What defines acceptable battery condition?

[SSedan]

My 2014 P85 with 85k needs a charger at $2200, full pads and rotors including parking brake pads which is $700 in parts from aftermarket sources.
TPMS module went out disabling the car because it jammed up CANBUS communication. Battery pack heater went out disabling the car a week after the TPMS.

I sprung for 4 year maintainence at $800.

Also now this is a cost on all newer vehicles but it lets me poke holes in the "Cost me nothing" argument. The TPMS sensors have batteries that die, nobody seems to include those costs, service center suggested to me the new style updates frequently causing shorter life.

On my car the module died so I upgraded to the new system for $628 I think it was. I also upgraded the cellular module to 4G while it was in for service

 

[vitesse]

Can you expand on why the colour of the car is significant?

Me reference to owners feedback is from owners here in the UK. I also keep an eye on what the many Nordic owners are saying. It goes without saying the stresses on a vehicle will be different according to the environment they will be operating in.

In fact, although you are very passionate about the reliability points you have highlighted, I don't think I have made any over optimistic claims or assumptions in this area.

In the end, a Tesla is an expensive luxury car and like all cars in this category when they go wrong they will be expensive to fix. I've known this all along.

One thing you have to watch for is that a substantial portion of the information is from California Tesla owners, very mild climate. Also I did not say the brakes wear out, I said corrosion and lubricant being washed away or drying out cause issues. Never been to either but it is my understanding that the UK and California have different climates. The UK climate is going to be one that could cause corrosion issues in the brakes.
Also there are different things to fail an onboard charger is $2200 over here, that is nearly what a transmission costs, a charge port is I think $500 and those do wear from the plugging unplugging as can the UMC plug.
12volt battery tends to be shorter lived than in an ICE.

Far as seeing lots of engine troubles in ICE that is a new one by me everyone I know has no major troubles with unmodified engines regardless of brand.

Just to be clear I love my car but in my experience and opinion this "EVs have nothing to go wrong and the whole car lasts forever" idea pushed by the sycophants is an outright lie.

Another thing is that if the car you are looking at is red they are very hard on back tires since so much regenerative braking and all your acceleration happens with them. This car is more sensitive to tire rotation than anything else I have experience with, dual motor cars spread the wear around, but annually even if not rotating the tires you should lubricate the brakes.

 

[SSedan]

70,000 miles in 3 years is quite high and I wonder if it has mainly been supercharged, which could be an issue for battery degradation. On the other hand, I'm not at all worried about mechanical wear and tear in comparison to a conventional car.

This is what I am addressing apparently unsuccessfully.

 

[TonyT]

The term lasting forever is loosely used, I agree Every single ICE I've had has needed new parts like alternator, starter, etc before or around 100k miles. Not necessary major issues, but much more maintenance than ev. Tesla repair costs are artificially high right now because they don't release things necessary for others to repair and limited repair option. Hopefully there will be much more reasonable repair prices soon as more and more EV's on the road.

Actually the S has been the easiest car for me to maintain/repair. Many parts are easy to get on and off, so it's fine if your good with a wrench. Repairs needed have been minimal.

 

[vitesse]

This is what I am addressing apparently unsuccessfully.

OK, well I hope I have clarified things. I was mainly addressing engine/gearbox issues. In the last 20 years I nearly lost the engine on my Honda Prelude when the timing belt tensioner failed on the motorway at speed. I had a Seat Toledo V5 and it lost all its oil - thankfully on my driveway rather than when driving along. The same car had head gasket issues as well. The first (2006) Mazda 6 Sport I had experienced a stretched timing chain. Clutch and master cylinder replacements have happened a couple of times (we drive manuals more over here). Two of my cars also needed new radiators. Exhaust parts as well. Apart from new discs and pads, the out going 2009 Mazda 6 Sport 2.5 has been very reliable and we added 64,000 miles since we had it and it's on 108K miles now. I'm not personally aware of the need to lubricate disc brakes over here, but my days of DIY servicing ended a long time ago!

So I don't think we have any disagreement apart from, perhaps, the idea that ICE's are more or less reliable than electric motors. But my peace of mind is that Tesla will take care of an electric motor if it fails, which is - I understand - very rare, though I have read reports from those that needed new motors.

The main Model S issues I will be wary of are failing door handles and the 17 inch screen. I'm sure other things can and will go wrong but such things also happen to Mercs, BMWs and even, if more rarely, Toyotas.

I'm certainly not buying a Tesla for reliability. We've wanted to go electric for some time. Renewable electricity is easy to get here and it's getting a lot cheaper, too. It's our bit to make a statement about saving the planet as well as a status thing but the choice of EVs, while growing, is still not very inspiring. We looked at the Model 3 but it has no hatchback and I, personally, don't like the minimalist dashboard - which may be a deal breaker when the Y comes out. In the UK nobody has received a 3 yet and while deliveries could start soon, if I ordered one now I would probably have to wait at least a year.

The Nissan Leaf is dreadfully dull and not much cheaper than a used 3 year old Model S with a much more luxurious specification. So that's where we are. No illusions, honest!

 

[vitesse]

@SSedan - I'd still like to be educated on the colour red factor!

 

[vitesse]

My 2014 P85 with 85k needs a charger at $2200, full pads and rotors including parking brake pads which is $700 in parts from aftermarket sources.
TPMS module went out disabling the car because it jammed up CANBUS communication. Battery pack heater went out disabling the car a week after the TPMS.

I sprung for 4 year maintainence at $800.

Also now this is a cost on all newer vehicles but it lets me poke holes in the "Cost me nothing" argument. The TPMS sensors have batteries that die, nobody seems to include those costs, service center suggested to me the new style updates frequently causing shorter life.

