It's the public that was never an employee that has the issue...of course they would let them keep their shares if they started out in the fund as employees
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Discussion is great, but a lot of this feels like speculation and guesswork rather than meaningful discussion.
According to the wiki, SpaceX has about 7000 employees as of November 2017, and if more than 29% of them own spaceX stock, and I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case, then SpaceX will have more than 2000 small time investors, so that number is effectively meaningless.
I would think Elon already knew this ahead of the announcement.
That reads a lot like speculation and guesswork. I'd rather have legitimate questions answered.
Remus, you are getting a little off into the weeds. Any company, private or public, can set up an employee 401K plan. When you leave you are not forced to sell off your holdings. Most people just roll their account into an SDIRA or Rollover IRA.
But Tesla is another whole animal. From my reading only accredited investors could buy into the private Tesla. Someone like Fidelity could set up a mutual fund and that fund could take a stake in the private Tesla. But the fund would not be large enough invested in just Tesla, so it might have to buy shares of other automakers to make sense for Fidelity.
The biggest issue is would the IRS allow shares to be transferred tax-free? That could be a huge issue. As some other funds have already said they could not invest in a private Tesla and would be forced to sell. If they were early investors they could be facing a huge tax bite. Those that could not move their funds to a private Tesla may vote "no" to going private since they would be unable to participate in future growth and earnings just as Tesla is expected to start turning a profit.
Causalien
Prime 8 ball Oracle
Assuming you are the breadwinner and the spouse makes significantly less. The investment are usually with the spouse. As you get flexibility to withdraw at minimal tax.
That said, ya, I assumed most ppl have more in non registered than registered. But if you have 10 years salaries in rrsp, it's probably time to scale it back.
You will be taking a higher tax hit in the future when you are retired and ready to withdraw if rrsp grows so big that its annual payout becomes larger than your highest income at some point.
Can't initiate the accelerated conversions except in accordance with:
.... if we are a party to a consolidation, merger, combination, statutory or binding share exchange or similar transaction involving us pursuant to which our common stock would be converted into, or exchanged for, cash, securities or other property or assets, or any sale, conveyance, lease or other transfer or similar transaction in one transaction or a series of transactions of all or substantially all of the consolidated assets of ours and our subsidiaries, taken as a whole, the notes may be surrendered by a holder for conversion at any time from or after the date that is 30 scheduled trading days prior to the anticipated effective date of the transaction (or, if later, the business day after we give notice of such transaction) until the close of business on the 35th trading day after the actual effective date of such transaction or, if such transaction also constitutes a fundamental change, until the close of business on the business day immediately preceding the relevant fundamental change purchase date...
A “fundamental change” will be deemed to have occurred at the time after the notes are originally issued if any of the following occurs:
A “fundamental change” will be deemed to have occurred at the time after the notes are originally issued if any of the following occurs:
(1) a “person” or “group” within the meaning of Section 13(d) of the Exchange Act, other than us, our wholly owned subsidiaries or our or their employee benefit plans, files a Schedule TO or any schedule, form or report under the Exchange Act disclosing that such person or group has become the direct or indirect “beneficial owner”, as defined in Rule 13d-3 under the Exchange Act, of our common equity representing more than 50% of the voting power of our common equity; S-45 Table of Contents
(2) the consummation of (A) any recapitalization, reclassification or change of our common stock (other than changes resulting from a subdivision or combination) as a result of which our common stock would be converted into, or exchanged for, cash, securities or other property or assets; (B) any consolidation, merger, combination, statutory or binding share exchange or similar transaction involving us pursuant to which our common stock will be converted into cash, securities or other property or assets; or (C) any sale, conveyance, lease or other transfer or similar transaction in one transaction or a series of related transactions of all or substantially all of the consolidated assets of ours and our subsidiaries, taken as a whole, to any person other than one or more of our subsidiaries; provided, however, that a transaction described in clause (A) or (B) in which the holders of all classes of our common equity immediately prior to such transaction own, directly or indirectly, more than 50% of all classes of common equity of the continuing or surviving corporation or transferee or the parent thereof immediately after such transaction in substantially the same proportions as such ownership immediately prior to such transaction shall not be a fundamental change pursuant to this clause (2);
(3) our stockholders approve any plan or proposal for the liquidation or dissolution of us; or
(4) our common stock (or other common stock underlying the notes) ceases to be listed or quoted on any of the NASDAQ Global Select Market, NASDAQ Global Market or New York Stock Exchange (or any of their respective successors).
