Everyone's definition of FUN is different, and it depends what vehicles you've driven. I have more fun in M3P than Model S Plaid. Model S is too big and not as nimble. Other people would disagree. We all have our personal preferences, and that is perfectly OK.
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What makes a car "fun to drive"?
- Thread starter MikeRTX
- Start date
I test drove the new model 3 and it's suspension is much less responsive than my MYP. I suppose that is what many people were looking for fromTesla - more comfortable suspension, but that always comes at the detriment of performance/sharpness unless on a high-end setup. Driving down a back road and pushing on, the new 3 felt like a bit of a boat so for me definitely less fun to drive than previous models. The up-side of that was a more refined all round driving experience.
If that’s what you believe, you’re wildly misinformed.
Having driven both, I’d say the snapping of the head back is similar. Not much of a snap in either case. But the rwd is simply a slow car.
scalbert03
Member
Did you read that part where I mentioned that it is a matter of perspective? To clarify, your definition of performance is the ability to push one of the pedals. You originally stated responsiveness and then clarified with throttle response.
For your second paragraph, feelings are irrelevant. That fact is that those who do drive on the track as more likely to understand the vehicle dynamics better as they have approach the limits. Therefore, they are superior at handling the vehicle at the limits. However, this is pretty irrelevant on the road unless in a highly precarious position.
I would suspect that those who do track their cars are less likely to put others at risk when on public roads. My drive home from a track day is often the slowest drives I have.
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hell no. my car is fun. period. resistence is futile.
Wow, I've gone all these years misinformed. Life is no longer worth living.
I grew up around autocross and HPDE. Done many track days in a variety of cars, mine and others'. i have driven all sorts of sports cars, model S plaid, owned some heavy hitters like the supra turbo, driven custom built racecars and a nascar on the track, my buddy's home made "ariel atom" clone(with a big honkin turbo)... etc.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you "fun to drive." From the standpoint of sheer smiles per mile, I think this takes the cake.
Not technically a car, but this ranks pretty high up there too:
In my mind, what makes a car fun is it's ability to ride the edges of traction in a controllable manner. The real fun is had when the driver is exploring the boundaries of their own abilities and the car's limits (in a controlled environment). That's part of what makes the civic so fun. With 185mm section width tires and extremely close gearing, you can drive 90% on public roads and have a blast without blatantly disregarding the law or public safety. Drive an atom at 90% on public roads and you'll kill someone or get arrested. It's just not fun unless it's on the track or the autocross course.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you "fun to drive." From the standpoint of sheer smiles per mile, I think this takes the cake.
Not technically a car, but this ranks pretty high up there too:
In my mind, what makes a car fun is it's ability to ride the edges of traction in a controllable manner. The real fun is had when the driver is exploring the boundaries of their own abilities and the car's limits (in a controlled environment). That's part of what makes the civic so fun. With 185mm section width tires and extremely close gearing, you can drive 90% on public roads and have a blast without blatantly disregarding the law or public safety. Drive an atom at 90% on public roads and you'll kill someone or get arrested. It's just not fun unless it's on the track or the autocross course.
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If you read that first post, I said for me fun to drive is responsiveness. To ME, responsiveness means that the vehicle responds when I want it to. And "respond" - again, to ME - relates to acceleration. That's just how I define it.
I'm fine if it means something else to you, but that's MY definition. After all, fun to drive is subjective, and will mean something different to others. Agreed?
Well stated. Driving at 10% really isn't much fun. Gotta find the sweet spots.
I always thought the CRX format would have made a great short range electric car. The 2nd gen was really lovely but in those days I could not afford even that. I barely bought the regular 1985 Civic Dx hatchback. Time changes everything.
Edit: good article on this car: https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/1988-1991-honda-crx-si-collectible-classic/
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rpiotro
Active Member
I'm quite sure that they are noisy on a bumpy road.
I owned two different Honda accords. Both of a vintage that still had unequal length wishbones front and rear. I would say they maybe didn't have the cornering Gs of other cars but they had the most precise steering of any cars I've owned. And I've driven a large number of cars. Including A Porsche 930, 911S, 924, 924 Turbo, 914 and 928 (No 944. Missed that one). Also a BMW 2002 and a 335. Should I go on? Audi A4, A3 and a '79 Audi 5000 turbo test car. A pre-release. A Mercedes SLK 350 (R172) that my wife drives. A 1978 1/2 Fiat Brava (131). Don't laugh. It was probably the most fun and toss able car I have ever owned. A Merkur, A DeTomaso Pantera (not that impressive), A Honda S2000. Also, a few I'm sure I have forgotten and a bunch not worth mentioning.
rpiotro
Active Member
Almost everything is a unibody these days. That has zip to do with the suspension. I guess your point went over my head.