On my car the module died so I upgraded to the new system for $628 I think it was. I also upgraded the cellular module to 4G while it was in for service

My current Mazda has had a TPMS module replaced, though all that happened was the tyre pressure warning light stubbornly stayed on. I'm also going for 2 year later car than yours and there seems to be a lot of evidence that Tesla has been steadily improving its manufacturing, which is only to be expected of course.If you only needed new pads (and not new discs as well) after 85,000 miles, that's very reassuring.

 

[MrRandyB]

@SSedan - I'd still like to be educated on the colour red factor!

I think he meant to say RWD - rear wheel drive

 

[vitesse]

I think he meant to say RWD - rear wheel drive

OK - I did briefly think that, but my first post did say I was looking to get an 85D. Dual motor is a must for efficienc and safer handling in all conditions in my view. It's rare in conventional cars, so another reason lo go for a Tesla S.

 

[TonyT]

OK, well I hope I have clarified things. I was mainly addressing engine/gearbox issues. In the last 20 years I nearly lost the engine on my Honda Prelude when the timing belt tensioner failed on the motorway at speed. I had a Seat Toledo V5 and it lost all its oil - thankfully on my driveway rather than when driving along. The same car had head gasket issues as well. The first (2006) Mazda 6 Sport I had experienced a stretched timing chain. Clutch and master cylinder replacements have happened a couple of times (we drive manuals more over here). Two of my cars also needed new radiators. Exhaust parts as well. Apart from new discs and pads, the out going 2009 Mazda 6 Sport 2.5 has been very reliable and we added 64,000 miles since we had it and it's on 108K miles now. I'm not personally aware of the need to lubricate disc brakes over here, but my days of DIY servicing ended a long time ago!

So I don't think we have any disagreement apart from, perhaps, the idea that ICE's are more or less reliable than electric motors. But my peace of mind is that Tesla will take care of an electric motor if it fails, which is - I understand - very rare, though I have read reports from those that needed new motors.

The main Model S issues I will be wary of are failing door handles and the 17 inch screen. I'm sure other things can and will go wrong but such things also happen to Mercs, BMWs and even, if more rarely, Toyotas.

I'm certainly not buying a Tesla for reliability. We've wanted to go electric for some time. Renewable electricity is easy to get here and it's getting a lot cheaper, too. It's our bit to make a statement about saving the planet as well as a status thing but the choice of EVs, while growing, is still not very inspiring. We looked at the Model 3 but it has no hatchback and I, personally, don't like the minimalist dashboard - which may be a deal breaker when the Y comes out. In the UK nobody has received a 3 yet and while deliveries could start soon, if I ordered one now I would probably have to wait at least a year.

The Nissan Leaf is dreadfully dull and not much cheaper than a used 3 year old Model S with a much more luxurious specification. So that's where we are. No illusions, honest!

The pins on brakes need to be lubed. Normal brake service does that, and fine when you replace brakes 20-40k miles etc. Problem with EV and Hybrid is that brakes are rarely used, so they dont get serviced till 100-500k miles... Not uncommon. so 5-10 years of no service and parts can dry up.. Also since they are not used frequently they can seize more easily, especially in harsh climate. So in general it would be good idea to have your brakes serviced with ev/hybrid even though the pads are fine.

Sounds like your expectations are properly set and will be enjoying S ownership and driving. I had many similar thoughts and decided it would not be hard for me to service most items. I'm really enjoying my ownership and driving. The last 4 months have been an awesome 12k miles of driving!

Keep learning so you know more what to expect. Your asking great questions.

 

[Rocky_H]

Another thing is that if the car you are looking at is red they are very hard on back tires

Heh, nice!

I'd still like to be educated on the colour red factor!

I think he meant to say RWD - rear wheel drive

Oh. I thought that was an obvious intentional joke. People have the nickname "cop magnet red" or "arrest me red" for good reason. It's just a human nature correlation of people who would buy red cars speeding more, accelerating harder, and generally driving more aggressively. I just checked, though, and despite the perception on that, the insurance industry still doesn't figure that into car insurance rates.

 

[TonyT]

The biggest Issue I've had with tesla is getting parts. With that said things have recently been improving a LOT.

 

[vitesse]

The pins on brakes need to be lubed. Normal brake service does that, and fine when you replace brakes 20-40k miles etc. Problem with EV and Hybrid is that brakes are rarely used, so they dont get serviced till 100-500k miles... Not uncommon. so 5-10 years of no service and parts can dry up.. Also since they are not used frequently they can seize more easily, especially in harsh climate. So in general it would be good idea to have your brakes serviced with ev/hybrid even though the pads are fine.

Sounds like your expectations are properly set and will be enjoying S ownership and driving. I had many similar thoughts and decided it would not be hard for me to service most items. I'm really enjoying my ownership and driving. The last 4 months have been an awesome 12k miles of driving!

Keep learning so you know more what to expect. Your asking great questions.

Thanks @TonyT I will ensure the brakes are checked over annually. 12K miles in four months - that's some motoring!

The used 85D we have reserved over two weeks ago is still being prepared by the dealer - maybe they are waiting on parts!

 

[evalst2018]

All,

Could you kindly share your degradation metrics on your Tesla Model S. I too have had about 13% degradation, and Tesla is not willing to stand behind their product. As a proud owner and a shareholder, I am very disappointed by this. I have other Evs, and the degradation has been nothing close to this. I do feel the 90-pack has some issues that have not been present in the 85.

I have created a public Google sheet aimed at tracking Tesla Model S degradation vs Mileage. Can you share your numbers:

Tesla Model S Battery Degradation

(Please share and circulate this post)