Xcel Time of Use Rates in Colorado

[MorrisonHiker]

Here's the Excel spreadsheet. All the inputs are in the blue outlined area. You can input your usage as kw in each time period for the month or as an hourly average through the month (use the dropdown next to the value). The peak values must be greater than the averages (they'll highlight red if they are not). They're only used in the Peak Demand plan calculations. Each plan's values include two sets of cost figures: the first is without the fixed dollar costs that you pay regardless of usage; the second includes the fixed items so it should be very close to what your actual bill would be (except taxes and franchise fees). If you want to include the windsource charge, add 0.015 to "Other per kwh charges" in the constants area.

Hopefully my understanding of the plans is correct and all the numbers are right. Note that it doesn't handle any kind of solar over-production; that seemed difficult to try to model.

Thanks for the spreadsheet. I played around with the numbers a bit and tried to figure out what my peak, shoulder and off-peak usage would be. With the TOU plan, it looks like I would only save $2 to $5 a month with the winter billing rates. With the summer rates, it looks like I'd save between $30 and $40 a month. With the Peak Demand plan, my bill would go up $75 to $90 a month.

I was hoping the savings for the TOU plan would be larger but I'll give it a try and see if it actually results in a lower bill. At any rate, it will be nice to have the bridge meter and get a more accurate idea of my energy usage throughout the month.

 

[Zaxxon]

I was hoping the savings for the TOU plan would be larger but I'll give it a try and see if it actually results in a lower bill. At any rate, it will be nice to have the bridge meter and get a more accurate idea of my energy usage throughout the month.

For me it looks like I would save around $10/mo on average in winter, while summer would be about the same as it is now. Since in Xcel speak winter is twice as long as summer, I'll take that. And I, too, am looking forward to getting a little more insight into my usage.

 

[MrClown]

I'm glad the spreadsheet is helping people figure things out. Here's the updated version that has the bug mentioned earlier fixed. I wonder if the mods can delete or update the one I previously posted to avoid confusion.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

For me it looks like I would save around $10/mo on average in winter, while summer would be about the same as it is now. Since in Xcel speak winter is twice as long as summer, I'll take that. And I, too, am looking forward to getting a little more insight into my usage.

My brother in Kansas has a smart(er) meter that provides lots of data concerning usage. When I visited in December, he was immediately able to see the spike in usage when I charged my car on his 6-50 outlet. While I already had a pretty good idea of the number of kWh used, it was nice to match that with what he was seeing on his meter. While he didn't care much about the increased usage, I did use the data to pay him back for the electricity used.

I'm glad the spreadsheet is helping people figure things out. Here's the updated version that has the bug mentioned earlier fixed. I wonder if the mods can delete or update the one I previously posted to avoid confusion.

Thanks for the updated version.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I tried plugging in some numbers to see how bad the Peak Demand rate would affect my bill if we charge the Teslas during peak hours. The bill would triple! That's definitely an incentive NOT to charge during peak hours!

 

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, the peak rate plan is pretty clearly not for EV owners. Unless you have a wk057-level PV system, at least.

 

[Zaxxon]

Dear <REDACTED>,


Congratulations! You've been selected to participate in our Time of Use Pricing plan. You'll soon have the opportunity to save on your energy bill based on how much and when you use energy in your home.

Please save this email for your records and to access pertinent information.


Remember, in order to maximize savings on this plan, you will need to shift your energy usage to less expensive time periods (nights and weekends). See the chart below for additional information.




Note: Prices reflected below are inclusive of all riders and adjustments.

Next steps:


We will let you know when your new bridge meter has been installed within the next 60 days. You don't need to be home when we install your new meter. But if you have any issues that our installation technician needs to be aware of when accessing your meter, like a locked gate or to watch for a dog, please call us at 800.895.4999 and let us know.


Look for a note that your technician will hang on your door when your new meter is installed. Your new rate will initiate the next business day after installation. You do not need to take any additional action at this time.


If you have additional questions about this plan, visit our FAQ page for more information.


Changing your behavior can reduce your bill


Changing your energy habits may take time, and you may not see savings on your first bill. That's why we encourage you to participate for several months. The more you understand and adapt your energy consumption, the more you can save.


All customers who participate in this rate plan may opt out of the program within the first six months (or choose to switch to the Peak Demand Pricing plan). After this initial six-month grace period, customers must remain on the TOU pricing for a minimum of 12 months.


Still have questions? We're here to help now and will be for the duration of the rate plan. Visit us at www.xcelenergy.com/residentialrates, email us at [email protected], or call us at 800.895.4999.


