larmor
Active Member
See above, the market pundits are losing their favorite toy and will have to actual look at company balance sheets and projections instead of using articles create their product...
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Disclaimer first, NOT A MEDICAL ADVICE!
I want to do a little bit of explaining on Elon's health condition and drug use.
We all know Elon is under unbelievable stress right now. Elon's taking Ambien to help with sleep, and currently there is widespread criticism in this choice. I want to explain that this is actually quite a rational choice on Elon's part.
To start, extreme stress can lead to insomnia, and is likely the reason why Elon needs sleeping pills. The non medical term heavy explanation of why extreme stress causes insomnia is because high amounts of stress causes the same kind of input to the nervous system as danger, and it puts our nervous system in a "fight or flight" mode, a heightened alertness and energy state to deal with the "danger" . Extreme stress can put the nervous system in a prolonged "fight or flight" state, which greatly suppresses the body's signal to enter sleep since you don't want to be sleepy when fighting or fleeing from a predator.
Now enter Ambien, which is Zolpidem, a class of "Z-drugs" that is supposed to help with sleep. It works by essentially making you lose consciousness. It doesn't actually enhance the body's ability to get higher quality sleep because it does nothing to aid in the body's process to generate sleep because all it does is knock you out. You can be knocked out, but not sleeping. This is why most of the time, sleeping pills are BAD because they do not help you get better quality sleep, and most come with nasty side effects.
However, Ambien does actually work for Elon in this case and legitimately help him sleep better. The reason is because of the source of his insomnia. His insomnia is caused by his extreme stress putting him in a prolonged fight or flight state that suppresses his body's attempts at generating sleep. Ambien is suppressing that fight or flight state, which in turn allows his body's attempts at generating sleep to be unimpeded.
I hope this brings some clarity to the reasoning behind the use of Ambien. I'm sure Elon has an extremely competent doctor that's making the best decisions for his health. His use of Ambien is not "irrational" that people would like to believe.
I want to do a little bit of explaining on Elon's health condition and drug use.
We all know Elon is under unbelievable stress right now. Elon's taking Ambien to help with sleep, and currently there is widespread criticism in this choice. I want to explain that this is actually quite a rational choice on Elon's part.
To start, extreme stress can lead to insomnia, and is likely the reason why Elon needs sleeping pills. The non medical term heavy explanation of why extreme stress causes insomnia is because high amounts of stress causes the same kind of input to the nervous system as danger, and it puts our nervous system in a "fight or flight" mode, a heightened alertness and energy state to deal with the "danger" . Extreme stress can put the nervous system in a prolonged "fight or flight" state, which greatly suppresses the body's signal to enter sleep since you don't want to be sleepy when fighting or fleeing from a predator.
Now enter Ambien, which is Zolpidem, a class of "Z-drugs" that is supposed to help with sleep. It works by essentially making you lose consciousness. It doesn't actually enhance the body's ability to get higher quality sleep because it does nothing to aid in the body's process to generate sleep because all it does is knock you out. You can be knocked out, but not sleeping. This is why most of the time, sleeping pills are BAD because they do not help you get better quality sleep, and most come with nasty side effects.
However, Ambien does actually work for Elon in this case and legitimately help him sleep better. The reason is because of the source of his insomnia. His insomnia is caused by his extreme stress putting him in a prolonged fight or flight state that suppresses his body's attempts at generating sleep. Ambien is suppressing that fight or flight state, which in turn allows his body's attempts at generating sleep to be unimpeded.
I hope this brings some clarity to the reasoning behind the use of Ambien. I'm sure Elon has an extremely competent doctor that's making the best decisions for his health. His use of Ambien is not "irrational" that people would like to believe.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
If going private reduces the attacks on Tesla from short sellers I'd think they would care. If Tesla is seen as the enemy they would want as many attack vectors as possible.
Meh, my frustration with the climb was that I couldn't capitalize on it, because it wasn't clear that - if I sold - I'd get a chance to buy back. My view is: you can always count on volatility in TSLA, up until it goes private. When people keep talking about "implosions", it's buy, buy, buy. When that short narrative falls apart and the company looks like it's taking off, it's sell, sell, sell, because I guarantee you, the shorts will be back with a new narrative on why it's not *really* going to take off.
