daily. actually i go from 100% (max range charge) to about 2-5% daily on my P85. every day. (yes I max range charge daily).
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daily. actually i go from 100% (max range charge) to about 2-5% daily on my P85. every day. (yes I max range charge daily).
Mark Z
Active Member
Sounds to me that the 25 mph is referencing using the included charge cord at 40 amps. When using the HPWC or other high amperage J1772, then the charge rate would approach 30 mph since it uses the full 48 amps. A simple test with Model S can help check these charge rates.
A 72 amp rate would have to be IF and IMHO, Tesla Motors was to design a new DC wall connector that features conversion from AC to DC. Since Tesla Motors has stopped selling dual chargers for installation at the factory, it would have seemed strange for Model S to be at 40 amps from the factory and the Model X at 72 amps. With this change, Model S will be at 40 amps, Model X at 48 amps, dual charger service center install for Model S for 80 amps and MAYBE some 72 amp DC EVSE unit as suggested above.
Wouldn't it make sense for Tesla to ship the cars with the charger that works with the RV parks and charging at home without all the cut off switches and super expensive installations that a 100 amp install is now requiring? For those customers and locations that need faster charging, they won't have to modify anything with the Model S or X IF a DC charge unit was available in the future. Just my thoughts, so don't start any rumors.
PS: I was on the phone with Tesla Motors today. The charger included with Model X is a 12 kW model with 48 amp maximum charge rate. She was specific that the 72 amp charger is not being used and may not be available in the future. She even "sold" me on the 20% increase over Model S. That is TRUE when you consider the 40 amp maximum from the factory with Model S.
A 72 amp rate would have to be IF and IMHO, Tesla Motors was to design a new DC wall connector that features conversion from AC to DC. Since Tesla Motors has stopped selling dual chargers for installation at the factory, it would have seemed strange for Model S to be at 40 amps from the factory and the Model X at 72 amps. With this change, Model S will be at 40 amps, Model X at 48 amps, dual charger service center install for Model S for 80 amps and MAYBE some 72 amp DC EVSE unit as suggested above.
Wouldn't it make sense for Tesla to ship the cars with the charger that works with the RV parks and charging at home without all the cut off switches and super expensive installations that a 100 amp install is now requiring? For those customers and locations that need faster charging, they won't have to modify anything with the Model S or X IF a DC charge unit was available in the future. Just my thoughts, so don't start any rumors.
PS: I was on the phone with Tesla Motors today. The charger included with Model X is a 12 kW model with 48 amp maximum charge rate. She was specific that the 72 amp charger is not being used and may not be available in the future. She even "sold" me on the 20% increase over Model S. That is TRUE when you consider the 40 amp maximum from the factory with Model S.
LOL
I think what they are trying to say is that the ON BOARD charger can take up to 72A, but they only a NEMA 14-50 adapter is coming with the UMC with the car. So if you want to take advantage of the full 72A, you'll have to purcahse extra a HPWC. That's the way I translate their horrific communication.
That's what they were trying to say, but it is the older information. The Model X ON BOARD charger can now only take up to 48A. Model X comes with the same UMC package the Model S comes with, capable of delivering only 40A. If you want 48A, you must use a Wall Charger.
it would seem to me that this is the bad piece of communication from them. it sounds like whoever said that got it wrong.
I still hope it is not true or that a modification is forthcoming.
Has one of the signature reservation holders or Founders confirmed this:
"MX is only capable of being charged at 48A at non-SC locations."
?
I am a Signature reservation holder. I received the news from a reliable source at Tesla, and Mark Z then heard it after asking his delivery specialist. It was reconfirmed in an e-mail to me today.
Yes - "MX is only capable of being charged at 48A at non-SC locations."
It is usually the case that the most pessimistic rumor about Model X is the correct one...
I still think that the fact that specs like this haven't been officially released one month after the official "release" if the Model X is interesting in itself. The car just isn't really finished...
I still think that the fact that specs like this haven't been officially released one month after the official "release" if the Model X is interesting in itself. The car just isn't really finished...
I don't think so. We now have two very reliable reports that the Model X single onboard AC charger is max 12kW.
roblab
Active Member
I'm glad you said "less" useful. Destination charging is supposed to be at a destination, right? Where you stay overnight? So the car will be plugged in for like maybe ten hours? So, in my understanding of destination charging, a 30 amp charger would do the trick.
I strongly support just having destinations supply a 14-50 outlet. I have only ever used 40 amps or less when not using supercharging. So I guess I have never understood the rationale of putting in a high priced "charger" (switch) when the UMC does the same thing. I have never needed to charge my car in a few hours when I arrive at a destination.
And destinations seem to be concerned that a "Tesla" charger cannot be used by any other EV customers, while an outlet can. Also, "destinations" that use Tesla's higher powered chargers often charge higher powered rates to stay and use their special box. Like double. But I may be wrong. Only my experience.
Often, my destination is a motel with a 14-50 outlet, or the house of a friend / relative who has put in an outlet. We drove 82,000 miles in our S in the last 3 years. I have not found the 80 amp (or 70 amp) "charger" to be useful at all.
When it was all that Roadster owners had, the higher power charger was a game changer, but with supercharging building out every day, not so much.
