Work on lighting lift gate appliqué begins

[Danal]

parked -

'Tesla'

then

'S'

possibly with a scroll back and forth, night rider style, of the 'TESLA' first then just an 'S'

So the first suggestion would be: TESLA, __S__, repeat. In any color. I like it. Fade in/out, or cut? Two colors, definitely, cause a given person could choose the same or different colors.

I may not be understanding that last bit... letters themselves cannot move. They are physically cut-out of the factory applique. Only the lighting behind a letter or letters can change. Given that, "Knight Rider" scrolling is already implemented in the prototype.

- - - Updated - - -

Does "Running Light" correspond to the DRL? If I drive without turning ON the DRL, does that mean the word TESLA will not be illuminated medium red (in other words, it would be No Display (dark))?

Hmmm... I may have created confusion with the word "Running Light". The "Daytime Running Lights" on the front of the car will have no interaction with the Applique. Perhaps the term "Parking Light" would be better. I mean the red lights on the back of the car that are on when the "lights are on", but not braking, not turning, and not reversing. I've edited the table to say "Parking Lights".

And, to directly answer your question: As shown on the 1st row of the table, when all other lights on the back of the car are off, the applique would also be off (unless overridden by the bluetooth app).

Please feel free to suggest an alternative behavior.

 

[NJ Plugin]

Daniel,
Not sure if you had it above...but what about for the Emergency Flasher (not sure if this is both the R and L flashers at the same time)?

Two suggestions would be TESLA, TESLA, TESLA or S, ESL, TESLA (no lighter red, possibly would make the others looks brighter).

Possibly do the same for in white, while parked, via bluetooth.

 

[swegman]

Danal said "when all other lights on the back of the car are off, the applique would also be off (unless overridden by the bluetooth app)." By this statement, it appears the applque would NOT be illuminated when driving the car during the daytime without braking, turning or reversing. The original intent of the applique was to illuminate the word TESLA so that drivers who are behind you could easily identify the make of the car, while providing an additional indication of braking when stopping (by having the word TESLA brighten when the bakes are applied). It seems this will no longer be the case during daytime driving.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Learned today that the appliqués are in very short supply. I may be able to get 5 in a few weeks but not 10. So the challenge we face will be obtaining enough appliqués from Tesla to meet demand.

Once we have an installed, operating prototype and know the final cost, we'll start taking deposits and create a waiting list on that basis. In the meantime I'll keep building inventory of the appliqués as they are available.

Maybe you could get people to send their old ones back to you for "recycling". Sort of a core deposit setup.

 

[Danal]

Danal said "when all other lights on the back of the car are off, the applique would also be off (unless overridden by the bluetooth app)." By this statement, it appears the applque would NOT be illuminated when driving the car during the daytime without braking, turning or reversing. The original intent of the applique was to illuminate the word TESLA so that drivers who are behind you could easily identify the make of the car, while providing an additional indication of braking when stopping (by having the word TESLA brighten when the bakes are applied). It seems this will no longer be the case during daytime driving.

It can be illuminated when driving with all other lights off. That's exactly why I'm posting everything here.

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Daniel,
Not sure if you had it above...but what about for the Emergency Flasher (not sure if this is both the R and L flashers at the same time)?

Two suggestions would be TESLA, TESLA, TESLA or S, ESL, TESLA (no lighter red, possibly would make the others looks brighter).

Possibly do the same for in white, while parked, via bluetooth.

Emergency Flasher: My original instinct is to do nothing in this situation, because hazard flashers should only be used during emergencies, and during an emergency the most recognizable pattern to other drivers is flashing lights on the "corners" of the car. I can foresee an extra flashing light in the center causing issues. Simple example: The accident/incident that prompts the use of flashers also disables the left rear light assembly on the Tesla. An approaching driver, at night, sees two flashing lights from a distance and assumes those two lights define the width of the car. Then they hit the Tesla in between the disabled light and the center light.

And... if someone really wanted to do this, the various BlueTooth options are always there.