Thank you again for your participation!

 

[nwdiver]

Yeah, the peak rate plan is pretty clearly not for EV owners. Unless you have a wk057-level PV system, at least.

??? I would think that peak rate pricing is exactly what EV owners would want. EV load is the easiest to shift to off-peak and take advantage of lower rates...

 

[Zaxxon]

??? I would think that peak rate pricing is exactly what EV owners would want. EV load is the easiest to shift to off-peak and take advantage of lower rates...

But if you're charging overnight (eg with no PV production offsetting the high power usage), you're raising your demand charge no matter that it's happening overnight. If you can shift to off-peak and *also* charge at a low rate, then perhaps it can work out well. But boy, that peak plan looks like a trap to me. Screw up and run the AC during peak time on a cloudy day even with no other usage and your month's bill is shot.

Of course, with a giant PV system and some Powerwalls the situation is different. My quoted comment was directed at the general case--an EV owner who's not watching his/her usage rate and timing like a hawk.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

@Zaxxon , it looks like we both were accepted to this limited plan (10,000 customers for 2017). A third of the customers who sign up will receive the new meters but won't actually be changed to the TOU plan since they are running it on a trial basis for the next three years and they need a control group.

??? I would think that peak rate pricing is exactly what EV owners would want. EV load is the easiest to shift to off-peak and take advantage of lower rates...

The Peak Demand raises the rates based on the maximum kWh usage in an hour...so if an EV owner had multiple EVs (as we do in my household), the base rate is jacked up a lot. If we accidentally charged for just ONE hour during peak hours during the entire month then that ONE hour is used to set a multiplier which greatly increases the bill. Using the spreadsheet, it looks like a regular or TOU $160 bill could easily jump to $480 under the Peak Demand plan. No thanks!

 

[MrClown]

The Peak Demand raises the rates based on the maximum kWh usage in an hour...so if an EV owner had multiple EVs (as we do in my household), the base rate is jacked up a lot. If we accidentally charged for just ONE hour during peak hours during the entire month then that ONE hour is used to set a multiplier which greatly increases the bill. Using the spreadsheet, it looks like a regular or TOU $160 bill could easily jump to $480 under the Peak Demand plan. No thanks!

One EV charging at night at 40 amps would be a 9.6 kwh peak hour but let's round to 10 kwh for other misc. loads. That overnight peak would only apply to the distribution demand charge, the $3.65 one, so only $36. If you use 1000 kwh in a month (say 625, 300, and 75 in the three periods) and keep your 2-6pm peak to 1kwh you would come out ahead (barely) of any of the other plans. You could also turn down the car to something less than 40 amps to reduce that $36. If you use more electricity (without increasing your peak) it gets even better from there.

Two cars - that's a harder sell unless you can time the charges to not overlap.

I think the biggest problem for me is running appliances. There are times especially on weekends where we will be using the stove, oven, clothes dryer, and in summer the AC will likely fire up at some point. That's where the demand charges would really come into play. If you don't have kids you can probably spread those things out more but there's no way I'd get my household on board to coordinate that consistently. And consistency is key - you can't mess that up even once or you've lost potentially a few months worth of savings.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

One EV charging at night at 40 amps would be a 9.6 kwh peak hour but let's round to 10 kwh for other misc. loads. That overnight peak would only apply to the distribution demand charge, the $3.65 one, so only $36. If you use 1000 kwh in a month (say 625, 300, and 75 in the three periods) and keep your 2-6pm peak to 1kwh you would come out ahead (barely) of any of the other plans. You could also turn down the car to something less than 40 amps to reduce that $36. If you use more electricity (without increasing your peak) it gets even better from there.

Two cars - that's a harder sell unless you can time the charges to not overlap.

I think the biggest problem for me is running appliances. There are times especially on weekends where we will be using the stove, oven, clothes dryer, and in summer the AC will likely fire up at some point. That's where the demand charges would really come into play. If you don't have kids you can probably spread those things out more but there's no way I'd get my household on board to coordinate that consistently. And consistency is key - you can't mess that up even once or you've lost potentially a few months worth of savings.

We have two Teslas charging daily and they both charge at the same time in the morning so that the battery in each is warmed up right before our commutes. We also have plans on acquiring a third EV so there is the potential we'll could reach close to 30 kW peak usage if everyone charges as the same time.

