Wife just said she's never driving the Tesla again......

[polymathic]

As this thread keeps on giving, I'd like to share a detail to dispel some of the generalizations I've been reading about spouses, which, interestingly, all seem to be wives in this thread. As others have noted, there is an undercurrent of sexism in some posts. Nothing egregious, but it still is there.

My wife is the driving force behind getting an MX; she is the one who has been enamored with EVs before the MS even came out. While I am enthusiastic about EVs, the MX's complicated doors, enormous windshield, reliability issues, and very high price makes me lean towards an ICE SUV for a few more years, then make the EV leap. She will hear none of it. She just loves the car and performance. And she's ready to deal with niggling issues here and there. She even did additional freelance work to make this purchase less of a stretch for us. Also, among our friends, many women are very enthusiastic about our forthcoming Tesla; in fact, as many women as men.

The point I'm making is that there is no such thing as a typical woman, and I sense that women may actually be more openminded to EVs than men.

 

[sorka]

This is one area that Tesla needs to consider fixing. The problem, as I've stated many times, is that Tesla has a buffet style SuperCharger program and they don't have much Electric Vehicle competition, so they don't have an incentive to make it competitively good, in their mind, but in fact, they are competing against ICE users, as I stated above.

Bingo!

One solution to this is for Tesla to offer an UltraCharger for extra money at charge-per-use that is 3x the max SuperCharger speed, and those can be the competitive units.

The problem with this is that those that don't buy this option will end up slowing down those who did and are forced to wait in line to continue their long journey while the local person parks and goes to a movie not caring how long it will take to charge.

They wouldn't need many of them, since most people would just sit in their car until it's done, and since it's a charge-per-use payment model, Tesla can also charge for your car sitting there extra time after charging is complete, by charging a time component, which can also nudge you off when you're topping off during taper down. Tesla would probably have to offer a retrofit plug for existing models that work with such a new UltraCharger, as well as install it in all future Tesla models, since I believe faster charging challenges the limits of the current plug.

I'd be willing to pay a fee for sitting while not charging if Tesla would make it the same across the board for everyone. Way too many locals in in certain areas leaving their cars sitting in the stalls long after charging has completed because they're seeing a movie or shopping. This is more of a problem with the superchargers in the malls than near the rest stops on the interstates.[/QUOTE]

 

[sorka]

Good grief--no. Obviously I don't know your experience, but you seem to have this badly mistaken impression that the Supercharger network is not "competitive" and is actually inferior to other options. That is beyond ludicrous. How many times have you tried using CHAdeMO stations from Chargepoint, Blink, Greenlots, EVGo, Semacharge, Aerovironment, etc.? What is their success rate of working, regardless of speed? But here's the big one: no redundancy of another stall to move to, since CHAdeMOs just have the one plug. If it doesn't work, suck it and go to a backup plan. That has caused quite a problem for me on a trip, which showed me that I can't count on other solutions that aren't Superchargers.

Inferior to other charging systems, but inferior to gas stations if the supercharging network isn't working as advertised.

 

[cmt489]

As this thread keeps on giving, I'd like to share a detail to dispel some of the generalizations I've been reading about spouses, which, interestingly, all seem to be wives in this thread. As others have noted, there is an undercurrent of sexism in some posts. Nothing egregious, but it still is there.

My wife is the driving force behind getting an MX; she is the one who has been enamored with EVs before the MS even came out. While I am enthusiastic about EVs, the MX's complicated doors, enormous windshield, reliability issues, and very high price makes me lean towards an ICE SUV for a few more years, then make the EV leap. She will hear none of it. She just loves the car and performance. And she's ready to deal with niggling issues here and there. She even did additional freelance work to make this purchase less of a stretch for us. Also, among our friends, many women are very enthusiastic about our forthcoming Tesla; in fact, as many women as men.

The point I'm making is that there is no such thing as a typical woman, and I sense that women may actually be more openminded to EVs than men.

Thank you for this! I was also the one that pushed the EV consideration in our household. Around the time that Tesla came out with the S, without really knowing about Tesla, I made a firm announcement that I wanted my next vehicle to be an EV. It was then that hubby, a tech guy by trade, told me about Tesla. I researched and was hooked. I eventually test drove an S and there was no going back. I held off on buying however as they had announced the X and this was what I really wanted. This was MY dream car. That said, hubby is hooked as well but he was certainly not the driving force behind the decision.

 

[sorka]

I think Tesla has pretty much maxed out charging speed with today's technology. Charging that fast generates a lot of heat which can damage the battery. Their attempt at overcoming this was to institute a "battery swap" program where they literally replaced your battery in 10 minutes or something like that, but they shut the one test facility they set up to do those down so not sure they are continuing to research that approach any longer.