- - - Updated - - -

Given suggestions already received, here is the 1.1 proposed behavior "out of the box":

Update from 1.0:

1 - Terminology changed to "Parking Lights"
2 - When all other lights are off, TESLA glows medium bright red.
3 - Clarified brake/turn-signal combination. Brake overrides turn signal.

Proposed 1.1 Behavior for TESLA Applique Controller "out of box"
Parking Lights	Brake Lights	L Turn Signal	R Turn Signal	Reverse Lights	Resulting Behavior of Logo Applique
					TESLA all Med Bright Red, constant, no animation.
Y					TESLA all Med Bright Red, constant, no animation.
	Y	?	?		_____, TESLA, all flash together between black (off) and Bright Red. Flash frequency corresponds to "G" force sensed from braking. Note: Not pedal pressure, actual 'de-celleration' of car. Brake overrides turn signal.
Y	Y	?	?		TESLA, TESLA all flash together between Med Bright Red (running lights) and Bright Red. Flash frequency corresponds to "G" force sensed from braking. Note: Not pedal pressure, actual 'de-celleration' of car. Brake overrides turn signal.
			Y		_____, T____, TE___, TES__, TESL_ TESLA, then repeat, all Bright Red.
		Y			____A, ___LA, __SLA, _ESLA, TESLA, then repeat, all Bright Red
Y			Y		TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, then repeat.
Y		Y			TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, then repeat.
?	?	?	?	Y	White Letters: TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, TESLA, repeats with a longer pause when all are illuminated bright white.

 

[SUPRKAR]

Danal said "when all other lights on the back of the car are off, the applique would also be off (unless overridden by the bluetooth app)." By this statement, it appears the applque would NOT be illuminated when driving the car during the daytime without braking, turning or reversing. The original intent of the applique was to illuminate the word TESLA so that drivers who are behind you could easily identify the make of the car, while providing an additional indication of braking when stopping (by having the word TESLA brighten when the bakes are applied). It seems this will no longer be the case during daytime driving.

I think this mod has grown from its original intent. That said I also feel it is worth the effort to run a constant hot wire from the front of the car to the lift gate to power the applique. I have done this to power my rear camera and it is a pain in the a$$ but can be done with a little patience. It will be worth it to get all the features possible. Also it may be possible to tap into the charge port to have it light when charging.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I think you got it. didn't mean letters scrolling back and forth (not possible with the cutout method)

maybe something like the last row of the proposed 1.1 but the all illuminated 'TESLA' would fade out then just the 'S' would come back maybe red (or whatever color) since currently this is for Model S'
wouldn't work as well/ make sense for the X

 

[Brightonuk]

This sounds like something a kid would put on a Camaro or Michael Knight Drove in 1980

Keep it classy not gimmicky; Applique lit with headlights, bright with brake lights same as I have the T wired.

As for the grief of running a circuit from the headlights I had the rear T wired via the headlights and it took the shop a about an hour to run the wire

 

[Danal]

I think you got it. didn't mean letters scrolling back and forth (not possible with the cutout method)

maybe something like the last row of the proposed 1.1 but the all illuminated 'TESLA' would fade out then just the 'S' would come back maybe red (or whatever color) since currently this is for Model S'
wouldn't work as well/ make sense for the X

AHA! I get it now. Excellent. Very cool idea to switch between TESLA and S for a Model S. This could be a Bluetooth Configurable behavior, to fade between the two, or Knight Rider scroll when all the letters are on, perhaps stopping on the S for a while and then scrolling onward, and/or some other combinations. I will play with it.

Good stuff Z!! Those extraterrestrial guys just think different, it is like they are not from around here, ya know?

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General Update: I received an already cut applique from Artsci today. I have already built a working prototype of the controller and NeoPixels that exhibits all (or most) of the behaviors we've discussed above. I will combine the two and shoot some video to post here over the next day or two.

