If anyone's feeling bored and wants to come fight some trolls, I could use a hand here...
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Most are familiar with rhetorical questions. Few are familiar with rhetorical actions...
Most of Elon's actions are designed to line up vectors, and they could be called rhetorical as they line up the thoughts of the audience. Here is a recent Elon Tweet:
He is very good at doing this. His rhetorical actions are frequently criticized by people who already think they are correctly lined up. But there are a lot of people out there who are off, or counter productive. His actions build consensus. All the "stupid expensive" mistakes he makes in the factory are acceptable as they line up human vectors and you end up ahead in the long run. Following expert advice does not have the same "rhetorical action" effect as public mistakes do.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Ok, I've now read the NYT article, and: wow, just wow!
Some factoids mentioned in this article are weakening the short thesis and are strengthening the bull thesis significantly:
- European carmakers approached to invest in Tesla: "And while several big carmakers approached Tesla about funding a deal, people familiar with the discussions said, there were issues there, too. Some of those companies have their own reputational baggage. And Mr. Musk, proud that Tesla’s cars are made in America, did not want to let foreign interests dictate his decisions about manufacturing."
- Speculation: I think "Volkswagen" and "Daimler" are the main European car companies that have"reputational baggage". (BMW and the smaller ones don't really.)
- Beyond the Saudi PIF, other sovereign funds were interested in Tesla going-private: "As Tesla representatives reached out to officials at the Saudi fund and other sovereign funds, it also became clear that they might want more than just Tesla equity in exchange for an investment. Some, said someone briefed on those talks, would expect Tesla to open manufacturing operations in their countries, for example."
- The NYT author, David Gelles, tries to spin these as negatives but also provides more hard evidence of his bias: for example nowhere does he disclose that the person he used for negative Tesla quotes (Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, a professor at the Yale School of Management) who has close ties to Jim Chanos, one of the biggest short sellers in TSLA. Does the NYT and the SEC even care about such blatant market manipulation?
- The big institutional investors who'd likely not have been able to stay with a private Tesla are "T. Rowe Price, BlackRock and Fidelity.". These institutional investors were likely in a 'hold' or 'sell' trading pattern for the last 2.5 weeks - and could be back on the market on Monday.
Price action on Monday and over the next week is going to be very interesting ...
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that I'm willing to,
sadly, accept $4,000/share in 5 years, and in 20 years, $40,000, and 40 years, $400,000/share (split adjusted)tho the shares will belong to my grandkids, (unless we hit post scarcity phases)
(wish i had bought 1 share of BRK.A for $44,000 long ago, now $313,000/share, or kept my 100 shares of MSFT, vaguely remember buying for roughly vaguely $2,000 in early 1980's (almost 35 yrs ago) and sold for tidy profit soon after
, now it's $31,000/shareI expect TSLA to far surpass. with their coming cloud of LEO (low earth orbit) cheap, readily replacable comsats, Tesla Energy, eventual competition with airlines for rapid transcontinental travel Boring company, and freaking MARS colony, plus other portions of solar system.
If you really are an investor, take a really long term view, otherwise, just a poseur grifter
davecolene0606
Member
To all the retail investors here.
Always remember that when someone is telling you why you want to sell, it cuz they’re buyin. Big guys want as many shares from the open float as possible and will leave crumbs for the retail rabble.
Shorts, media and bots are deployed to maintain the price at a low level long enough to accumulate up to 5% till one has to report a position. MS, GS and their ilk do the same to enable ample supply for their premium customers.
Straight up, lines around the block, back logged orders, NO ADVERTISING! EVERY SINGLE THING THIS COMPANY PRODUCES IS SOLD ALREADY! Most don’t even know what Tesla is yet. Freaking amazing products that are BETTER than anything anywhere AND fufill the mission!
Profits? No it has been wrapped in CAPEX spend to fill demand! Now we are seeing enough cash flow to sustain growth at the highest rate possible without the inefficient use of capital and show positive EPS numbers.