I'm confused. Has there been any indication that supercharging has damaged batteries with the normal(not disabled rate that we've seen recently) charge rate?

Tales from a Tesla Model S at 200k miles

This Tesla limo operator charged up to 100% every day and supercharged nearly 200K miles of range between SoCal and Vegas and has only seen 6% degradation in 200K miles.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm confused. Has there been any indication that supercharging has damaged batteries with the normal(not disabled rate that we've seen recently) charge rate?

No, you're jumping one step ahead on the conclusion. Charging at a really high rate does generate a lot of heat, as @sdorn said, and it would be damaging to the batteries if Tesla did not cool them. Tesla can only get the 100kW+ power level they do because they use the air conditioning system to actively cool the batteries to keep them within a tolerable heat level. Other electric cars that do not actively temperature control their battery packs do have to give warnings not to use CHAdeMO too much because they can't get rid of the excessive heat fast enough, and there has been a little bit of data that it can harm their batteries some.

There is also the fingers crossed method from other EV manufacturers, where their batteries are so small that the CHAdeMO can only run for about 10-15 minutes before tapering, so they hope it doesn't have enough time to build up too much heat to cause damage.

 

[Rocky_H]

Inferior to other charging systems, but inferior to gas stations if the supercharging network isn't working as advertised.

But if you're going to go back to the paradigm of comparing it to gas vehicles, then we have to bring up how gas vehicles are such an inferior experience all of the other 98% of the time when you're not on a trip.

 

[sorka]

No, you're jumping one step ahead on the conclusion. Charging at a really high rate does generate a lot of heat, as @sdorn said, and it would be damaging to the batteries if Tesla did not cool them. Tesla can only get the 100kW+ power level they do because they use the air conditioning system to actively cool the batteries to keep them within a tolerable heat level. Other electric cars that do not actively temperature control their battery packs do have to give warnings not to use CHAdeMO too much because they can't get rid of the excessive heat fast enough, and there has been a little bit of data that it can harm their batteries some.

There is also the fingers crossed method from other EV manufacturers, where their batteries are so small that the CHAdeMO can only run for about 10-15 minutes before tapering, so they hope it doesn't have enough time to build up too much heat to cause damage.

Yes, I know all that, but if you look at what I was actually responding to:

I think Tesla has pretty much maxed out charging speed with today's technology. Charging that fast generates a lot of heat which can damage the battery. Their attempt at overcoming this was to institute a "battery swap" program where they literally replaced your battery in 10 minutes or something like that, but they shut the one test facility they set up to do those down so not sure they are continuing to research that approach any longer.

which I interpreted to mean that Tesla's current charge ramp can damage batteries and perhaps they've decided they need to slow the charge rate to keep from doing so.

 

[sorka]

But if you're going to go back to the paradigm of comparing it to gas vehicles, then we have to bring up how gas vehicles are such an inferior experience all of the other 98% of the time when you're not on a trip.

Hmm. What 98% of the time is that?

 

[apacheguy]

The point I'm making is that there is no such thing as a typical woman, and I sense that women may actually be more openminded to EVs than men.

Interesting point. Is there any data to support that claim? I'd be interested. 95% of folks that I personally know that have an EV and/or like to talk about EVs are male. Definitely not scientific though, so I'd appreciate some data to change my opinion.

"
The survey shows that the owners of EV differs from the random sample in the following ways: More men than women (68 % vs 32 %), the age groups between 30 and 50 represent 60 percent in the EV sample compared with 38 percent in the random sample, 84 percent of the EV sample have education on university level compared with 65 percent in the random sample, in the EV sample 72 percent live in household with more than two persons compared with 43 per cent in the random sample. 93 percent of EV owners also own a car with combustion engine. 23 percent of the random sample have two cars (10 percent have no car). More of the EV sample is working full time (73 percent vs 62 percent). "

http://www.compett.org/documents/wp..._electric_vehicles_a_review_of_literature.pdf

 

[SageBrush]

Interesting point. Is there any data to support that claim? I'd be interested. 95% of folks that I personally know that have an EV and/or like to talk about EVs are male. Definitely not scientific though, so I'd appreciate some data to change my opinion.