 

[swegman]

Before you get too crazy with things, step back and think about warranty issues depending on what you do. Some people are now suggesting tying into the chargeport to determine whether the car is charging in order to change the color and/or display format of the word TESLA. What happens when the chargeport fails and Tesla asserts that the failure of the chargeport was due to the interfacing of the applique electronics to the chargeport. Similarly, what if you connect to, for example, the CAN bus and something then breaks. Tesla may deny warranty coverage.

For people that think this is unlikely, numerous owners (including myself) have had chargeports replaced. I also purchased TPMS sensors from Tesla to be installed in TSportline wheels I purchased. Unfortunately, one of the sensors was flakey and would drop communication with the receiver. Tesla denied warranty coverage on the sensor on the ground that it was installed in an unauthorized (non-Tesla) wheel. I had to go up two chain of commands before they agreed to replace the sensor under warranty. The sensor was only a $90 item (at the time). A chargeport (or other electronic item on the car) likely costs much more. How would you prove the failure was unrelated to the mod? Do you want to get into a pissing contest with Tesla. Only Tesla can service the car at the present time.

All I'm saying is give this some thought. For me, I would be satisfied with just having the word TESLA illuminated when the car is running, and maybe glow brighter when the brake is applied. This was the original intent of the mod by artsci. Proceeding beyond that may result in the opening of Pandora's box.

 

[artsci]

Before you get too crazy with things, step back and think about warranty issues depending on what you do. Some people are now suggesting tying into the chargeport to determine whether the car is charging in order to change the color and/or display format of the word TESLA. What happens when the chargeport fails and Tesla asserts that the failure of the chargeport was due to the interfacing of the applique electronics to the chargeport. Similarly, what if you connect to, for example, the CAN bus and something then breaks. Tesla may deny warranty coverage.

For people that think this is unlikely, numerous owners (including myself) have had chargeports replaced. I also purchased TPMS sensors from Tesla to be installed in TSportline wheels I purchased. Unfortunately, one of the sensors was flakey and would drop communication with the receiver. Tesla denied warranty coverage on the sensor on the ground that it was installed in an unauthorized (non-Tesla) wheel. I had to go up two chain of commands before they agreed to replace the sensor under warranty. The sensor was only a $90 item (at the time). A chargeport (or other electronic item on the car) likely costs much more. How would you prove the failure was unrelated to the mod? Do you want to get into a pissing contest with Tesla. Only Tesla can service the car at the present time.

All I'm saying is give this some thought. For me, I would be satisfied with just having the word TESLA illuminated when the car is running, and maybe glow brighter when the brake is applied. This was the original intent of the mod by artsci. Proceeding beyond that may result in the opening of Pandora's box.

There are some other issues that may limit what's possible and what I'm willing to do.

One is the simple fact that there is no always-on 12v power supply in the lift gate (I just confirmed that with Tesla today). From what Danal has told me the bluetooth controller needs to be always on to function properly.

The other concerns liability matters for manufacturing and using a product with lighting effects that are illegal in some states. That may expose me to legal risks that I would be a fool to accept. I'm talking to my attorney next week about this and if there's any chance of a risk I just won't take it.

What this means is that the light effects may have to be limited to the original intent: lights red when the rear running lights are on and brightens when the brakes are applied.

 

[swegman]

Rick, if I recall, you were talking of originally using a red lens, meaning that when driving during the day (without the rear running lights being ON), the word TESLA would still be easily discernible against the chrome applique (unlike the present situation where the letters are chrome colored). Is this correct?

Regarding an always ON 12 volt source, I thought there is a light in the rear hatch. Not sure where the switch for the light is located, but perhaps you can derive the power from there. Or what about the hatch closing switch; is it connected to a 12 volt source?

 

[Danal]

Others have mentioned ideas about "connecting" to the charge port. I have not. The only thing I mentioned regarding the charge port was sensing via a Hall Effect sensor. No contact. No possibility of warranty issues. That was a "possible idea" that I have not mentioned in any of the "proposed behavior" posts. Charge port sensing is not in the current proposals.