Yeah, I know it would be possible to reduce peak load, scheduling the cars to charge at different times, etc. but the problem is that one could possibly/accidentally charge during the peak time and that could lead to some huge peak distribution charges and peak G&T demand charges. Using my numbers for a month such as 1000 kWh non-peak, 333 kWh shoulder and 166 kWh peak, the TOU bill would be $169.71. If using the Peak Demand plan and someone accidentally charged for one hour during peak, the bill for the same kWh for the month would be $482.52. While I would do my best to not charge during peak hours, imagine if you accidentally charged during peak and you had 3 EVs. That would be close to 30 kW peak load and if you didn't find out soon enough, it could greatly affect the electric bill.

 

[MrClown]

Absolutely. The risk with the peak demand plan is potentially huge depending on your circumstances.

I'm also accepted into the TOU plan so that makes three of us. In theory, one of us should end up in the control group. Since there's not that much to be saved with the TOU plan anyway I wouldn't be super disappointed except that I'd actually be paying more for that meter with no real benefit.

 

[nwdiver]

The Peak Demand raises the rates based on the maximum kWh usage in an hour...

Ah... I misunderstood... I thought this was TOU. I didn't realize there was a demand component. That is dumb. Demand fees for residential use are a terrible idea. It's too sporadic to be useful. There needs to be two criteria for utility fees; 1) Fair payment for use of grid infrastructure. 2) Encourage better time utilization of grid assets. Demand fees fail the second criteria miserably and do poorly with the first. There shouldn't be a penalty for quickly charging your car during off-peak hours... that's insane.

There needs to be an incentive to shift load from on-peak to off-peak. Arbitrary demand fees are counter-productive. TOU is the best way to go.

 

[Zaxxon]

Ah... I misunderstood... I thought this was TOU. I didn't realize there was a demand component. That is dumb. Demand fees for residential use are a terrible idea. It's too sporadic to be useful. There needs to be two criteria for utility fees; 1) Fair payment for use of grid infrastructure. 2) Encourage better time utilization of grid assets. Demand fees fail the second criteria miserably and do poorly with the first. There shouldn't be a penalty for quickly charging your car during off-peak hours... that's insane.

There needs to be an incentive to shift load from on-peak to off-peak. Arbitrary demand fees are counter-productive. TOU is the best way to go.

Just to clarify for you--this thread is *largely* discussing the new TOU option opening up in testing by Xcel. There is another optional rate plan that includes the peak charge component, which we've mentioned a few times. I don't think anyone who's participated thus far intends to sign up for that one--we're all going TOU.

 

[MrClown]

Just to clarify for you--this thread is *largely* discussing the new TOU option opening up in testing by Xcel. There is another optional rate plan that includes the peak charge component, which we've mentioned a few times. I don't think anyone who's participated thus far intends to sign up for that one--we're all going TOU.

There was one person early on in this thread who appears to have signed up for the demand plan. I think they might not have understood that one of the demand charges applies 24/7 (I didn't initially either), or maybe they'll be spreading out their usage really well.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Absolutely. The risk with the peak demand plan is potentially huge depending on your circumstances.

I'm also accepted into the TOU plan so that makes three of us. In theory, one of us should end up in the control group. Since there's not that much to be saved with the TOU plan anyway I wouldn't be super disappointed except that I'd actually be paying more for that meter with no real benefit.

Did you get the same email that @Zaxxon and I got? The way it is worded, I would think it means we're actually going to receive the TOU rates...so maybe we got lucky (?) and didn't end up in the control group. Like you said though, the savings aren't huge so it won't make much difference either way. The new bridge meters should provide some interesting data and it will hopefully lead to better plans and smart meters in 2020 and beyond.

 

[MrClown]

Did you get the same email that @Zaxxon and I got? The way it is worded, I would think it means we're actually going to receive the TOU rates...so maybe we got lucky (?) and didn't end up in the control group. Like you said though, the savings aren't huge so it won't make much difference either way. The new bridge meters should provide some interesting data and it will hopefully lead to better plans and smart meters in 2020 and beyond.

I did get the same email and agree about the wording but I'm not convinced that the control group decision has already been made. I hope so though. I will be interested in the data from the meter regardless. I wonder what the billing will look like particularly with solar overproduction mixed in there.

 

[theheff]

Well that was fast... one week after being approved, the tech came by and installed the new meter for TOU today.

 

[SageBrush]

TOU: home on PV
TOU with Demand charges (maybe): Home on PV+battery

It seems silly for the utility to start demand charges at 0 kW when an average home with a 200 Amp panel has the utility presuming up to 48 kW load.