been intentionally separate as the 12.x behaviors so far for both those situations do seem worse than regular city streets, e.g., wrong turns inside/out-of parking lots and speed/lane control at higher speeds. Hopefully 12.4 in the meantime brings some parking lot and highway improvements with the 5x-10x as opposed to waiting for 12.5 to focus on those situations for single stack.

 

[sleepydoc]

Maybe this is as designed but it's not how I want it to work. Auto Set Speed Offset, I don't know how it's supposed to work and used it just once while on the FSDS v12.3.6 free trial. It's better to travel at the speed it's set to travel at and slow down for safety reasons instead of traveling based on other cars' speed. This could cause either a full stop on the highway or a race condition. Of course the car should not run into any other car.

The problem with speed is it’s like everything else with driving - it’s very straight forward until you think about it.

Speed limit is 55 so I drive 55. Except everyone else drives 60 and cops won’t pull you over for going 5 over around here so I go 60. Except there’s a line of cars stopped on the exit ramp and it’s not safe to be driving 60 right next to stopped cars in case someone pulls out so I drop my speed to 40. If it’s raining I’ll go slower. If it’s freezing rain I go a lot slower. If it’s snowing I’ll go slower. Then there’s an open stretch of highway where everyone drives 15 MPH over the limit but I only want to go 5 over. Then I get off the freeway and I’m driving in the city and there are a ton of people so I actually go a bit under the limit so I have time to stop if someone steps out….

In previous versions, FSD would simply go to the limit plus the offset you set and you could dial it down if you wanted. Essentially you were making a fairly important decision for the computer in regards to proper speed. Now they’re trying to have FSD actually adjust the speed based on neural net training and it turns out it’s not at all easy. Plus everyone has their own opinion on how fast they should go and there are regional variations on top of that.

 

[OldManCan]

'23 MYLR on 24.3.25. Consistently seeing this issue with motorcycles cutting lanes causing significant braking. Anyone else noticed this?

Example : I'm going at 65 mph and traffic flowing about the same speed. Out of nowhere a bike shows up speeding in between two lanes say at 80 mph. As the bike is overtaking me, for a brief moment my car thinks its going to collide with this vehicle and hits the brakes. Hope somehow this gets fixed once the freeway stack gets merged with the AI code (12.5?).

 

[Mardak]

Can anyone confirm this? If I’m on a 3-digit freeway it’ll have v11, otherwise it’s v12?

Depends on the highway. Interstates are likely 11.x, but US101 sometimes has at-grade crossings that is treated as city streets so 12.x. If you have Automatic Set Speed Offset enabled, check for "AUTO" to confirm it's 12.x as it'll switch to numeric set speed with 11.x. Additionally, 11.x will show messages for lane changes, e.g., faster lane, follow route.

 

[LSDTester#1]

'23 MYLR on 24.3.25. Consistently seeing this issue with motorcycles cutting lanes causing significant braking. Anyone else noticed this?

Example : I'm going at 65 mph and traffic flowing about the same speed. Out of nowhere a bike shows up speeding in between two lanes say at 80 mph. As the bike is overtaking me, for a brief moment my car thinks its going to collide with this vehicle and hits the brakes. Hope somehow this gets fixed once the freeway stack gets merged with the AI code (12.5?).

Not many states allow splitting lanes like California does. People do that too in reacting to a careless lane split. I get splitting in stopped or slowed traffic, but 80 mph traffic?

 

[OldManCan]

Not many states allow splitting lanes like California does. People do that too in reacting to a careless lane split. I get splitting in stopped or slowed traffic, but 80 mph traffic?

Totally. We have lots of organ donors living on borrowed time. Not sure what are the parameters here in CA for legal lane splitting vis a vis speed but either way they could be ticketed for going over the speed limit.

 

[zoomer0056]

The problem with speed is it’s like everything else with driving - it’s very straight forward until you think about it.

Speed limit is 55 so I drive 55. Except everyone else drives 60 and cops won’t pull you over for going 5 over around here so I go 60. Except there’s a line of cars stopped on the exit ramp and it’s not safe to be driving 60 right next to stopped cars in case someone pulls out so I drop my speed to 40. If it’s raining I’ll go slower. If it’s freezing rain I go a lot slower. If it’s snowing I’ll go slower. Then there’s an open stretch of highway where everyone drives 15 MPH over the limit but I only want to go 5 over. Then I get off the freeway and I’m driving in the city and there are a ton of people so I actually go a bit under the limit so I have time to stop if someone steps out….

