WhiteStar styling ideas

[Cobos]

I would like a decent compromise, or rather I want 100 miles range with low price or very good looks. If they can do 100 miles range and 6.0 secs on 0-100, I'm more than happy. A 100 miles and 7.5s I would still buy if the price was right. My main problem seem to be it is essentially priced out of my range. Or $60 000 isn't but 60 000 Euro probably is... Looking more generally, would say the Fisker is in many ways a decent compromise between looks and airodynamic shape, but I'd prefer that the Model S was a lot less polarizing in design than the FK. It's a bit too much hate it or love it. I like the new Jaguars and Aston Martin DB9 kind of looks. I've seen one Maserati Quattroporte in Oslo and that design is fantastic in real life IMHO. Probably a bit too big for the Model S but that would be fantastic.

Cobos

 

[Kevin Harney]

For me I need a range of at least 175-200 miles. 0-60 in 6 seconds is perfectly acceptable. BUT I will not buy a car that I consider ugly. So a car that is super aerodynamic is probably not going to work for me given the past super aerodynamic cars. Deal killers for me are wheel skirts - hate those ugly things. And probably this hatchback idea that is floating around. I am VERY disappointed that our "family sedan" has seemed to move to a Coupe hatchback. I was looking for a LUXURY SEDAN. Meaning a BMW 5 or 7 series, a Mercedes 300S or 500S, an Audi A6 or A8 or even the new Jag FK (I think that is right). I want 4 doors and a trunk. I am coming from an SUV now so a coupe hatchback is too small for me. I really hope that the S is compatible with my needs because I would really hate to have to wait for another model or manufacturer to come out with something else.

 

[Laurent]

Here is what I'm looking for. First of all, the car has to look good and it has to be comfortable for 2 adults and 2 kids, otherwise it's a non-starter. The range is the most important thing, it needs to be at least 150 miles (EPA) so that we can drive around the Bay Area without worrying about running out of electrons. We like to go to Monterey (90 miles away) every once in a while but I guess we'll have to take the minivan for that. Same goes for Tahoe obviously. Second most important thing is performance. 0-60 is 6 seconds is just fine, that's actually very quick compared to what I've been driving lately (you guessed it, it's the minivan :biggrin. And least important thing is the price. If price was important, I wouldn't be on the waiting list for a Roadster ! :tongue:

 

[flabby]

Personally, I love the idea of a hatchback...so much more practical (surfing, camping, hauling stuff, etc., and, of course, family:smile, as long as they can make it look good. I seriously doubt that it will be a coupe (2d) hatchback, more likely it will be a sedan (4d) hatchback.

I spoke to one of the guys at the menlo park store on Tuesday and asked him about rumors of multiple motor choices for the whitestar. He said the choices will more likely be with battery sizes. He said the base car will probably cost around $60,000 and get about 150 miles to the charge, and that the 240ish mile per charge car will likley have a base price of around $70,000 to $80,000.

 

[malcolm]

So it's quite likely there will be numbers in the name: S150, S240. Although they will probably use the battery energy capacity figure rather than the EPA range.

 

[Cobos]

I do hope they'll use the battery energy, but I'm afraid they'll use the EPA miles since that is easier to understand for the uninitiated, even though it makes less sense from a engineering standpoint.

Cobos

 

[Kevin Harney]

Flabby,

That is all well and good but I have been racking my brain to come up with a 4DR hatchback. I can not think of any that are on the market. All the hatchbacks that I can remember are 2DR coupes. Can we share some 4DR hatchbacks !!! I want 4DRs Nothing I HATE more than having to move my seat for someone to get in the car !!!!! ARRRRRG except maybe those ugly wheel skirts. They have to top my list

 

[flabby]

Kevin
I'm fully with you about the whitestar having 4-doors...if the whitestar has only two doors, it won't buy it. Four doors for me is a must.

Most of the four door sedans in the US nowdays I believe are called crossovers or sports wagons (possibly to give them a "coolness" factor and remove them from the bad stigma of the "station wagon" label applied to various four-door hatchbacks of the past). Following are a few 4door hatchbacks that I found after doing a quick internet search (I'm sure there are more):
US Crossovers/wagons: First Generation Saab 9-3, Buick Enclave, Infinity EX and FX , BMW X6, Audi A3, Saturn Outlook, Cadillac SRX Crossover, Saab 9-5 and 9-3 SportCombi, GMC Acadia, Pontiac Torrent Crossover, Pontiac Vibe, subaru outback, Subaru Impreza 5-door and outback sport, Subaru Impreza Wrx 5-door and WRX Sport, VW Jetta Sports Wagon, Mazdz CX-7 and CX-9

In the UK and much of Europe, because of the hatchback's popularity, most automobile manufacturers offer numerous 4-door hatchback models. In the US, 4 door hatches are gradually becoming more popular, but the standard here is still the sedan. I believe, as was pointed out by TEG in an earlier blog, the reason is probably because a trunk is viewed by many as being more secure than a hatch.