You bet smart money sees a cash machine here and they (as usual) want it for themselves! Elon is standing in the way in terms of sucking $$ out for the short term profit of WS short term money grabbers so the intent is to “put Elon in his place” so a bean counter that does nothing but funnel company cash to the aforementioned individuals can be installed as has been done with virtually every innovative company in the past that built a brand on excellence and true innovation.
Remember Tesla’s corporate mission is to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy first. As a consequence of the true economic advantages of New Energy and electric transportation there is a LOT of money to be made over a LONG period of time.
Don’t give up your position to an entity that doesn’t give a crap about the mission.
Stay long, Spread the truth....
Rant over...
Fire Away
Always remember that when someone is telling you why you want to sell, it cuz they’re buyin. Big guys want as many shares from the open float as possible and will leave crumbs for the retail rabble.
Shorts, media and bots are deployed to maintain the price at a low level long enough to accumulate up to 5% till one has to report a position. MS, GS and their ilk do the same to enable ample supply for their premium customers.
Straight up, lines around the block, back logged orders, NO ADVERTISING! EVERY SINGLE THING THIS COMPANY PRODUCES IS SOLD ALREADY! Most don’t even know what Tesla is yet. Freaking amazing products that are BETTER than anything anywhere AND fufill the mission!
Profits? No it has been wrapped in CAPEX spend to fill demand! Now we are seeing enough cash flow to sustain growth at the highest rate possible without the inefficient use of capital and show positive EPS numbers.
You bet smart money sees a cash machine here and they (as usual) want it for themselves! Elon is standing in the way in terms of sucking $$ out for the short term profit of WS short term money grabbers so the intent is to “put Elon in his place” so a bean counter that does nothing but funnel company cash to the aforementioned individuals can be installed as has been done with virtually every innovative company in the past that built a brand on excellence and true innovation.
Remember Tesla’s corporate mission is to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy first. As a consequence of the true economic advantages of New Energy and electric transportation there is a LOT of money to be made over a LONG period of time.
Don’t give up your position to an entity that doesn’t give a crap about the mission.
Stay long, Spread the truth....
Rant over...
Fire Away
And thus it seems my fair price target today for Tesla remains $420, as that’s been on the table, and it appears it could’ve gone through. Now only if Mr. Market agreed with me.
Not sure I believe in the hold/sell pattern of some of the large institutions, because even if they couldn’t stay private, they would’ve enjoyed a nice premium on their investment once they got bought out.
I do advise everyone who can to keep a sharp eye on Monday to see what transpires with the SP, though. I personally will be waiting again for a large dip, but who knows, maybe it won’t happen.
Yes, in my opinion some % of buyers sat out since the announcement.
Since tweet: Sporadic low volume, Friday lowest in a quarter, (eyeballing chart) and sharp price decrease.
No real bounce back after drop to 300 until news about buyout came out (that Morgan Stanley was advising them).
All while total short interest decreased. That alone should have been enough upward pressure, given low volume on some days, to help us, but too many buyers were mia.
Now those buyers are free, and I believe the market will reward Tesla for remaining public, and if the short interest continues to drop there’s only one direction we’re headed. Hell, even if you hate Tesla it is a money making machine due to both sides of its potential.
A while back, when SP was around ATH, EM said that SP was too high.
By setting 420$ as base in privatization deal - I think he now thinks that based on all the progress that has happened in TSLA since then, that TSLA deserves a 400+ SP.
Now that privatization is over, everything is available only in open market. Next few days might get nasty/tricky ... but as Sept kicks in and Q3 begins winding down.. I think SP will keep going up , test at least ATH before end of Sept. ~ cheers!!
(We need 2 Q of profits and then back to markets for an equity raise to spring up MY, Semi(or pickup) and at least one GF)
By setting 420$ as base in privatization deal - I think he now thinks that based on all the progress that has happened in TSLA since then, that TSLA deserves a 400+ SP.
