What's your next EV after Tesla?

[pipestem]

Why? Tesla Vision was just tested by NCAP to receive the highest score ever 98 in Safety Assist category, so it is better than what you had before with mix of radar and vision. Are you upset Tesla just made your car even safer?

Model Y With Tesla Vision Receives Top Score On New Euro NCAP Safety Test Despite Lack Of Radar

The Tesla Model Y has received a leading score of 98 percent in Euro NCAP's automatic emergency braking test despite the vehicle not being equipped with radar. This is a great testament to Elon Musk's and Tesla's belief that level 5 autonomy can be achieved using only cameras.

www.torquenews.com

That's good info. While the news reports quote 'automatic emergency braking', the full PDF covers pedestrian detection, auto lane keeping (ALK), and emergency lane keeping (ELK) as well as regular passive safety features. Overall the i4 did not do well in those categories. Volvo C40 rechage, and thus Polestar 2, did better than i4 but still behind Tesla by a margin. I'm feeling more smug about my new Model 3 delivery tomorrow.

 

[voxel]

That's good info. While the news reports quote 'automatic emergency braking', the full PDF covers pedestrian detection, auto lane keeping (ALK), and emergency lane keeping (ELK) as well as regular passive safety features. Overall the i4 did not do well in those categories. Volvo C40 rechage, and thus Polestar 2, did better than i4 but still behind Tesla by a margin. I'm feeling more smug about my new Model 3 delivery tomorrow.

The Polestar 2 would be a fantastic EV if priced at $50K or less. It's near luxury price but has cheap interior, poor audio, short range, cramped interior and barely any cargo space. Everything about the 3 and Y is better except maybe the Ohlin suspensions on the P2. I loved my test drive but when I looked at the $62K price tag.. I balked. Maybe with the tax credit it would have been more tolerable.

 

[pipestem]

The Polestar 2 would be a fantastic EV if priced at $50K or less. It's near luxury price but has cheap interior, poor audio, short range, cramped interior and barely any cargo space. Everything about the 3 and Y is better except maybe the Ohlin suspensions on the P2. I loved my test drive but when I looked at the $62K price tag.. I balked. Maybe with the tax credit it would have been more tolerable.

Exactly. Would be a great 2nd car at less than 50k with better standard equipment. . To match Tesla equip you needed to spend an extra $7200 min in options and the scarcity of service locations feels dicey.. Now without the credit that’s not working. Too bad. I notice they have a lot of inventory agsin.

 

[laservet]

It was an assembly error, not a design flaw I believe.

Apparently not. It's been months and Toyota still hasn't found a fix for the lug nuts loosening during driving, is paying for rental cars, fuel, and loan payments for owners, and recently started buying them back from owners. Pie in the face for Toyota's entry into the EV market. Wheels falling off aside, it is an uninspiring car in all ways, better choices out there.

 

[smogne41]

Apparently not. It's been months and Toyota still hasn't found a fix for the lug nuts loosening during driving, is paying for rental cars, fuel, and loan payments for owners, and recently started buying them back from owners. Pie in the face for Toyota's entry into the EV market. Wheels falling off aside, it is an uninspiring car in all ways, better choices out there.

Toyota press release soon probably: "The industry can not switch to BEVs because no one has figured out EV wheel technology. However, hydrogen car wheel technology is a better long term solution."/s

 

[brainhouston]

Apparently not. It's been months and Toyota still hasn't found a fix for the lug nuts loosening during driving, is paying for rental cars, fuel, and loan payments for owners, and recently started buying them back from owners. Pie in the face for Toyota's entry into the EV market. Wheels falling off aside, it is an uninspiring car in all ways, better choices out there.

This is so puzzling to me... Toyota is known for dependable cars that run forever, how could they mess this up, with a component that's not even unique to the EV lol
I wish we knew the answer...

 

[GSP]

I plan to stick with my M3 and MY for many years. Hopefully the EV supply will catch up with demand by then, with better pricing and lower wait times. The non-Tesla EVs that interest me the most are the F-150 Lightning, upcoming Porsche Cayman EV, and Mercedes EQS RWD. I am not likely to give them serious consideration until there is a reliable nationwide charging network that they can use.

 

[voxel]

I plan to stick with my M3 and MY for many years. Hopefully the EV supply will catch up with demand by then, with better pricing and lower wait times. The non-Tesla EVs that interest me the most are the F-150 Lightning, upcoming Porsche Cayman EV, and Mercedes EQS RWD. I am not likely to give them serious consideration until there is a reliable nationwide charging network that they can use.

