Tesla's share price is probably more centred on FSD and AI than anything, just look at how AI has blown up some tech stocks recently. They might not have solved it yet but if they can show something credible then the stock market will probably lap it up.
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[UK] Report that Tesla not going to produce low cost “Model 2”
- Thread starter DoricJim
- Start date
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Even if it is "ready" that will mean ready for some part of the US market. It will be a long long time before it is ready for the UK market either legislatively or technically. Meanwhile all the sales of vehicles smaller than an M3, which in the UK is a lot I would think, will go to someone else. If the economics aren't there for them that's there decision but I think the market is there in Europe.
I guess it depends on what Tesla wants to be seen as and their position in the market. If they want the small car market, then they need to be extremely aggressive on price and will need large volume because the margins will be low. They don't have to risk playing in that market where there's a good chance the Chinese will likely eat them for breakfast.
At higher price points, it's no longer just the cheapest car that gets you from A to B or with little extra spending power of the consumer. They might be prepared to sink a bit more money in if they value the car higher. I think that's where Tesla at least currently can win out on software, charging network and so on.
I still think it's a bit of an issue for a company at least in RHD to be worth as much as Tesla and all their eggs are in the basket of literally just 2 car models. What about a Model 3 Estate? More efficient than the Y but with much better boot space.
What about a bit more higher end Model Y? I think the S and X might well die off but extend the wheel base to make it a better 7 seater? Air suspension for extra comfort but none of the costly things like the X's doors.
If S and X die off, they maybe just need to ship the Roadster to have their Halo product. Do a mix of performance options off that.
There's likely room here to grow their market share without going into the massive but hugely competitive smaller car segment. Also is a tiny small car a good robotaxi? Surely Model 3 is about the right size unless the assumption is no front seats but it's so far from being ready without a steering wheel or driver.
He probably cannot confirm or deny particulars about company plans or timescales. Its not unknown for journos to speculate on something based on sliver of information to try and draw out things a company is not ready to share.
I did find this amusing though when on the same day he says Liar to Reuters about Tesla dropping the drivable Model 2 focusing on the Robotaxi, then he announces a date when they'll talk about the Robotaxi...
He's not really debunking their article.A sliver of information is a bit of stretch, no? Quite a lot of detail in the article.
There's generally no smoke without fire and Reuters appear to have been substantially correct to me. The Model 2 plans if not abandoned appear to have been completely reworked and some form of mashup of existing parts and changes are what we can expect. I'm still not sure what they can take out of a RWD M3 to make it cheaper to make.. smaller battery, remove the rear screen, remove the charging pads? Its pretty minimalist as it is
To make it a workable focused city car they're going to need to make it a lot smaller, I'm not sure where they can do that on the current chassis, perhaps a smaller battery than the RWD?
Does sound remarkably like Reuters got it bang on and Musk is relying on the Robotaxi narrative holding up enough not to get him ousted.
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As I read it, basically they're abandoning the unboxed build process (Tesla's Radical "Unboxed" Manufacturing Technique Could Reduce Costs by 50% - Core77 provides a reasonable explanation) and going with traditional assembly, which will require less retooling.
I don't read it as the "model 2" being a parts-bin "model 3", just that they're not completing redesigning the assembly process.
Could be down to wanting to get to market faster (a good product too late won't make the impact an adequate product at the right time), could be that they've found that the unboxed design isn't coming together the way they hoped, could be they want to polish their EPS by delaying investment.
I don't read it as the "model 2" being a parts-bin "model 3", just that they're not completing redesigning the assembly process.
Could be down to wanting to get to market faster (a good product too late won't make the impact an adequate product at the right time), could be that they've found that the unboxed design isn't coming together the way they hoped, could be they want to polish their EPS by delaying investment.
ElectricPolice
Member
Not being an "AI" kind of guy I switched off after 30 mins of listening to the livestream.
Everything to me was predominantly focused on FSD and autonomy and all questions seemed to lead to the same answers about this. Don't think I'm on the same planet as these guys?
Personnally don't want my car doing extra hours as a taxi. Not the sort of dynamic I'm after but each to there own.
I'm one for choice for the individual. I still want to drive my car, sorry, until the FSD thing is mainstream and the thought of still driving is absurd!
Would definately be interested in a cheaper Model 2 type Tesla though to replace my Zoe as the local shopping car!!
Everything to me was predominantly focused on FSD and autonomy and all questions seemed to lead to the same answers about this. Don't think I'm on the same planet as these guys?
Personnally don't want my car doing extra hours as a taxi. Not the sort of dynamic I'm after but each to there own.
I'm one for choice for the individual. I still want to drive my car, sorry, until the FSD thing is mainstream and the thought of still driving is absurd!
Would definately be interested in a cheaper Model 2 type Tesla though to replace my Zoe as the local shopping car!!
The whole Robotaxi and sudden change of heart on Model 2 smells like desperation to me. I for one will not buy another Tesla on PCP as it is. With prices going up and down by the month, I can't trust the value of the car.
I can't see many people wanting a smaller Tesla now, there is already too much competition at the prices they want to sell at. Why would I buy a smaller battery M2 when I can buy something else now? I wouldn't be buying one for long distance driving so just charging at home, meaning I don't have to worry about the Super Charger Network.
If I didn't worry about the SC network, I wouldn't touch Tesla to be honest.
Seems like Tesla/Elon have lost their way a little bit here.
I can't see many people wanting a smaller Tesla now, there is already too much competition at the prices they want to sell at. Why would I buy a smaller battery M2 when I can buy something else now? I wouldn't be buying one for long distance driving so just charging at home, meaning I don't have to worry about the Super Charger Network.
If I didn't worry about the SC network, I wouldn't touch Tesla to be honest.
Seems like Tesla/Elon have lost their way a little bit here.
ElectricPolice
Member
You make some very valid points to be honest. Our Zoe is charged about every 2 weeks at home for its little journey's so why would I buy an M2? That's saved me a pretty penny, thanks!
As regards lost their way, we are talking about planet America here so you're likely 100% correct again. That's why I felt disassociated with the earning call ramblings and switched off.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against change and I love new tech, but when it blatently doesn't work or isn't ready at what point do you revert or admit you were wrong/apologise/refund?
I do; however, really like my M3 and there is nothing else I would swap it for at any level at present. I mean the BMW X2 at £65k has manual seat adjustment never mind unique programming for every member of the family!! If it worked a little better in the 2-3 areas we all moan about then I'd be a happy chappy.
Absolutely. I do love my M3, yes wipers/Aircon/suspension and small other niggles are annoying, its actually a fantastic car. For something else in its price bracket that does all the jobs I want, there isn't much about. I've been looking recently, and I'm leaning more towards cars with bigger range with a bigger price tag. Its not what I want. Model Y seems like great value when comparing to BMW/Polestar/Merc and the rest.
But no way would I touch PCP again with Tesla. They just aren't stable enough for me to trust. I might be holding our for the Macan, but its a way off and again the price is a lot more.
