Wipers

[spdpsba]

sn’t the solution simply for Tesla to sort the problems then people won’t have anything to talk about?

Oh come on! It is not that simple when it comes to brands like Tesla - there will always be polarised opinions/views on different things - once they fix (if they fix) the wipers and auto headlights, people will come up with something else.

Anyhow the nuances of applying production line logic (removing sensors) to customer satisfaction at the end of the chain is a complex activity that needs to be balanced with profit margins. And especially a company like Tesla and the CEO who is always in limelight with ‘richest man on the planet’ tag isn’t going to have lot of well wishers when his product doesn’t work the same as competitors in the market.

Some companies (Apple) beat this trap not by making infallible product (remember the antenna gate) but by making smaller iterations and taking generations to invent. Before you come up with an argument that they fixed it in 2 years time, some of their software has so many bugs - especially the ipad Pros - it’s been going on for the last 10 years (for example spell correction - have you done that in an ipad?- is it so complicated? My £100 chromebook does that without any problem - But still ipad software is yet to resolve this). I remember the BMWs various iterations of their dashboard (lay outs) not able to make out any difference from the 2004 - 2016 iterations. And people love that as they are used to something and don’t want that to change. I know few guys who bought the same cars of Mercedes C estate every 5 years, so that they don’t have to worry about learning and re learning.

I don’t think Tesla falls in that category - remember when they changed to V11 - some of the forum members didn’t even want to download the new V11. Tesla doesn’t always do minor iterations (from the vision point of view) - the concept of vision is such a big project, it would take atleast sometime (may be longtime) for that to become real. But Elon isn’t that type of guy - investors in US knows that and stock markets know that. The production line logic of removing sensors is fully linked to vision concept and also the £240 sensors for each car he doesn’t want to waste. It is not a simple issue of fix this and then Tesla will be an ideal car is in many ways wrong. Anything about Tesla will earn more clickbaits for both the company and digital sites - so something else will come up and people will talk about that! It is like Manchester United - there will be something to talk about whether losing or indifferent in their form now for the last 10 years or when they were winning under Sir Alex.

 

[M1tch]

The bare bones of any problem in modern society is money, profit and cold hard cash.

“smart motorways” kill people but people make lots of money from it so it’s ok.

The 99 miles of average speed camera on the A9 in Scotland has cost more lives since it infested the road than before - but it makes money so it’s ok.

Apples spell check isn’t as good as other cheaper brands but people kept buying the product so why bother fixing it as money is being made.

Tesla wipers and lights are sub standard compared to almost anything I’ve ever driven but they are a premium product making money so why waste money fixing it?

I can’t see anything anymore where people do good work because of pride in their jobs, it’s all money and profit based and it’s horrific. Drive down the latest, newly laid motorway, its like being in a tumble dryer - not to mention it will fail in about 3 years anyway. Drive down one 50 years old and it works. we’re doomed by greed.

 

[Durzel]

The bigger problem, at least for me, is that when engaging AutoPilot the wipers are set to AUTO. They can not be overridden. The result is that often the AutoPilot is useless when the wipers sense rain, or if there are insects on the sensor area. It's very annoying and there is no fix. The service team suggested I wipe the sensor area near the front rear view mirror often with distilled water and wipe with a microfiber cloth. Not much fun driving home 250 miles at night in the middle of the summer with bugs surrounding the car.

Look.. why can't you just pull over every 30 miles or so, get out of the car, wipe the camera area with some of your own wipes, and then get back in? What's the big deal man.

 

[s_zigmond]

It's been noted as beta in the manual since, well, forever.

I don't tend to read a car manual from cover to cover prior to car purchase (if only because historically they were in the glovebox when you bough them). I should be able to trust the sales team to tell me about items that do not work!

 

[Jason71]

The production line logic of removing sensors is fully linked to vision concept and also the £240 sensors for each car he doesn’t want to waste.