Worrying about charging network is like worrying about charging speeds. 99% of my driving will be within home/work charging limits. The 1% of the time I need to road trip I still prefer ICE SUV for comfort, safety features, and range.

Buy an EV for the 99% of your driving and not the 1%. Nobody needs 300+ miles of highway range… it’s just nice to have a larger battery so you don’t constantly have to charge.

Now if you only have one car… I’d highly recommend a PHEV like the RAV4 Prime.

 

[voxel]

Exactly. Would be a great 2nd car at less than 50k with better standard equipment. . To match Tesla equip you needed to spend an extra $7200 min in options and the scarcity of service locations feels dicey.. Now without the credit that’s not working. Too bad. I notice they have a lot of inventory agsin.

When I test drove one a week ago they had a dozen on the lot in Tampa. All were $60K ish. Even the used ones with 10K+ miles were $55-59K. The suspension, linear acceleration/regen, and handling all surprised me. This car deserves more recognition and accolades. It also needs a price cut now.

As for service locations, they told me they would send a truck to pick up the car (within 150 miles) and provide a loaner for any service visit. I’m right around 150 miles away and the thought having the car trucked away like that wasn’t appealing.

 

[GSP]

Worrying about charging network is like worrying about charging speeds. 99% of my driving will be within home/work charging limits. The 1% of the time I need to road trip I still prefer ICE SUV for comfort, safety features, and range.

Buy an EV for the 99% of your driving and not the 1%. Nobody needs 300+ miles of highway range… it’s just nice to have a larger battery so you don’t constantly have to charge.

Now if you only have one car… I’d highly recommend a PHEV like the RAV4 Prime.

True about the 99%, any BEV with 200+ mile range works great with home charging. However, even if only 1% of my driving were road trips, I still need that capability. I could rent cars for road trips, but it is a bother, and Tesla road trips are so much nicer than ICE cars I am never going to rent an ICE. Also, EV drivers had issues with rental car availability during their holiday road trips. This usually occurred when they had to book a rental at the last minute, due to a change in travel plans. The founder of GM-VOLT dot com had this problem. He had to shoehorn his family of 5 into his 4 passenger Volt since he could not get a rental car.

I have two cars, and did consider owing only one EV suitable for road trips. However, when it came down to actually buying a car dedicated for only local travel, I decided that I really wanted *both* cars to be road trip capable. The reason was that if I had a mechanical issue with the road trip car at the last minute, I wanted to be able to just take my other car. Other people would be fine with this slight risk, but more ICE car households can do this, and I wanted to keep this capability.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

That's good info. While the news reports quote 'automatic emergency braking', the full PDF covers pedestrian detection, auto lane keeping (ALK), and emergency lane keeping (ELK) as well as regular passive safety features. Overall the i4 did not do well in those categories. Volvo C40 rechage, and thus Polestar 2, did better than i4 but still behind Tesla by a margin. I'm feeling more smug about my new Model 3 delivery tomorrow.

and that’s why it’s difficult to me to even look at non-Tesla cars, knowing that whatever alternative I get will be a downgrade in safety. I don’t want to ever think about the what-ifs in case myself/my family is ever involved in an accident. I just can’t do it.

Btw congrats on M3!

 

[Calliope]

uy an EV for the 99% of your driving and not the 1%.

Yup, if it's only 1%, but some of us do 300 mile round trips several times a month. That charging network makes a huge difference

 

[voxel]

True about the 99%, any BEV with 200+ mile range works great with home charging. However, even if only 1% of my driving were road trips, I still need that capability. I could rent cars for road trips, but it is a bother, and Tesla road trips are so much nicer than ICE cars I am never going to rent an ICE. Also, EV drivers had issues with rental car availability during their holiday road trips. This usually occurred when they had to book a rental at the last minute, due to a change in travel plans. The founder of GM-VOLT dot com had this problem. He had to shoehorn his family of 5 into his 4 passenger Volt since he could not get a rental car.

I have two cars, and did consider owing only one EV suitable for road trips. However, when it came down to actually buying a car dedicated for only local travel, I decided that I really wanted *both* cars to be road trip capable. The reason was that if I had a mechanical issue with the road trip car at the last minute, I wanted to be able to just take my other car. Other people would be fine with this slight risk, but more ICE car households can do this, and I wanted to keep this capability.

This is true if you came from older cars. My Telluride is a smooth, quiet, comfortable dream compared to the noisier and harsher Model Y. I measured 63 dB on the highway whereas my Model 3 and Y was 67 dB (still quiet though). I drove my 3 RWD to Miami to pick up the Telluride and drove that back 250 miles and the two trips couldn’t have felt different. I felt like I rode couch and the trip felt like only 50 miles.