The latter is IMHO harder than the former. It's too easy to fall for the notion, "Haha, there's no way the shorts could convince people of negative spin on this!" Yes, they can. They always can. I don't expect it to decrease even after the Q3 results. Maybe after Q4.
I found that Ambien did not work for me and I was dealing with PTSD/super high stress as my primary cause of sleep deprivation.
Hope it works for him, but Ambien is not reliable for this particular scenario. Just so you know.
Totally, but I was commenting more on the Vanguard, Fidelity, TRowe often pension management funds that are less peripatetic in their actions.
Certainly a specific fund that IS trying to market time (there are vol, momentum, hedge funds that all fit in this group and TSLA has been a very good target for them) are going to move in and out often up to the point that it doesn't negatively impact tax impact.
Long time lurker, first time (and maybe last time) Internet poster, and a soon-ish to be M3 owner.
I've been investing in TSLA on and off since the early years when SP was still in the low double digits. I held long but always exited my position when it netted a modest return. I've only recently returned to TSLA during the big dip in March/April, and that's around the time I discovered this forum and have been lurking here since. The wealth of knowledge and insight shared by the posters here are simply amazing and much appreciated by the lurkers/amateur investors like me.
What I'm about to propose might be better served in another thread, but this is where I hangout most and would like to gauge support for this idea.
Through all my years of investing, I've never felt this personally and emotionally invested in a company like Tesla and its CEO. Elon's vision and mission (plus his heart and smarts) resonate with me, and like others here, I’m 100% supportive of TSLAP (even if it means I can no longer be part of the Tesla story because I can't or don't qualify to hold private shares) and I'm willing to stick with TSLA to the bitter end.
In addition to silently supporting TSLA by holding/buying shares and owning their products, I would also like to be a bit more vocal in my support of Elon by writing a personal letter expressing my appreciation and confidence in all that he's trying to do (and have already done). I'm also planning to express the same sentiments to the Delivery Specialist when it comes time for me to take delivery of my M3. My hope is that if enough supporters do this, we can create a “Miracle on the 34th Street” moment and show Elon he has a lot more people standing with him than against him. Although the effect may not be as immediate, I think seeing bags upon bags of personal letters of support has a much bigger and more palpable impact than receiving a million “likes” or “tweets”.
Oh, and not sure if this is how it works, but to qualify this post for Market Actions, I'm planning to buy a few more shares at ~300 as soon as funding becomes available.
Cheers.
I've been investing in TSLA on and off since the early years when SP was still in the low double digits. I held long but always exited my position when it netted a modest return. I've only recently returned to TSLA during the big dip in March/April, and that's around the time I discovered this forum and have been lurking here since. The wealth of knowledge and insight shared by the posters here are simply amazing and much appreciated by the lurkers/amateur investors like me.
What I'm about to propose might be better served in another thread, but this is where I hangout most and would like to gauge support for this idea.
Through all my years of investing, I've never felt this personally and emotionally invested in a company like Tesla and its CEO. Elon's vision and mission (plus his heart and smarts) resonate with me, and like others here, I’m 100% supportive of TSLAP (even if it means I can no longer be part of the Tesla story because I can't or don't qualify to hold private shares) and I'm willing to stick with TSLA to the bitter end.
In addition to silently supporting TSLA by holding/buying shares and owning their products, I would also like to be a bit more vocal in my support of Elon by writing a personal letter expressing my appreciation and confidence in all that he's trying to do (and have already done). I'm also planning to express the same sentiments to the Delivery Specialist when it comes time for me to take delivery of my M3. My hope is that if enough supporters do this, we can create a “Miracle on the 34th Street” moment and show Elon he has a lot more people standing with him than against him. Although the effect may not be as immediate, I think seeing bags upon bags of personal letters of support has a much bigger and more palpable impact than receiving a million “likes” or “tweets”.
Oh, and not sure if this is how it works, but to qualify this post for Market Actions, I'm planning to buy a few more shares at ~300 as soon as funding becomes available.
Cheers.
bdy0627
Active Member
We need to pin this post so we can refer back to it in a few weeks. I'll try to remember to pull it up at that point. For the record, I think buying this morning will turn out....well.