Its not a "waste" if it serves a purpose.
I have no problem with innovation. If tesla can do, for example, parking sensors or rain sensors without the sensors then more power to them.
But as a paying customer rather than a Guinea pig I would prefer it if they worked out the new tech so that it works at least almost as well as the existing relatively inexpensive solutions that have been fitted to cars a quarter of the price for decades BEFORE they remove the sensors not at an indeterminate point in the future.
Given that none of the features they have removed so far with the exception of the engine has been replaced so far with anything close to what went before/is fitted to other cars it feels at the moment more like a social experiment to find out how much stuff you can takeaway before people actually decide the cons out weigh the pros. Which is a valid business strategy if your core product is good enough but as a customer rather than a share holder it makes me and, judging by this thread, a lot of other people sad. .
If that bothers you, sorry. other threads are available.

 

[spdpsba]

Its not a "waste" if it serves a purpose.

From Elon’s point of view it is a waste. A rough estimate of the total number of cars sold from 2021 (though rains sensors were removed earlier than that) till Q2 2023 is 3,220,541. The BMW sensor costs $270 in US and even if you cost it to £200 roughly that is a large sum of money saved/wasted depending on which side you are in.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I can't believe a rain sensor is £240. I doubt they're even £24 on the production line, eBay sell generic ones for £42 as one offs. The BMW cost won't be cost on th production line, that prove is probably a dealer replacement cost including all the fees associated.

You do really need to have a functionally equivalent or better replacement before you take away the working solution, I'm not sure how anyone can argue against that and keep a straight face. It therefore boils down to whether you believe the Tesla solution is functionally equivalent, as an overall user experience including reliability, tuneability of sensitivity, and overall ease of use, I'm sorry but I'm firmly in the No camp.

And I have no sympathy for the argument "when you multiply it by the number of cars" - 0.01% of the cost of a car is 0.01% of the cost of the car. It's like people saying Tesla can;t provide the same new car handover experience today because they sell so many cars.. well they managed to do it when they sold £5m cars a year in the UK, so why can't they do it now then sell £2B of cars a year?

 

[GRiLLA]

“smart motorways” kill people but people make lots of money from it so it’s ok.

Actually a really good example of misinformation and non-fact based politics.

Smart Motorways have a lower number of deaths per journey (1.38 per hundred million miles vs 1.45 for conventional motorways). Clearly the deaths are tragic, and it's clear they died on a smart motorway, so a campaign starts saying that it's to blame, repeat the story enough in the sun, mail, torygraph etc. and our zombie government decide it's a vote winner to ban them.

Ref: Smart motorway comparison report: December 2022

 

[spdpsba]

can't believe a rain sensor is £240. I doubt they're even £24 on the production line, eBay sell generic ones for £42 as one offs.

Yes, even I can’t believe but the BMW rain sensor in US costs $270 as per various reports.

see the link:

61355a70a02 - 2023 BMW Rain Sensor (61-35-5-A70-A02) | BMW of South Atlanta Parts

Rain Sensor for 2023 BMW, Part Number 61-35-5-A70-A02.

parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Yes, even I can’t believe but the BMW rain sensor in US costs $270 as per various reports.

Apologies - I edited my post while you were replying

I think its probably dealer replacement costs not production line costs. You'd never make and sell a car for £25k if the auto wiper module alone was north of £200

 

[init6]

Sorry to pick on this person, but Tesla won't change their ways while people keep giving them money. There's enough real world evidence in this forum alone for people to be aware of the cons of owning a Tesla. Caveat emptor and all that.

I should be able to trust the sales team to tell me about items that do not work!

 

[spdpsba]

think its probably dealer replacement costs not production line costs.

It is dealer replacement part cost, yes not production line cost but I am not expecting that to cost $25 given the expense of manufacturing costs since Tesla started selling four times the amount of cars it sold in 2018.

 

[Jason71]

It is dealer replacement part cost, yes not production line cost but I am not expecting that to cost $25 given the expense of manufacturing costs since Tesla started selling four times the amount of cars it sold in 2018.

As someone who has worked in automotive part manufacture I think you would be shocked at the markup on parts. I have seen how much things like headlights are sold for to a car manufacture who is buying 500,000 of them vs what they sell them for if you want to buy one from a dealer. 10x markup on a rain sensor would not surprise me.