In previous versions, FSD would simply go to the limit plus the offset you set and you could dial it down if you wanted. Essentially you were making a fairly important decision for the computer in regards to proper speed. Now they’re trying to have FSD actually adjust the speed based on neural net training and it turns out it’s not at all easy. Plus everyone has their own opinion on how fast they should go and there are regional variations on top of that.

Yup, I agree with all that and I would do all that with the thumb wheel if using FSD. But I'll never purchase FSD as I like to drive. TACC works great and let's me control it.

Edit: The car is my puppet. "Obey your master" says Metallica.

 

[spev18]

'23 MYLR on 24.3.25. Consistently seeing this issue with motorcycles cutting lanes causing significant braking. Anyone else noticed this?

Example : I'm going at 65 mph and traffic flowing about the same speed. Out of nowhere a bike shows up speeding in between two lanes say at 80 mph. As the bike is overtaking me, for a brief moment my car thinks its going to collide with this vehicle and hits the brakes. Hope somehow this gets fixed once the freeway stack gets merged with the AI code (12.5?).

Had literally exact same issue although was in heavy rush hour traffic. Driving along bumper to bumper on I-76 with Philly drivers doing about 40mph, then some motorcycle comes flying down riding the center white line and FSD slams on the brakes and I almost get rear ended. I don't know how they really solve for this because the motorcycle is clearly being an idiot and way too close. Just one of those edge cases that maybe will get worked out in the future. I disengage and simply report back why via the voice memo. Can't really fault FSD but damn the reaction was swift and harsh.

 

[OldManCan]

Had literally exact same issue although was in heavy rush hour traffic. Driving along bumper to bumper on I-76 with Philly drivers doing about 40mph, then some motorcycle comes flying down riding the center white line and FSD slams on the brakes and I almost get rear ended. I don't know how they really solve for this because the motorcycle is clearly being an idiot and way too close. Just one of those edge cases that maybe will get worked out in the future. I disengage and simply report back why via the voice memo. Can't really fault FSD but damn the reaction was swift and harsh.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree this a tough edge case to resolve. Will see what happens after 12.5 comes along. Fingers crossed

 

[Mardak]

ps : He says intervention - not disengagement

Tesla's usage of intervention seems to include braking and steering and not necessarily how we use it here to focus on accelerator, turn signal, etc. (…although confusingly/consistently, our "intervention" usage doesn't result in "Autopilot Disengaged. What Happened?" voice note message.) E.g., from AI Day 2022 Elon Musk said:

The fundamental metric to optimize against is how many miles between a necessary intervention. So just massively improving how many miles the car can drive in full autonomy before an intervention is required that is safety critical. That's the fundamental metric that we're measuring every week, and we're making radical improvements on that.​

 

[PianoAl]

On a 25 mph small road near me, V12 consistently slows at two locations. At these locations there's writing on the road. "SCHOOL" at one and "STOP AHEAD" at the other. V11 never slowed.

Anyone else notice that?

 

[FSDtester#1]

We are being kept of 24.3.25 because when 12.4.x comes out it will be on 24.3.x or 24.9.x and if we move to 24.14.x we will be past it.

Agreed, but something tells me we might get .14
Something feels different... I am probably wrong though.

 

[Tronguy]

Can anyone confirm this? If I’m on a 3-digit freeway it’ll have v11, otherwise it’s v12?

The general rule is that if one is one a limited access highway (on ramps, off ramps, no lights, stop signs, or right-angle entry local roads) one gets a V11-like experience. As has been previously mentioned, one can tell from:

• The "tentacle" leading straight ahead of the car shifts size abruptly
• If Auto Speed is set, the word, "Auto" changes to the car's current idea of the local speed limit

Not necessary to be an "I-NNN" anything. The Garden State Parkway doesn't have a number. And I've seen V11 on a non-interstate that switched to V12 when said road went from limited access to local. And back. The Saw Mill Parkway in NY does that, I think.

When going from local roads to limited access, the switch-over occurs as one goes off the on-ramp to a travel lane. I haven't looked at it closely when it goes off, but I think it switches to V12 shortly after getting off the limited access travel lane.

The only other thing that I've noticed on two different cars with V12 was that, when on a limited access highway, the speed limit has been set 10% high: 60 in a 55 zone, 65 or 66 in a 60 zone, 72 in a 65 zone, 77 (!) in a 70 zone, and 82 in a 75 zone (thank you, Texas.) That last limit, 82, gives one very little headroom if one wants to goose it a bit for some reason or other. If one exceeds 85, then it's No More FSD For You, at least until one pulls over and parks for a bit. That got me and the SO at different times on the eclipse trip to Dallas last month .