"
The survey shows that the owners of EV differs from the random sample in the following ways: More men than women (68 % vs 32 %), the age groups between 30 and 50 represent 60 percent in the EV sample compared with 38 percent in the random sample, 84 percent of the EV sample have education on university level compared with 65 percent in the random sample, in the EV sample 72 percent live in household with more than two persons compared with 43 per cent in the random sample. 93 percent of EV owners also own a car with combustion engine. 23 percent of the random sample have two cars (10 percent have no car). More of the EV sample is working full time (73 percent vs 62 percent). "

http://www.compett.org/documents/wp..._electric_vehicles_a_review_of_literature.pdf

Anecdotal stereotypes from personal observation:

If a female is anti-EV it stems from comfort and convenience mostly, and sometimes fear of change or concern over costs.
If a male is anti-EV it is most often rationalized as "inadequate performance." They definitely objectify the car.

 

[mhan00]

Hmm. What 98% of the time is that?

The 98 percent of the time that most people (apparently not you with your pretty insane 260 mile commute) don't ever have to think about charging or range anxiety because they wake up every morning with a full tank. As I have stated before, I drove a Leaf for three years that has, at best, half of the range of an aggressively driven low end Tesla, and I worried about range almost never, and that included about six months of Uber driving as I tried to monetize the excess miles I had remaining on my lease. With a Tesla I would have never worried about range. Most people drive fewer than 60 miles on a daily basis, so public charging isn't even a consideration. And that's not mentioning the smoother acceleration and, IMO, the overall better driving experience an EV offers over most ICEs. I enjoyed driving my Leaf (and now my Volt) over the Honda Pilot and Lexus GS I had before it.

 

[alloverx]

My wife had to drive herself to the airport the other week and because it was at night she put up a terrible fuss. She takes change poorly, but at least she is willing to *try*. In the end she practiced night driving for a week before the trip, each night driving more. She even had a dry run to the airport.

My wife has done exactly the same thing for a new destination, in fact I now suspect our wives are twins. Just to add a dimension, she has done some "tough" things in her life that I am not sure I would have the courage to do. e.g. gone without food for 3+ days.

 

[Az_Rael]

Just to inject a different perspective from the X chromosome side, I am the Tesla fangirl in my household. My husband is supportive, but I doubt he would ever trade in his ICE for an EV. It does add a level of complication to longer drives, and he has seen the Burbank supercharger with a line and and wasn't that impressed.

I doubt he would refuse to drive my S, but I could see how a non-EV enthusiast spouse could get there with one or two bad experiences (regardless of gender).

He hates long road trips now, but is willing to try one with me in the S once I get it (factory tour FTW). It will be interesting as to whether or not he enjoys the longer stops or just gets weary of being on the road longer. I could totally see it going either way, and the ICE becoming the sole road trip car if the supercharging experience is less than optimal.

 

[SageBrush]

Just to inject a different perspective from the X chromosome side

My X chromosome feels slighted.

 

[bhzmark]

If a female is anti-EV it stems from comfort and convenience mostly, and sometimes fear of change or concern over costs.
If a male is anti-EV it is most often rationalized as "inadequate performance." They definitely objectify the car.

If anyone is anti EV it is more likely due to ignorance or irrational fear of change.

Anyone who favors comfort, convenience, frugality or performance, and is properly informed with relevant facts, will favor EVs -- Unless they are irrationally afraid of change and new things.

 

[sorka]

If anyone is anti EV it is more likely due to ignorance or irrational fear of change.

Anyone who favors comfort, convenience, frugality or performance, and is properly informed with relevant facts, will favor EVs -- Unless they are irrationally afraid of change and new things.

True, but that's not what this thread is about. It's about a charging infrastructure that has been performing well but appears to be having some serious issues in the last few months and as a result, even well informed long time Tesla owners who've enjoyed the EV experience are now complaining too.

 

[SageBrush]

Anyone who favors comfort, convenience,

ICE cars have not improved much (relatively speaking) for years so manufacturers have put a lot of effort into what I consider trivial creature comforts. For example

• Bigger and more cup holders
• Vanity mirrors with lights
• A gazillion electric gizmos
• Plush interiors

I'm willing to hazard a guess that women are over-represented in the focus groups.

 

[SageBrush]

even well informed long time Tesla owners who've enjoyed the EV experience are now complaining too.

What fraction of that group are refusing to drive their cars over one episode of a faulty SC station ?

Sorry, but this is not about Tesla, it is about your wife. Good Luck!

 

[sorka]

ICE cars have not improved much (relatively speaking) for years so manufacturers have put a lot of effort into what I consider trivial creature comforts. For example

• Bigger and more cup holders
• Vanity mirrors with lights
• A gazillion electric gizmos
• Plush interiors

I'm willing to hazard a guess that women are over-represented in the focus groups.

Those characteristics aren't ICE or EV specific. All other EVs have lighted vanity mirrors. Not having enough cup holders has nothing to do with the car being electric or gas.