Maybe when they are upgrading the single chargers to 48a but not necessarily excluding the possibility of dual chargers. 96A for dual chargers on 120A circuit? Maybe people are disappointed with commercial charging sites being 208v instead of 240v. 208v * 96A = 20KW
Maybe new HPWC to go along with 96A charging too.
Maybe new HPWC to go along with 96A charging too.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
I've gone on a couple trips where I had to use a free-of-charge HPWC for me to make the trip happen where Superchargers aren't available. Two of them I know aren't Tesla destination HPWC, but I'm unsure of the others. While I would have survived on a single charger, having dual chargers on my S helped limit the time I have to burn sitting in my car.
In Greenville there is an 80 amp one for making Atlanta viable in a 60/70 and comfortable in a 85, and in Fort Lauderdale there is a 64 amp one that I've used all week. Both of these have been used by me in October, so it's recent knowledge. But again, I could have hit a J1772 if those weren't there or plugged in my UMC. I'd just be sitting around longer than the two hours I already had to for sufficient charge to carry on.
Now, if these places put in 80 amp J1772s, that's a win-win!
For overnight 48A is plenty. There are times on trips where maybe a stop at a mall or service center that doesn't have Super Chargers where 80A is still very useful. It sounds like not not maybe people opted for the twin chargers so they dropped it. 72A rumor didn't sound that bad but 48A with no option to upgrade is less desirable.
Not an every day event, but it does happen, especially on the weekends (lots of trips from NoVA to Baltimore and back.)
If they did make such a decision (probably so), it was likely done because the impact would be excruciatingly small.
It sucks for the people who rely on it right now, but the arguments from most people remind me of EV range anxiety. "I wouldn't buy an EV until it has a 700 mile range battery!" I could definitely say the same about charging speed. I read somewhere that a majority of owners, including MS owners, charge at 110v speeds for regular daily use. You only need to charge fast enough to cover your average daily commute, and superchargers are proliferating enough to make any other use case for fast home chargers obsolete. Twin Chargers is likely a relic from an area where most customers lacked supercharging access, but isn't needed for 99%+ of their customers now.
Home chademo definitely looks like an option for those who truly need the blazing fast home charging speed (i.e., 4 hour charge window for super off peak rates while having a regular 250 mile commute). Just keep in mind your average joe schmoe commutes <40 miles daily, doesn't even have a utility offering TOU billing, and is close enough to a supercharger or chademo if necessary. I mean Tesla could probably offer tri-chargers in the Model S if they wanted, but they didn't go with it because it's a fringe case. Supercharger expansion and chademo adapter makes the dual charger situation into even more of a fringe case.
Just think of it like folding seats, some people will be broken by it but a majority of the target audience won't care or be phased at all.
It sucks for the people who rely on it right now, but the arguments from most people remind me of EV range anxiety. "I wouldn't buy an EV until it has a 700 mile range battery!" I could definitely say the same about charging speed. I read somewhere that a majority of owners, including MS owners, charge at 110v speeds for regular daily use. You only need to charge fast enough to cover your average daily commute, and superchargers are proliferating enough to make any other use case for fast home chargers obsolete. Twin Chargers is likely a relic from an area where most customers lacked supercharging access, but isn't needed for 99%+ of their customers now.
Home chademo definitely looks like an option for those who truly need the blazing fast home charging speed (i.e., 4 hour charge window for super off peak rates while having a regular 250 mile commute). Just keep in mind your average joe schmoe commutes <40 miles daily, doesn't even have a utility offering TOU billing, and is close enough to a supercharger or chademo if necessary. I mean Tesla could probably offer tri-chargers in the Model S if they wanted, but they didn't go with it because it's a fringe case. Supercharger expansion and chademo adapter makes the dual charger situation into even more of a fringe case.
Just think of it like folding seats, some people will be broken by it but a majority of the target audience won't care or be phased at all.
I suspect they made the decision because they had decided to go with a a single charger and in the end couldn't source higher amperage chargers (supplier let them down). 48 amps is suspiciously close to 40 amps. It is possible you could use the 40 amp charger and tweak a few components here and there and make it a 48 amp charger. Just a wild assed guess...
Here's the thing with that. You're envisioning a world where you're the only MS at the destination, or maybe only one of two. I've been to two destinations in the last year with HPWCs (RC Half Moon Bay and Portland Westin) where we had trouble getting the charge we needed at the time we needed it. At the RC, we were told we were in queue when we valeted the night before check-out. I checked the phone a few times, went to bed, and when I woke at 7am, checked again. Still not charged. I called the valet and they confirmed that I was still in queue. We had to leave later than expected because of this, and they had a HPWC.
In Portland, the story was slightly different. Both of their HPWCs were taken when we returned the car, but we were told it would be plugged in shortly. They overlooked it, and again we woke to find it wasn't charged. Thankfully, it was a HPWC, we have dual chargers, and the charge happened quickly. If they'd had only 14-50s, or if we'd had less on-board charging capacity, our delay would have been greater. This was especially a big deal because we were facing a 10 hour driving day with two kids.
I have maybe too much optimism - I see a world with a lot of Tesla vehicles at destination chargers. I don't want it to be competitive, so the more onboard charging capacity I have, the better. I can free up the power for another vehicle.
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