The Blue Owl
Endangerous Herbivore
That extreme stress leads to insomnia doesn't necessarily mean he needs sleeping pills, but ok.
So far, so good. This is pretty much what Matthew Walker, PhD (an actual sleep expert) explains in his recent book (highly recommended, btw).
I highly doubt that. Ambien does what Ambien does, and whatever that is, it doesn't produce quality sleep (as you said, and as sleep experts confirm). The pill is not going to suddenly work better because it agrees that Elon's reasons for insomnia are valid.
Irrational may not be the best characterization, but the evidence seems to pretty clearly indicate that regular use of sleep medication, Ambien in particular, is a really bad idea.
From the link in the previous sentence (emphasis mine):
Q: There’s a lengthy section toward the end of the book that discusses your concerns about sleeping pills. What’s most worrisome about them to you?
A: The quality of sleep that you have when you’re on these drugs is not the same as normal, naturalistic sleep. They’re classified as “sedative hypnotics,” so the drugs actually just sedate you — and sedation is not sleep.
[...]
Q: So you don’t think most people even know about the true downsides of sleeping pills?
A: No, I don’t think they do. And I’m not even necessarily aware that their doctors prescribing those sleeping pills to them are aware of that. There’s been a breakdown in a communication of the science. It does seem quite clear to me that the public is not aware of those facts, because when I present that evidence at public talks or speak about it, I usually just get these stunned, shocked faces. Then they spend the hour of Q&A that comes after all of these talks asking about these facts, because people are desperate for sleep and they’re really quite shocked by the evidence, and they want to seek further advice and help.
A: The quality of sleep that you have when you’re on these drugs is not the same as normal, naturalistic sleep. They’re classified as “sedative hypnotics,” so the drugs actually just sedate you — and sedation is not sleep.
[...]
Q: So you don’t think most people even know about the true downsides of sleeping pills?
A: No, I don’t think they do. And I’m not even necessarily aware that their doctors prescribing those sleeping pills to them are aware of that. There’s been a breakdown in a communication of the science. It does seem quite clear to me that the public is not aware of those facts, because when I present that evidence at public talks or speak about it, I usually just get these stunned, shocked faces. Then they spend the hour of Q&A that comes after all of these talks asking about these facts, because people are desperate for sleep and they’re really quite shocked by the evidence, and they want to seek further advice and help.
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The fact that you say this, and trust me MANY MANY other people feel exactly the same way, is exactly why this company simply will not fail. There may be ups and downs and uncertainty and the corporate structure may change - several times over, but visionary leaders don't come along as often as we think. Visionary leaders get people to do the things they don't think THEY can do. They get people to invest, to stretch, to challenge the status quo daily. They get people to try again when they fail and they help them get up when they fall. In short, they get people to BELIEVE in what the future actually CAN BE!.. This is the epitome of Elon Musk. (If we are being honest, I will say that the first time that one of the SpaceX booster rockets STUCK THE LANDING on those floating platforms - i cried. I really did cry. It was from a science, technology and physics standpoint one of the greatest things I have ever seen. Sure, the MATH is there, but in general out in the world we really just don't STICK THE LANDING all that often).
There have been other leaders like this in the past, of course Jobs is first to come to mind. I followed him too and invested back in 1997. ;-). There have been military leaders, Presidents (if you can believe that), business leaders, TEACHERS, and others who have the same qualities of inspiring, challenging and getting people to believe. They all have different qualities and characters in how they express their gift, but one thing is certain...
They are on a road and they are going to GET TO THEIR DESTINATION. The smartest thing one can do is to get in behind them and following along and learn along the way.
just my. .02$.