You might actually want to try reading. All torque tells you is instantaneous acceleration at whatever rpm that torque spec is for. If you want to know how fast a car actually is, horsepower is the far more useful metric.Wow, I've gone all these years misinformed. Life is no longer worth living.
Ease up, dude, this ain't Engineering class. And personal jabs are frowned upon.
Most people generally use the word "fast" to express both quickness and high speed, because horsepower and torque are actually closely related. Big hp engines generally produce high torque.
I completely understand that torque relates more to "quickness" - the ability to turn rotating power into linear movement, whereas horsepower is more about the ability to do work over time, such as moving an object and maintaining its speed. To oversimplify, torque gets you moving and horsepower keeps you there. An imaginary engine with 1,000 hp and 100 ft-lbs of torque would still be a slug.
I've learned over the years that I personally enjoy torque is a little bit more than horsepower, all things being equal. And I think most people would agree torque gives you a better feeling of "power" than does horsepower. Which is why the people who have ridden in my car have trouble believing it's a 5.8 sec 0-60 car.
To me, fun = engagement, ideally at around town speed. Cars like GR86, Miata, CTR, or even Giulia are all pretty engaging to operate in everyday traffic, but you're usually paying heavily in comfort and convenience. Vehicles like modern BMWs and Audis have traded engagement for refinement and are now more "capable" than they are engaging. They're great to commute in but the only fun to be had with them is trying to tune and mod them to be even more capable, which gets harder and harder to use on the street. I feel like Tesla is a bit in the middle of these two worlds. The responsiveness, low-CG, and general drivetrain tuning are 10/10, unparalleled, and Autopilot rules for everyday driving but the suspension refinement and general Tesla jank get old after a while.
I did test drive the Highland RWD and coming out of a Model Y LR w/ accel boost, I felt the vehicle handled truly exceptionally. The steering felt way crisper than the AWD Teslas I've driven and the power level was such that you could actually drop the hammer without immediately breaking the speed limit. It was softer but still gripped super well, which is backed up by Edmunds recent skidpad testing. Reminded me a bit of the Miata, which is soft but fun. I'm sure the new M3P will be ridiculous and am considering one myself, but honestly I'm skeptical of the value of a $60K Model 3 with today's interest rates when the bulk of the capability is above what you can use on the road. Also, as an owner of several years, I'm super exhausted with Tesla gotchas. I want to concentrate on driving. Not on windshield wipers. Not on turn signals. Not on the ear-piercing bearing noise coming from my jank front drive unit.
I did test drive the Highland RWD and coming out of a Model Y LR w/ accel boost, I felt the vehicle handled truly exceptionally. The steering felt way crisper than the AWD Teslas I've driven and the power level was such that you could actually drop the hammer without immediately breaking the speed limit. It was softer but still gripped super well, which is backed up by Edmunds recent skidpad testing. Reminded me a bit of the Miata, which is soft but fun. I'm sure the new M3P will be ridiculous and am considering one myself, but honestly I'm skeptical of the value of a $60K Model 3 with today's interest rates when the bulk of the capability is above what you can use on the road. Also, as an owner of several years, I'm super exhausted with Tesla gotchas. I want to concentrate on driving. Not on windshield wipers. Not on turn signals. Not on the ear-piercing bearing noise coming from my jank front drive unit.
That’s not how it works at all. Power is a function of torque and speed. If you’re producing 1000 hp and only 100 lb-ft, that would mean your motor is spinning at about 52k RPMs. Which is an absurd rotational rate so it’s an absurd scenario in general. You would use gears to multiply torque and bring that power into a more usable range.
The big reason EVs give you the sensation of bit more kick is they usually make more torque off the line than an ICE. But that advantage goes away at like 40 mph if we’re talking about similar horsepower cars since the power starts dropping on EVs around there (Plaid is a major exception) and ICEs are well into their powerband.
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