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Will Tesla make the "by the end of January 2015" promise for torque sleep? (P85D)

Will Tesla make the "by the end of January 2015" promise for torque sleep? (P85D)

  • Yes, as promised

    Votes: 33 27.0%
  • Nope, will be late

    Votes: 89 73.0%

  • Total voters
    122
  • Poll closed .
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Did that firmware update move TSLA? Uh....that would be a no. Will the 'torque sleep' firmware update move TSLA? Probably as much as all the other firmware updates. That was the question.

And yet no one wants to answer the question I've asked many times now. We're having the exact same complaint discussions about Tesla today as we did last year and the year before. We've got to be clinically insane at this point for thinking the same approach, over and over and over again is somehow going to result in a different outcome. If that's their reputation, then that's their reputation. They know it's a problem and they'll fix it if they want to. Or won't. If the uncertainty of that bothers you as an investor, then you know what to do.

I'm willing to concede that in all likelihood the TSLA stock price is not likely to be affected by whether or not Tesla meets deadlines for delivering firmware updates. And it appears that the stock price also isn't affected much by the reputation Tesla has built for less than stellar communication. But do you know what probably is affected by that? Word of mouth sales.

I love my P85D. I would highly recommend it to many people. I have a friend who I actually thought would really appreciate the car. Unlike me, he has owned high end cars in the price range of the Model S for as long as I've known him--about 15 years. He's the CFO at his company. If he bought a Model S and liked it, he'd probably be responsible for at least half a dozen other sales. He's that kind of person.

The day I was going to tell him about having ordered my P85D, I was also considering sending him some information about it if he was interested, sending him links, etc. This was a few months ago, and I had not yet seen first-hand what I've seen now with respect to the communication problems Tesla has.

As I was telling him about having ordered the car, my friend told me that he had actually started to order one last year too, but that he wound up not going through with it. It sounded to me as if he had actually placed a deposit, without understanding that the car was going to be built to his specifications, and uniquely for him. I think he understood roughly the time-frame, but he wanted to specify the color closer to when he'd be taking delivery. Because he had not researched the car much at all, and probably just didn't understand the differences between the way Tesla sells cars and the way other car makers sell cars, he was completely put off when someone from Tesla was, as he put it, "bugging him to pick a color when he had told them he'd pick the color later."

It was a short call, and I didn't have time to fully explain the Tesla buying process. I plan to the next time we get together in person. But my point is that knowing what I now know about Tesla and the way they communicate I absolutely would not recommend that this particular friend purchase a Tesla. Why? Because I know my friend. I know that he would never take the time to read internet forums to educate himself on the nuances of the car. I know that he would have no patience for a car that occasionally had bugs that needed to be worked out. I know that the way Tesla communicates and the way my friend expects to be treated as a consumer of a six-figure automobile would not be a good fit.

So though I love my P85D, and though I think my friend would ultimately be happy with the car itself, I can't in good faith recommend that he purchase a Tesla. And I bet most of us have a friend or two just like that.

So perhaps that's not negatively impacting the TSLA stock price while the company is supply-constrained anyway right now. But looking at the big picture, it can't be helping. That's what bothers me.
 
Was not a miss-statement. At all. Was not specifically referring to 'torque sleep' firmware update in that sentence. Later in my post I spoke specifically to the 'torque sleep' firmware update.

Umm, the only thing that came after the paragraph I quoted from you was your 'belly laugh' comment. But you also say that the later comment wasn't referencing this thread, or any thread, at all. I'm not sure what you're referring to as 'later' then.


And yet no one wants to answer the question I've asked many times now. We're having the exact same complaint discussions about Tesla today as we did last year and the year before.

Sounds like we agree that's not a good thing. So what do you suggest? Stop buying the cars and let Tesla sink into history?

Because I've never experienced frustrations of an equal level in my life, right? Give me a break, Nigel. Choosing to view life from a different perspective and not getting bent about things that don't matter in the scheme of things doesn't mean I don't get it. If arm waving effectively works for you and others, have at it.

It is also possible to empathize a little with people who have spent six figures on a product that doesn't perform as advertised and hasn't been fixed as promised. I'm not sure why we have to beat everyone who complains about anything into the quiet corner.

Not that I think it will matter to you, since you've assumed the worst of me, I wasn't actually referencing the people in this thread (or any thread) who are upset about various Model S/Tesla issues with my laughing comment. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and asking for clarification before jumping to a conclusion.

You're assuming I assumed the worst of you; I commented on your comment that was tagged onto your dismissal of folks complaints. If you posted that in a totally different context there's an empty space at the bottom of this thread and you should feel free to explain, or not as you like.
 
Nigel, as a moderator I would urge you to keep the thread on track and to its purpose (getting torque sleep updates). Can you possibly move the rants to another thread? I hate to start another one for the torque sleep updates since there's already some info in here. Thanks!
 
Sure, but that's a different question entirely. You specifically asked about *this* firmware update and 'the market's' view.

Sorry if I opened up a can of worms here but I actually was not just referring to *this* firmware miss but the growing number of misses that TM is experiencing. So, to clarify, I am concerned as an investor when the company I invest in is missing guidance (reducing production guidance 2x in the last 2-3 months), further delaying the X introduction/production, and yes, selling vehicles with promised hardware (seats) and firmware (torque vectoring) that should have been in the cars on delivery. Will I get them eventually? Yes. If given the choice would I have taken delivery knowing before hand that it will be made right: Yes. Will I pull my core holdings from TSLA? I thought I would never say this...but if this continues...maybe.
My concern is not with my willingness to put up with these things as a reasonably early investor/car owner. My concern is what the market and potential future owners will think as the misses build up and thus confidence in the ability of TM to delivery their product and fulfill their mission statement is negatively impacted.