(2) the consummation of (A) any recapitalization, reclassification or change of our common stock (other than changes resulting from a subdivision or combination) as a result of which our common stock would be converted into, or exchanged for, cash, securities or other property or assets; (B) any consolidation, merger, combination, statutory or binding share exchange or similar transaction involving us pursuant to which our common stock will be converted into cash, securities or other property or assets; or (C) any sale, conveyance, lease or other transfer or similar transaction in one transaction or a series of related transactions of all or substantially all of the consolidated assets of ours and our subsidiaries, taken as a whole, to any person other than one or more of our subsidiaries; provided, however, that a transaction described in clause (A) or (B) in which the holders of all classes of our common equity immediately prior to such transaction own, directly or indirectly, more than 50% of all classes of common equity of the continuing or surviving corporation or transferee or the parent thereof immediately after such transaction in substantially the same proportions as such ownership immediately prior to such transaction shall not be a fundamental change pursuant to this clause (2);
(3) our stockholders approve any plan or proposal for the liquidation or dissolution of us; or
(4) our common stock (or other common stock underlying the notes) ceases to be listed or quoted on any of the NASDAQ Global Select Market, NASDAQ Global Market or New York Stock Exchange (or any of their respective successors).
You should read it again.
I did not say, "SpaceX has more than 2000 small time investors", I said "if more than 29% of them own SpaceX stock ... SpaceX will have more than 2000 small time investors."
It's troubling that people aren't using conditional statements, rather opting to say things like, "Tesla can't do this", "musk can't do that", as if it's definitive.
The difference between a former Uber employee and a member of the public is the former had acquired Uber shares. Other than that, legally there is no difference.
They could form an SPV that was open to non-accredited individual investors. I can't believe the Bloomberg guy, with all his knowledge, wasn't aware of this. There's so much FUD going on. It's going to last a while. Going private could take 6-9 months.
I was using the case example you provided - "you" were the guy offering to buy Tesla at $415 per share.
My point is, if it's a non-serious offer, of course it need not be reported. But Elon's plan is deadly serious - funding has been secured, and it is "certain" to proceed, contingent only upon a shareholder vote. Of course the Board is duty bound to file a report on such an offer.
Above you said $415, now you're changing the example to $315 - of course that too, is a materially different offer. A pointless offer would not require reporting, but a serious one would.
No, I never said that an external party securing undisclosed funding would require reporting by Tesla - again, I was using your own example, in which 'you' DID present your offer.
Not sure what you're trying to illuminate with all these variations and subtleties. For me it's pretty simple - a serious offer should be disclosed promptly. Elon has prepared a serious proposal, secured funding, communicated to employees, stockholders, and the Board. Proper disclosure is a no brainer.
Not following... within 1m change in short interest.
Or you're implying that shorts sell/cover on the daily basis?
I should clarify: what I mean with that is that the articles are often worded to strongly imply that the SEC is seriously investigating Musk/Tesla for lying. If you read closer, buried in the middle of the text(or by following through to the source article), there’s a line that states that for now it’s all just informal inquiries.
Many of the articles popping up right now are worded in a way to be as misleading as possible without actually stating an overt falsehood.
If you really want to buy into SpaceX just buy shares in Alphabet. They own 7.5% of Space X. So you still get a piece while owning a very profitable stock.
I have lost count on how many times you r posts was refuted with evidences. This is the last time I waste my time on you.
I concur with your last sentence here, but your earlier post sure seemed speculative and guessing about the number of SpaceX employees that have stock. I don't wish to argue however because we're no doubt on the same side wanting some answers. Patience is a virtue of which I don't have enough i'm afraid.
At least it's not Friday yet!
Sorry, I was overly tense.
I was referencing "Should we be seeing less shares available for trading as this drags on?"
I was alluding to the concept that all the currently traded shares could be short position generated, and that much of the trading could be shorts open and closing positions (yielding little net change, but much volume).
That's not wonderful advice, considering how the last 10 years, alphabet went up about 3-6 times, depending on what part of 2008 you select, while SpaceX went up about 42 times over.
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Trying to understand the 8K rule - which requires a filing w SEC within 4 days of a ‘significant event’ that may affect SP.
So obviously Elon confirmed funding etc before he announced it. So is the significant event securing funding or the announcement itself? Is he obligated to announce it ASAP after securing. I’m just wondering if he may have to file tomorrow if the ‘deal/offer’ was done the day before he announced.
If the board knew of the offer a week ago, wouldn’t Tesla be required to file within 4 days of the board knowing about the offer?
So obviously Elon confirmed funding etc before he announced it. So is the significant event securing funding or the announcement itself? Is he obligated to announce it ASAP after securing. I’m just wondering if he may have to file tomorrow if the ‘deal/offer’ was done the day before he announced.
If the board knew of the offer a week ago, wouldn’t Tesla be required to file within 4 days of the board knowing about the offer?
At this time, unless you want to own a very small fraction of SpaceX (say through one of Fidelity's mutual funds) it is the only way regular investors can get a taste of SpaceX. SpaceX is no different from other big companies launched with the help of angel investors. The original backers of Facebook, Apple, etc.all made huge sums for their VC firms. LIttle guys like us do not get to play in their sandboxes.
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