Now that privatization is over, everything is available only in open market. Next few days might get nasty/tricky ... but as Sept kicks in and Q3 begins winding down.. I think SP will keep going up , test at least ATH before end of Sept. ~ cheers!!
(We need 2 Q of profits and then back to markets for an equity raise to spring up MY, Semi(or pickup) and at least one GF)
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
If they were informed about (or part of) the negotiations leading up to the offer on Friday then maybe they couldn't trade due to being in possession of material non-public information (which would be insider trading).
Also, uncertainty was pretty high, which I think would have prevented buying/accumulation by all but the most aggressive institutional investors.
It's back to the (improving) fundamentals now, colored with the fact that in just two weeks a number of big investors lined up willing to buy 57 million TSLA shares at $420. (This 57 million shares figure comes from the 24 billion dollars buyout cost estimate in the NYT article.)
I am available for adoption, but I barely made it through middle school. A used 2013 Leaf from Arizona would suit me just fine...
RT
remember one of the next first steps in the mission, a roughly 500 year plan (Tesla is merely the umbrella orgainzationTo all the retail investors here.
Always remember that when someone is telling you why you want to sell, it cuz they’re buyin. Big guys want as many shares from the open float as possible and will leave crumbs for the retail rabble.
Shorts, media and bots are deployed to maintain the price at a low level long enough to accumulate up to 5% till one has to report a position. MS, GS and their ilk do the same to enable ample supply for their premium customers.
Straight up, lines around the block, back logged orders, NO ADVERTISING! EVERY SINGLE THING THIS COMPANY PRODUCES IS SOLD ALREADY! Most don’t even know what Tesla is yet. Freaking amazing products that are BETTER than anything anywhere AND fufill the mission!
Profits? No it has been wrapped in CAPEX spend to fill demand! Now we are seeing enough cash flow to sustain growth at the highest rate possible without the inefficient use of capital and show positive EPS numbers.
You bet smart money sees a cash machine here and they (as usual) want it for themselves! Elon is standing in the way in terms of sucking $$ out for the short term profit of WS short term money grabbers so the intent is to “put Elon in his place” so a bean counter that does nothing but funnel company cash to the aforementioned individuals can be installed as has been done with virtually every innovative company in the past that built a brand on excellence and true innovation.
Remember Tesla’s corporate mission is to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy first. As a consequence of the true economic advantages of New Energy and electric transportation there is a LOT of money to be made over a LONG period of time.
Don’t give up your position to an entity that doesn’t give a crap about the mission.
Stay long, Spread the truth....
Rant over...
Fire Away
Krugerrand
Meow
I think it’s a good thing the guarantee was an opinion.
But seriously, he had everything he needed (and still does) to do what he wanted but I respect he listened to those who wouldn’t have been able to go private with Tesla and those who didn’t want him to. Elon always thinks of trying to please as many as possible and doing his best. I can’t fault him for that regardless of what I think. I will concede as I always do that he knows best for his company. It’s a shame he’s had to sacrifice himself in the process.
I am now preparing myself for a new onslaught of attacks against his person and company. More claims he’s a liar and fraud and con man and Tesla is a scam and funding wasn’t secured and he has no credibility and Tesla bankrupt any day now and SEC sending him to jail. On and on and on this is going to go for years to come. A crap ton of us are going to have watch out retirement and savings accounts continue to yoyo like crazy because of a group of nasty, vile, evil, horrible human beings trying to destroy this man, his hard work and his company (which now employs 10’s of thousands of people around the world and growing) and the mission to save us all.
Yeah. That’s what most here get to look forward to. As if the last 7 years weren’t enough, we get to rinse and repeat for many more to come. Oh, joy! I don’t envy Elon Musk one teeny, tiny bit. He’s a better and stronger human than most on this God forsaken planet.