I think these are legitimate concerns. I have voiced these concerns to upper management in TM to the best of my ability and hope that they can reestablish trust so that current and future owners will get what they contracted for and if that is not possible to communicate better about these misses.

These are first world problems. I accept that these issues do not bother you or you have come to accept them as the way TM chooses to do business. My own belief is that if we just say 'It's TM being TM' that
they will have little, if any reason, to change.

- - - Updated - - -

Nigel, as a moderator I would urge you to keep the thread on track and to its purpose (getting torque sleep updates). Can you possibly move the rants to another thread? I hate to start another one for the torque sleep updates since there's already some info in here. Thanks!

Sorry, my part in this is over. Back to torque vectoring. Maybe we should redo the poll. Ending date, February 11 (ER date)
 
Nigel, as a moderator I would urge you to keep the thread on track and to its purpose (getting torque sleep updates). Can you possibly move the rants to another thread? I hate to start another one for the torque sleep updates since there's already some info in here. Thanks!

Actually while I rarely disagree with you, Mark, I think I have to here.

This thread really hasn't been about getting Torque sleep updates at all. It started as a poll as to whether or not Tesla would meet the deadline, which of course easily and obviously segued into a discussion of Tesla communication practices, what people think of Tesla, etc. The thread was destined to do that, and discussion of that nature has been in this thread for quite a while. In fact the ninth and tenth posts in this thread, on the very first page, were already commenting on that.

It's really never been the place to go for information on the actual update.

That's how I see it, anyway. Others may disagree.
 
Nigel, as a moderator I would urge you to keep the thread on track and to its purpose (getting torque sleep updates). Can you possibly move the rants to another thread? I hate to start another one for the torque sleep updates since there's already some info in here. Thanks!

You're being unfair to Nigel. This thread is, in fact, about a poll regarding who believes it will arrive before the end of Feb. That has everything to do with Nigel's comments and back and forth with Krugerrand. Besides, is it that hard to just scroll past them?

Edit: Agree with Andy - who beat me to it.
 
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This thread really hasn't been about getting Torque sleep updates at all. It started as a poll as to whether or not Tesla would meet the deadline, which of course easily and obviously segued into a discussion of Tesla communication practices, what people think of Tesla, etc. The thread was destined to do that, and discussion of that nature has been in this thread for quite a while. It's really never been the place to go for information on the actual update.

Good point, thanks for clarifying. I'll head over to the 6.1 Firmware thread then! I'll post again here if I ever hear back from Jerome regarding my email stating our dissatisfaction with the missed "end of January 2015" date.


I don't believe this contains torque vectoring.

I don't think so either, but that what I was trying to confirm. I'll check the other thread and the TM forums.


You're being unfair to Nigel. This thread is, in fact, about a poll regarding who believes it will arrive before the end of Feb. That has everything to do with Nigel's comments and back and forth with Krugerrand. Besides, is it that hard to just scroll past them?

Totally understood, my bad for not realizing the point of this thread.
 
Good point, thanks for clarifying. I'll head over to the 6.1 Firmware thread then! I'll post again here if I ever hear back from Jerome regarding my email stating our dissatisfaction with the missed "end of January 2015" date.

There's also this thread, Marc:

New Blog: Driving Range for Model S Family.... - Page 13

No one's been posting to it in a while, but it may be the thread that makes the most sense to bring back to life and post updates in if we're looking for a thread to make specific to the torque sleep issue.
 
I hate to start another one for the torque sleep updates since there's already some info in here. Thanks!

Ah, welcome to my world. I think this thread was covering the question of deadline, that's now passed. Firmware updates should be in the Firmware 6.1 thread, or (and I suspect this will be the case) it will be a completely new firmware version e.g. Firmware v6.2. Discussion on real world Torque Sleep should probably have its own thread and the only question is whether that's in User Interface (firmware), Battery & Charging (range) or Driving Dynamics (performance)?
 
There's also this thread, Marc:

New Blog: Driving Range for Model S Family.... - Page 13

No one's been posting to it in a while, but it may be the thread that makes the most sense to bring back to life and post updates in if we're looking for a thread to make specific to the torque sleep issue.

Thanks Andy, I'll revive the thread.


Why not just start a new thread like: "Anyone who gets torque sleep update, please post here." ?

I'm guessing because we don't really know the version number of the torque sleep update. If we start yet another thread it might get littered with "I got .115" or "I got .139" with little idea of which one (if any) contains the goods :biggrin:


Ah, welcome to my world. I think this thread was covering the question of deadline, that's now passed. Firmware updates should be in the Firmware 6.1 thread, or (and I suspect this will be the case) it will be a completely new firmware version e.g. Firmware v6.2. Discussion on real world Torque Sleep should probably have its own thread and the only question is whether that's in User Interface (firmware), Battery & Charging (range) or Driving Dynamics (performance)?

Appreciate your work on this forum and understand it's not easy! I'm also thinking 6.2 but in the meantime will see if we can revive the "Model S family driving range" thread Andy mentioned above.
 
Well, I think this thread has served it's purpose, which was to poll if anyone believed Tesla would make their deadline and see who was right. Looks like the crowd-sourced prediction was true.

Aside from that, I'm not sure what else it's good for at this point. I guess I'll start another poll after we see what the update that just hit a few P85Ds in the Firmware 6.1 thread is...
 
Ok mine just finished installing. My rated range did not change, still 230 at 90%. Nothing in the release notes at the end said anything about torque sleep. Doesn't look promising. I might head out for a small drive to test out the efficiency. This version is 6.1(2.2.139)