The CAN bus has never been mentioned by me at all, and if others mentioned it, I missed it. Or ignored it. For all the reasons you state, I would not participate in the development and sale of a device that physically tapped into either the charge port or CAN bus.

The proposed module will connect only to wires leading to lights (and maybe 12V). The exact same connections required for a "glows w/running lights, brighter w/brake lights" LED applique, namely Running and Brake lights, plus connections to Turn and Reverse lights.

I say "maybe" on the 12V because I have some half baked ideas that I need to investigate before I can even discuss them coherently.





And... last... this is Artsci's project. I'm just developing a module he could use. He could also offer a "LED Only" version with red plastic in the letters, and also offer a module controlled version with clear plastic and colors supplied via NeoPixels. His choice.

 

[artsci]

Rick, if I recall, you were talking of originally using a red lens, meaning that when driving during the day (without the rear running lights being ON), the word TESLA would still be easily discernible against the chrome applique (unlike the present situation where the letters are chrome colored). Is this correct?

Regarding an always ON 12 volt source, I thought there is a light in the rear hatch. Not sure where the switch for the light is located, but perhaps you can derive the power from there. Or what about the hatch closing switch; is it connected to a 12 volt source?

I was originally thinking about red lens, but the option for switching the light to white when the car is in reverse makes good sense to me and IMHO is additional safety feature that is not gimmicky at all. The problem, as you infer, would be that during the day the letters would not show as red, unless, of course, we end up using the neopixel lighting method and we attach an always on power supply.

But none of this has been decided, as the feasibility of any lighting method depends completely on whether it is thin enough (2mm or so) to enable proper fitting of the appliqué. Of course, once the 3D file of the letter inserts has been created we can print them in any color. Clear would only be used if the neopixel lighting method works and fits, and Danal has not yet completed his prototyping of the appliqué I send him and I don't yet have the LED light panels, which appear to be on a slow boat from China (the question about why none of this stuff is made in the US any longer is a whole other discussion topic).

The light in the hatch is switched on when the hatch is open and I also think it's on a timer. But even if it were always on it would still have to be threaded into the tailgate, which is not impossible but makes installation more difficult and costly if someone is having it done by an aftermarket shop.

So no conclusions about the final product have been made yet. I suggest everyone keep offering comments and ideas here and we figure out the final design parameters and legal restrictions. In the end I have to make the decisions and more input from owners is always helpful, within the legal and technical constraints we face.

 

[SUPRKAR]

I was originally thinking about red lens, but the option for switching the light to white when the car is in reverse makes good sense to me and IMHO is additional safety feature that is not gimmicky at all. The problem, as you infer, would be that during the day the letters would not show as red, unless, of course, we end up using the neopixel lighting method and we attach an always on power supply.

But none of this has been decided, as the feasibility of any lighting method depends completely on whether it is thin enough (2mm or so) to enable proper fitting of the appliqué. Of course, once the 3D file of the letter inserts has been created we can print them in any color. Clear would only be used if the neopixel lighting method works and fits, and Danal has not yet completed his prototyping of the appliqué I send him and I don't yet have the LED light panels, which appear to be on a slow boat from China (the question about why none of this stuff is made in the US any longer is a whole other discussion topic).

The light in the hatch is switched on when the hatch is open and I also think it's on a timer. But even if it were always on it would still have to be threaded into the tailgate, which is not impossible but makes installation more difficult and costly if someone is having it done by an aftermarket shop.

So no conclusions about the final product have been made yet. I suggest everyone keep offering comments and ideas here and we figure out the final design parameters and legal restrictions. In the end I have to make the decisions and more input from owners is always helpful, within the legal and technical constraints we face.