 

[spdpsba]

10x markup on a rain sensor would not surprise me.

Still is a significant saving for Tesla over the last 5 years - 3,220,541X25 = 80,513,525. Pocket money for Elon but still a big saving.

 

[Jason71]

Still is a significant saving for Tesla over the last 5 years - 3,220,541X25 = 80,513,525. Pocket money for Elon but still a big saving.

That depends on how many if any sales it has cost them.
I am not suggesting there is anyone who did not buy a Tesla solely due to windscreen wiper performance but it may have been one of a number of contributing factors that lead people, probably existing owners, to chose another brand for their next car. That is a hard one to quantify though. And yes I know that Tesla has sold all the cars they can build since the year dot but they have dropped the prices recently to stimulate demand.
Indicator stalks on the other hand. I hope that is saving them some serious money because that alone will cost them sales as I suspect parking sensors has.

 

[s_zigmond]

Sorry to pick on this person, but Tesla won't change their ways while people keep giving them money. There's enough real world evidence in this forum alone for people to be aware of the cons of owning a Tesla. Caveat emptor and all that.

No need to apologies for picking on my comment. When i ordered my Model Y they weren't released in the UK. As such I couldn't have any feedback on the huge number of issues they have. Especially as the cruise issues appear to be magnified in the UK compared to US. I would also question why I have to read forums to find out what working features a car does or does not have. I haven't with the 20 or so other cars I've owned.

 

[GlynG]

The bare bones of any problem in modern society is money, profit and cold hard cash.

“smart motorways” kill people but people make lots of money from it so it’s ok.

The 99 miles of average speed camera on the A9 in Scotland has cost more lives since it infested the road than before - but it makes money so it’s ok.

Apples spell check isn’t as good as other cheaper brands but people kept buying the product so why bother fixing it as money is being made.

Tesla wipers and lights are sub standard compared to almost anything I’ve ever driven but they are a premium product making money so why waste money fixing it?

I can’t see anything anymore where people do good work because of pride in their jobs, it’s all money and profit based and it’s horrific. Drive down the latest, newly laid motorway, its like being in a tumble dryer - not to mention it will fail in about 3 years anyway. Drive down one 50 years old and it works. we’re doomed by greed.

@M1tch You have hit the nail on the head - you are so right. Today the value of a person is simply measured by how much money they have, We all know "marketing" is an interchangeable word for lying, Mission statements and strap lines are more important than actually trying to do a good job, If a business has a customer service team the last thing they ever do is provide customer service - same for technical support - staffed by people who can operate a computer but know nothing technical of the products.
Sales staff in shops - used to be very important to have product knowledge - nowadays ask them a question and they have to go and find the user manual to be able to read it to you.
Tradespeople learn their trade and the skills are how to cut corners, bodge without anything visible and be onto the next job as quickly as they can.

When a business/service or public body totally stuff up its the "lessons have been learned" but nothing really changes, If a department doesn't work - you change the name of it - and any business who says "safety is the most important factor" is lying - profit is the only important factor.

Those who can - Bodge
Those who cant - Teach
Those who cant do or Teach - Are H&S or auditors
The rest are Chaplains.

 

[kpanda17]

Guys
Received 2023.32.6 yesterday and today amazing experience in rain with auto wipers
They did everything they should have and shouldn’t
Finally

 

[djtaylor]

Guys
Received 2023.32.6 yesterday and today amazing experience in rain with auto wipers
They did everything they should have and shouldn’t
Finally

I've never had a problem in the rain, it's the dry sunny days when it dry wipes out of the blue that has always been the issue for me.
I don't mind it having a go but wish it would squirt while it was at it. You can guarantee that after it has rubbed dry dust across the screen that you have to follow up with an extended wash wipe anyway.

 

[MrT3]

Guys
Received 2023.32.6 yesterday and today amazing experience in rain with auto wipers
They did everything they should have and shouldn’t
Finally

I bet not a single line of code related to the wipers was changed. We have all had good days where they work fine only for the next time to be hopeless. Different day, different condition, even rebooting the system because of the upgrade means it is impossible to draw any conclusion until you have weeks of data to make a comparison.