Last week, I drove my Y 200 miles to trade it in for a BMW i4 and the difference between the ride quality was stunning. The Y was a skateboard on the highways - even with the smooth roads here in the Florida. I felt all microbumps. The trip back was far more pleasant and quieter too.

One major reason I dumped my RAV4 Prime in early 2022 was the ride was unpleasant. Buzzy nosy engine at highway speeds along with wind noise and a mediocre suspension. Toyotas aren’t for me.

 

[voxel]

Yup, if it's only 1%, but some of us do 300 mile round trips several times a month. That charging network makes a huge difference

For sure there are folks who road trip often in EVs and could benefit from 800V fast charging and long range EVs like the Model S and Lucid.

Most car owners only drive 30 miles a day and don’t take 300 mile round trips several times a month. I argue folks should be owning PHEVs as they are perfect “sole primary” cars.

 

[pipestem]

and that’s why it’s difficult to me to even look at non-Tesla cars, knowing that whatever alternative I get will be a downgrade in safety. I don’t want to ever think about the what-ifs in case myself/my family is ever involved in an accident. I just can’t do it.

Btw congrats on M3!

She’s a stunner:

 

[brainhouston]

I measured 63 dB on the highway whereas my Model 3 and Y was 67 dB (still quiet though).

Just curious how u did it? phone app?

 

[voxel]

Just curious how u did it? phone app?

Yes. Same phone app with all my EVs and gas cars. The noisiest being my Mach-Es over rough surfaces. That EV has poor road noise insulation. Wind noise doesn’t seem to raise the dB as much as I thought… it’s more of an isolated noise. Like a slow dripping faucet… not loud… just annoying

 

[smogne41]

Worrying about charging network is like worrying about charging speeds. 99% of my driving will be within home/work charging limits. The 1% of the time I need to road trip I still prefer ICE SUV for comfort, safety features, and range.

Buy an EV for the 99% of your driving and not the 1%. Nobody needs 300+ miles of highway range… it’s just nice to have a larger battery so you don’t constantly have to charge.

Now if you only have one car… I’d highly recommend a PHEV like the RAV4 Prime.

Yeah, this is not my experience at all. Our Model 3 is our only car and is mostly used for road trips. No way I would want a PHEV, I would get no EV benefit from that since most of my miles would end up gas-only. I would never even consider either a PHEV or an EV with less than ~260 miles range.

It is very unfortunate how unreliable the other non-Tesla charging networks are. Really seems like CCS is a technical disaster. Seriously, read some time about how mind-numbingly complicated its. It makes total sense how the car makers and the charger makers are having such a hard time making reliable CCS charging equipment. It is a 'standard' so complicated nobody can actually follow it! (kluges all the way down it seems).

 

[Calliope]

It is very unfortunate how unreliable the other non-Tesla charging networks are.

I hadn't realized how much that was true until I started long distance drives (to my cottage, mostly)......It was my change in driving patterns to include a longer commute and cottage trips that was the only reason I switched to a Tesla. I loved my Leaf, but an 80 mile (round trip) commute and trips to the cottage year 'round made it untenable.

 

[voxel]

Yeah, this is not my experience at all. Our Model 3 is our only car and is mostly used for road trips. No way I would want a PHEV, I would get no EV benefit from that since most of my miles would end up gas-only. I would never even consider either a PHEV or an EV with less than ~260 miles range.

It is very unfortunate how unreliable the other non-Tesla charging networks are. Really seems like CCS is a technical disaster. Seriously, read some time about how mind-numbingly complicated its. It makes total sense how the car makers and the charger makers are having such a hard time making reliable CCS charging equipment. It is a 'standard' so complicated nobody can actually follow it! (kluges all the way down it seems).

The cost of DC fast charging in parts of the US (i.e Florida) are actually more expensive than gas.

Let's look at a RAV4 Prime (36-38mpg on the highway) compared to say a Model Y (let's use 3.6 mi/kWh) with current AAA Florida gas prices at $3.46 (AAA Gas Prices) with a DC charging rate of $0.43/kWh (pretty normal for Florida... sometimes $0.52/kWh and sometimes in the 30s)

The RAV4 Prime is cheaper on the road trip and you don't have to stop every 200 miles and the suspension isn't rock hard.

CCS charging network is terrible but let's be honest.. the ride quality of the Tesla for long trips is pretty mediocre and due to increased Supercharger rates it's not cheaper to road trip either. Home/work charging is where the big savings lie.

My next Tesla will probably be an Model S... a friend who owned a 3 and Y basically has convinced me. He hates the ride quality of the 3 and Y and swears by the S's air suspension.