Unusual tire wear

[SeminoleFSU]

Hello all,
I'm wondering if some of you more mechanically inclined members can offer me some insights... I had my alignment done by Tesla at approx 69k miles. I noticed when they were finished that the car (which always drove straight as an arrow) pulled slightly to the left after the alignment. I didn't think much about it (perhaps just tire pressure?) so I drove it another 5-6k miles and was ready to rotate the tires again, so I brought it to my local discount tire. They removed the tires and showed me very aggressive inside wear on both the tires (front and rear) on the driver's side. The front was so worn that it had threads coming out and they refused to put the tire back on. They gave me a used tire they pulled off another car and replaced that one in the front. Now I'm wondering... What could cause BOTH the front and rear to wear the tire on the inside so aggressively?

I spoke to the service manager at Tesla Decatur, GA and he was pushing back on giving me a free alignment saying that it could have gotten knocked out during the 5-6k I drove it.... saying I should have brought it back in right away when I noticed the pulling to the left. Not that it would have mattered, I'm now on appointment #3 they've had to cancel on me just 30-45m before the appointment... At this rate I'll add another 5k-6k miles before I can get it back into them..... LOL

I've basically started calling around to local alignment shops since I have no idea if Tesla will keep the appointment, and I'm not sure they did the alignment right in the first place. I've NEVER had any vehicle (out of 6-7 cars in my lifetime) wear tires like this... many of which I only had alignments done when I had new tires put on the car... rotate and balance until the tires need replacing, etc... wash, rinse, repeat. Something doesn't feel quite right about this considering I've never had unusual wear on any car outside of the Tesla... I think I did have some inside tire wear on the rears at first, but I want to say Tesla fixed that early on... back before I even had 25k miles on it. I went from 25-75k-ish without an issue and now this is what I'm running into. . thoughts?

 

[The Duke]

Could you post the paper Tesla gave you after the first alignment? Tire pictures will help as well.

Start getting names and documenting dates, times and events. Get a tire wear gage and learn to use it. Alignment on the Tesla is crucial, not so much as my Pantera was, but still has to be within specs. See if you can contact other Tesla owners in your area for comparison. It sounds like the alignment guy is doing something wrong.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Thank you sir. I'll see if I can dig it up. I think they normally give tire tread depth as well as alignment (although i'm not sure if that's a before or after measurement)... you can tell I pretty much just file those away other than reading the narratives to see what action was taken (if any) on the issues I bring to them.

 

[cmarshack]

My MS P85 has about 55k miles on it now and I only got 10k miles out of my rear tires. I was shocked when I got a flat and saw that the inner cords had worn through with plenty of tread on the rest of the tire (see pic). I have an appt with the service center to sort this out, but your comment made me wonder if the rear dampers on these cars are failing after 50k miles. The car tracks straight, but the rear is severely wearing on the inside. So, either my rear camber is very negative, or the rear dampers are letting the car fall too far into it's travel, which causes even more negative camber (or both).

Has anyone had issues with the rear dampers in their MS? (I have adaptive air suspension for the record)

 

[Lloyd]

Rear Camber is set at about -1Degree and is not adjustable. Rear Toe will cause this when it is off.

New tires, align the car. Consider purchasing the aftermarket rear camber arms to remove the -1 degree.

I have the aftermarket arms and am very happy with the tire wear after installing them on my P85+

 

[The Duke]

After they align the car they give you a sheet that has before and after. Look for RED and do not accept anything out of spec.

I also ask what ride height they set the alignment at and if I don't get a straight answer I know to check further. Nicki is set at low ride height as that is 99% of my driving. Don't let them set the alignment at high ride height, this is a common mistake because they jack up the car for service and inspection then fail to take reset the ride height before aligning. Tesla is not alone in this error BTW.

 

[cmarshack]

After they align the car they give you a sheet that has before and after. Look for RED and do not accept anything out of spec.

I also ask what ride height they set the alignment at and if I don't get a straight answer I know to check further. Nicki is set at low ride height as that is 99% of my driving. Don't let them set the alignment at high ride height, this is a common mistake because they jack up the car for service and inspection then fail to take reset the ride height before aligning. Tesla is not alone in this error BTW.

^ All of my driving is at the lowest setting as well and this was going to be my ask when I drop it off. Thank you for the validation that this can be done.

 

[Svandevo]

Add one more severe inner tire wear especially on rears. Found during first 12,500 mile service. I’m probably going to have to buy 4 tires even though there is still 8/32 left except for the very inner shoulder as others have posted.

 

[EVTuning]

I sell adjustable camber bushings to help alleviate a lot of this problem. There a couple dozen people on here that have bought them and installed them. It comes with the removal tool and removes the inner camber bushing and replaces it with a urethane bushing with a metal eccentric and keyed bolt to help dial out the camber. It's design is almost identical to how the front camber and caster are adjusted. The wear you're seeing is a combination of the non-adjustable camber and the toe is probably out of spec as well so you're literally scrubbing the tire down the road. After installing the adjustable bushings and setting things properly I have seen in upwards of 6% increase in range due to less rolling resistance from not scrubbing the tires down the road.