Getting constant 12v to the hatch is not easy but no big deal. Anyone who is willing to do this has the ability to either do it themself or pay to have it done. I would hate to see a great idea like this get tossed out. The multicolor light for different effects is fantastic and I would sign a waiver in order to get it. I am of course crazy but that is no secret. Anyone who takes delivery of his Tesla on Saturday evening and starts taking it apart Sunday morning is nuts. That's me and I love these mods and this car.Using a coil pickup around the charge wires is genius pissed I did not think of it. Non intrusive but gets the job done.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Napkin-sketched ideas from this morning...
The elements of the 'E' are separate, are they not? Characters such as '=' would be possible. Maybe an F.
If the 'T' parts are isolable an 'I' would too.
...
Condition: Hazard Light On + Car Parked
Repeat "T.I.L.T." -or- "A.L.A.S."
-or- "S.E.E. ... A.A.A."

Condition: Charging
Repeat "T.E.S.L.A. ... E.A.T."

Charge at a Supercharger
"T.E.S.L.A."
Charge on a SAE Combo:
"S.A.E." (well duh!)
CHAdeMO:
"T.E.A."

Charging Completed:
"A.L.L. S.E.T. ... T.E.S.L.A. = F.A.T." 8-D

Knight Rider scan could spell:
"T.E.S.L.A. ... A.S.S.E.T. ... T.E.S.L.A. ... A.S.S.E.T."

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Uber Tesla, for hire:
"LEASE 1"

Uber Tesla, occupied:
"SEATLESS"

Insane Mode acceleration event:
"EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

 

[artsci]

Getting constant 12v to the hatch is not easy but no big deal. Anyone who is willing to do this has the ability to either do it themself or pay to have it done. I would hate to see a great idea like this get tossed out. The multicolor light for different effects is fantastic and I would sign a waiver in order to get it. I am of course crazy but that is no secret. Anyone who takes delivery of his Tesla on Saturday evening and starts taking it apart Sunday morning is nuts. That's me and I love these mods and this car.Using a coil pickup around the charge wires is genius pissed I did not think of it. Non intrusive but gets the job done.

I'm with you SUPRKAR.

For those of you who don't know, SUPRKAR is my highly trusted source of advice and information for mods to the car (camera switch, front and rear lighted T, sound deadening, carbon fiber for the diffusers and side strakes, parking sensors, appliqué, etc. etc). Having almost taken his car apart several times, he knows just about everything there is to know. He was the first beta tester for the Front T as it was under development.

When the first appliqués are produced the plan is that SUPRKAR and I will meet at the Hamilton, NJ supercharger to do the first installations and prepare installation and operational instructions. Likely that will happen in March or when we have our first warm weather in our part of the country.

In the meantime I've asked Danal to continue with this work. In the meantime I'll be discussing the legal issues with my attorney, as that will have a strong influence over what we offer.

 

[Danal]

Napkin-sketched ideas from this morning...
The elements of the 'E' are separate, are they not? Characters such as '=' would be possible. Maybe an F.
If the 'T' parts are isolable an 'I' would too.
...
Condition: Hazard Light On + Car Parked
Repeat "T.I.L.T." -or- "A.L.A.S."
-or- "S.E.E. ... A.A.A."

Condition: Charging
Repeat "T.E.S.L.A. ... E.A.T."

Charge at a Supercharger
"T.E.S.L.A."
Charge on a SAE Combo:
"S.A.E." (well duh!)
CHAdeMO:
"T.E.A."

Charging Completed:
"A.L.L. S.E.T. ... T.E.S.L.A. = F.A.T." 8-D

Knight Rider scan could spell:
"T.E.S.L.A. ... A.S.S.E.T. ... T.E.S.L.A. ... A.S.S.E.T."

Absolutely GREAT ideas! The prototype is two NeoPixels per letter... production will have more, if for no other reason, than evenness of light. I have been pondering what opportunities arise with more pixels per letter.

Anyway, very good stuff!

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Anyone who takes delivery of his Tesla on Saturday evening and starts taking it apart Sunday morning is nuts.

Me too! I have a pile of stuff to go on the car already... :smile:

 

[swegman]

If you are thinking of Hall Effect sensors, why not use them (or other inductive type sensors) everywhere, so there is absolutely no direct interface with any electrical wiring of the car, negating Tesla arguing that a mod to the car is responsible for a component failure?