As an aside,
I read a quote by Elon in an interview a while back, but I can't seem to find it, that gave me the impression that Telsa was going to attempt to steal away not only the sedan croud, but also some of the SUV croud with the whitestar.
(SUV's are also four door hatch backs, they have four doors and a hatch back:biggrin.

 

[doug]

That is all well and good but I have been racking my brain to come up with a 4DR hatchback.

Here's the Mazda 3 hatchback. They tend to call them 5 doors:

 

[TEG]

There a quite a few 4 door sport hatchbacks (AKA 5-door) but they all tend to be less expensive than the Model S market.

Some examples:

Subaru WRX
Mitushibish Lancer
Mazda6
IS300 Sportcross

 

[Kevin Harney]

I was really AFRAID that you'll would name Station Wagons and Cross overs. These are not Hatch backs in my little old humble opinion. They are Station wagons and SUVs. The only one I have seen that was a hatch back was the Lancer and that is fugly looking. If it is like an SUV - great that is what I drive now but then call it that. Cross over is a station wagon or small SUV call it that. What I don't like about the hatchbacks are the rear window on the same plane as the trunk area ie a long flat slant from the roof to the bumper. I want a break in angle for the trunk or straight down from the roof llike an SUV. I got to tell you that I was REALLY hoping for a SEDAN as was first reported. 5 seater with a trunk typical sedan. Now that that has changed I am disappointed and will probably not like whatever they put out But I am keeping my fingers crossed that I am WRONG. I have resigned myself that it will be a piece of crap so that I have a slight chance of being excited when they come out that it is not anywhere near as bad as I pictured. I have NEVER seen a true HATCHBACK that I like. Very practicle but IMHO fugly and I would NEVER buy one.

 

[TEG]

...Porsche Panamera again...

Planned Hybrid too

 

[Michael]

Wouldn't a Prius also be considered a hatchback?

 

[doug]

Wouldn't a Prius also be considered a hatchback?

Yes. I think if done right, a hatchback can look ok. Been recently doing quite a bit of moving and it is certainly a much more functional design.

 

[Kevin Harney]

All of these listed are Bluestar material not Whitestar IMHO. I want LUXURY for $60K.

 

[doug]

All of these listed are Bluestar material not Whitestar IMHO. I want LUXURY for $60K.

I understand your opinion (though I don't necessarily agree). I suppose they could save the functionality for Bluestar. I'd like Bluestar to be a 2 door, 5 seater hatchback with rally car like proportions (and performance :wink.

 

[Kevin Harney]

Doug,

That was not my point at all. I think that Bluestar can be anything and I think your ideas of styling are really good . What I am saying is that I want LUXURY in my Luxury Sedan and for me a hatch back aint it. I want four doors and a trunk and all of the ammenities you can think of in a car and then some. I have all that and more in my Jeep Grand Cherokee and I only spent $40K for that. If I am spending almost double that for a Whitestar I want my money's worth And IMHO simply putting in an electric motor aint worth double. That is all I was saying. All of the cars listed above with the possible exception of the Porsche are really $20K - $30 K cars not $60K - $80K cars.

 

[Kevin Harney]

And, I expect Bluestar to be the equivalent of a Honda Accord or Toyota Camary. Something that is the modern day equivelent of the model T - something that millions of people can afford and drive easily. Not necessarily the styling of those cars but the philosophy of them. Something that is for the blue class worker to lower middle class.

Whitestar on the other hand should be the equivalent of a Mercedes 500 class or a BMW 5 or 7 series or an Audi A6 or A8 or a Jaguar F class. Shall we say a step above. Or something that is upper middle class or lower upper class.

 

[Cobos]

I can agree that Model S should supercede the Pruis in luxury. I'm not too averse of the hatchback shape and for the Norwegian market a hatchback will do better than a sedan. But to really hit most customers in this segment in Norway I'm pretty sure they need a station wagon shape in addition or instead of a sedan. They sell boatloads of station wagons in Norway, so much that most crossovers are called wagons here not SUVs. But I suppose that is too much of a special shape so I expect it to be some kind of sedanlike shape.

Cobos

 

[TEG]

I can agree that Model S should supercede the Pruis in luxury.

Don't forget that there is a plan to offer a Lexus (more upscale) version of Prius.