I am about to become less than zero tolerant for the Elon and Tesla critical among us. Bunch of selfish, ugly inside people.
davecolene0606
Member
remember one of the next first steps in the mission, a roughly 500 year plan (Tesla is merely the umbrella orgainzation
View attachment 329130
Umm yuuupp,
Shoulda put the ole * disclaimer “List of stuff not meant to be comprehensive”
Fire Away!
I think it’s a good thing the guarantee was an opinion.
But seriously, he had everything he needed (and still does) to do what he wanted but I respect he listened to those who wouldn’t have been able to go private with Tesla and those who didn’t want him to. Elon always thinks of trying to please as many as possible and doing his best. I can’t fault him for that regardless of what I think. I will concede as I always do that he knows best for his company. It’s a shame he’s had to sacrifice himself in the process.
I am now preparing myself for a new onslaught of attacks against his person and company. More claims he’s a liar and fraud and con man and Tesla is a scam and funding wasn’t secured and he has no credibility and Tesla bankrupt any day now and SEC sending him to jail. On and on and on this is going to go for years to come. A crap ton of us are going to have watch out retirement and savings accounts continue to yoyo like crazy because of a group of nasty, vile, evil, horrible human beings trying to destroy this man, his hard work and his company (which now employs 10’s of thousands of people around the world and growing) and the mission to save us all.
Yeah. That’s what most here get to look forward to. As if the last 7 years weren’t enough, we get to rinse and repeat for many more to come. Oh, joy! I don’t envy Elon Musk one teeny, tiny bit. He’s a better and stronger human than most on this God forsaken planet.
I am about to become less than zero tolerant for the Elon and Tesla critical among us. Bunch of selfish, ugly inside people.
Prepare to be angyer if the shorts come out on top....
Thank you for your answer.I think it’s a good thing the guarantee was an opinion.
But seriously, he had everything he needed (and still does) to do what he wanted but I respect he listened to those who wouldn’t have been able to go private with Tesla and those who didn’t want him to. Elon always thinks of trying to please as many as possible and doing his best. I can’t fault him for that regardless of what I think. I will concede as I always do that he knows best for his company. It’s a shame he’s had to sacrifice himself in the process.
I am now preparing myself for a new onslaught of attacks against his person and company. More claims he’s a liar and fraud and con man and Tesla is a scam and funding wasn’t secured and he has no credibility and Tesla bankrupt any day now and SEC sending him to jail. On and on and on this is going to go for years to come. A crap ton of us are going to have watch out retirement and savings accounts continue to yoyo like crazy because of a group of nasty, vile, evil, horrible human beings trying to destroy this man, his hard work and his company (which now employs 10’s of thousands of people around the world and growing) and the mission to save us all.
Yeah. That’s what most here get to look forward to. As if the last 7 years weren’t enough, we get to rinse and repeat for many more to come. Oh, joy! I don’t envy Elon Musk one teeny, tiny bit. He’s a better and stronger human than most on this God forsaken planet.
I am about to become less than zero tolerant for the Elon and Tesla critical among us. Bunch of selfish, ugly inside people.
Krugerrand
Meow
Fortunately I have set all my friends and family straight - or they can’t be my friends or family. For pretty much realz.
I was texting with a friend yesterday as they were in the middle of selling some neighbors and friends a Tesla. They stated their current news reporting (Oklahoma) made it seem like Elon was unstable but they weren’t buying it. By the end of the day I got word this couple was heading to Austin (no OK Tesla store or SC) to test drive all 3 Teslas, but were pretty sure they’d settled on an S. So yeah, gave them my ref # so they can get free supercharging.
One car at a time.
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Krugerrand
Meow
Big investors but with strings attached if that NYT article is to be believed. So I’m not holding my breath they are buying now. They could have grabbed their 4.9% at $30, at $108.43, at $267.01...but they didn’t.
davecolene0606
Member
True they can turn it back on, but Tesla knows immediately and can disable until the next time they turn it back on.
Fire Away!
Krugerrand
Meow
You’ve already lost.
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