 

[cmarshack]

I sell adjustable camber bushings to help alleviate a lot of this problem. There a couple dozen people on here that have bought them and installed them. It comes with the removal tool and removes the inner camber bushing and replaces it with a urethane bushing with a metal eccentric and keyed bolt to help dial out the camber. It's design is almost identical to how the front camber and caster are adjusted. The wear you're seeing is a combination of the non-adjustable camber and the toe is probably out of spec as well so you're literally scrubbing the tire down the road. After installing the adjustable bushings and setting things properly I have seen in upwards of 6% increase in range due to less rolling resistance from not scrubbing the tires down the road.

I just ordered these from you and can't wait to get them on the Model S!

 

[EVTuning]

Awesome! I'm hoping to have more by the end of the week. Australia works on it's own time and so does customs I should have a good stock for while once the new shipment shows up thankfully! I promise you'll be happy and it makes a big difference with no draw backs in terms of NVH or other issues.

 

[TaoJones]

I sell adjustable camber bushings to help alleviate a lot of this problem. There a couple dozen people on here that have bought them and installed them. It comes with the removal tool and removes the inner camber bushing and replaces it with a urethane bushing with a metal eccentric and keyed bolt to help dial out the camber. It's design is almost identical to how the front camber and caster are adjusted. The wear you're seeing is a combination of the non-adjustable camber and the toe is probably out of spec as well so you're literally scrubbing the tire down the road. After installing the adjustable bushings and setting things properly I have seen in upwards of 6% increase in range due to less rolling resistance from not scrubbing the tires down the road.

Just had an alignment today (not at Tesla) - they would have liked to have adjusted the rear camber from the non-adjustable -1.9 down to -0.3. But of course could not.

Am headed to your site to order your product *now*. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[EVTuning]

Great if you have any questions let me know.

 

[The Duke]

Just had an alignment today (not at Tesla) - they would have liked to have adjusted the rear camber from the non-adjustable -1.9 down to -0.3. But of course could not.

Am headed to your site to order your product *now*. Thanks for the heads up.

Could you post your final sheet? What settings did you wind up with?
I am seeing some variation in what is possible with rear camber, I am assuming production tolerance, but not sure. My tire wear is perfect at 30K miles the Michelin Sports are about gone but very evenly and I am all stock. I would not set the camber that low, maybe -0.5 or -0.7 if you drive a lot of hard corners.

 

[EVTuning]

Could you post your final sheet? What settings did you wind up with?
I am seeing some variation in what is possible with rear camber, I am assuming production tolerance, but not sure. My tire wear is perfect at 30K miles the Michelin Sports are about gone but very evenly and I am all stock. I would not set the camber that low, maybe -0.5 or -0.7 if you drive a lot of hard corners.

There are two variations of the subframe and up to 3 different versions of camber arms depending on build date and production trim level. Base RWD and P85 have one of two version of arms, (difference being bushing diameter of 41.5 vs 43.5 and stiffness of rubber) dual motors have one arm and face lifted RWD Model S and Model X have a third style. Also performance and non performance or with or without air suspension and 19” or 21” wheels have different specs that have been changed more than once by Tesla.

 

[TaoJones]

There are two variations of the subframe and up to 3 different versions of camber arms depending on build date and production trim level. Base RWD and P85 have one of two version of arms, (difference being bushing diameter of 41.5 vs 43.5 and stiffness of rubber) dual motors have one arm and face lifted RWD Model S and Model X have a third style. Also performance and non performance or with or without air suspension and 19” or 21” wheels have different specs that have been changed more than once by Tesla.

That helps clarify a lot. Having gotten near 60K with the OEM Michelins on the first car (RWD S85) and only 26K from the OEM Goodyear Eagle Touring tires with the second car (2017 S90D), I wondered what had changed, since my driving style hasn't much over the past 100,000 miles or so across the 2 cars.

Here's a picture of last week's right rear GET when they were being swapped out at 26K miles for a new set of Cinturatos. The idea being that if I get over 50K with the Cinturatos *and* if they are even a decibel quieter than the Primacys were during the last half of their life, then it's a win. FYI, both the Cinturatos and the Primacys are very close in price now. The Primacys with a 45,000 mile warranty, and the Pirellis with a 70,000 mile warranty - although fair warning, Pirelli is a pain in the ass wrt warranties - must be shoulder to shoulder even wear *at the wear bars*, whereas Michelin has been considerably less stringent.

I'll make a note to post a new final sheet of alignment numbers in about 2 weeks after the adjustable bushings installation and a re-alignment.