The proper solution to sleep deprivation is very dependent on the cause. Therefore people often report varying success from certain drug usage. Most people think popping a pill will solve the problem, but the true proper solution usually requires much more work on the user's part. It's unfortunate, because doctors know this, but patients come in wanting the easy solution from a pill. They don't want to hear from the doctor that they need to take a break from their jobs (reduce stress), spend thousands on a very high quality mattress (improve sleep quality), and exercise (proper stimulation and energy improvement). If the doctor tried, most patients would not bother, and likely think poorly of the doctor. Therefore doctors throw their hands and just give the easy solution that the patients are looking for: pills
With regards to Ambien, I'm not surprised it didn't help you. PTSD is caused by a condition that greatly disrupts REM sleep generation. An important part of REM sleep is to take your experiences, and remove the emotional stimulus from those memories. This is why normal people can relive old sad/happy/angry memories without feeling the emotions they felt at that time. A person deprived of REM sleep does not get this "emotional removal", and therefore experiences the full emotions they felt at that time. Ambien does nothing to improve REM sleep. In fact, no sleeping medication I'm aware of is capable of improving REM sleep under a clinical study. This is why PTSD is such a nasty and difficult problem.
If you have the funds, a very high quality mattress is a much better treatment for sleep problems than sleeping pills (which really should only be used as a last resort). Most mattresses over 10 years old should be thrown out because their ability to support your body (and especially your spine) has greatly reduced over the timespan, which causes very slow and gradual decline in the quality of your sleep. Think of the decline in sleep quality like investment returns. The day to day decline is small, but it builds up overtime exponentially. I have a custom made mattress made entirely out of latex to provide the best possible support. I consider it my best investment.
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TSLA Medical Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable
How to Use a 401(k) to Buy Private Stocks ~ Cheers
Personally hoping TSLA doesn't go private .. If I think it is gonna be worth 600+ in < 18 mths, why would I want to be bought out at 420?
But most of my investing is from IRA and that is my main focus for now ..
Would like to hear if anyone considering ..
Consider converting your 401(k) account into an IRA. Most IRAs allow for privately-held stocks to be included in the portfolio. Converting a 401(k) to an IRA is often called a "rollover." ?
Personally hoping TSLA doesn't go private .. If I think it is gonna be worth 600+ in < 18 mths, why would I want to be bought out at 420?
But most of my investing is from IRA and that is my main focus for now ..
Would like to hear if anyone considering ..
Consider converting your 401(k) account into an IRA. Most IRAs allow for privately-held stocks to be included in the portfolio. Converting a 401(k) to an IRA is often called a "rollover." ?
I'm not suggesting that the long term solution for Elon's sleep problems is taking Ambien. Certainly not. I certainly agree that it should not be taken long term.
I should have made my original post more clear. Ambien may be the temporary solution for Elon. He certainly does not have the time to properly address his sleep problems during the M3 ramp. I suspect what his doctor is doing is providing solutions that'll get him through this period, and once privatization is done, then properly address the problem. Elon is not stupid, he knows he has to rest, but he can't do that if Tesla is in the public eye. His long term health is just one of the reasons why he is taking Tesla private.
Your quote on many doctors not being aware of the real effects of sleeping pills is likely true. However, I think any doctor that is treating a billionaire should be in the top tier league in their medical knowledge and experience, and should not have such gap in knowledge. Their main bottleneck isn't knowledge or experience, but the probability of compliance from their VIP patients to their treatment strategy. Their optimal treatment is not the optimal in quality in treatment, but the optimal expected value of the effectiveness of the treatment and the probability of their VIP patients going through with it. Temporary Ambien usage falls under "I know this isn't optimal, but it's probably the most helpful thing given your current work situation"
And here is my contribution to the Tesla Investor medical board (thank you @MarcusMaximus
). Xanax is one of the most addictive benzodiazepines.... I cannot see any other use but for panic attacks. Today was a good buy opportunity - slowly loading up. Wish I had more cash.
bdy0627
Active Member
Holy sh*t! So the lead author of the NYT article is gloating on Twitter about the stock tanking because of his article about Elon?! Is this the friggin National Enquirer?
I am self-employed and hold most of my TSLA in a retirement account. My 401(k) is organized under a self-directed retirement fund umbrella. This thread may be helpful: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/self-directed-ira-discussion.
It's worse at other companies! I have heard that a lot of people at BMW are addicted to the psychoactive stimulant drug caffeine. Active trafficking of the drug is still rampant even after the issue was brought to the attention of the company. The use of the drug is so widespread the drug is sometimes pushed to workers at lunch at the factory, so the poor addicts will work harder and longer shifts. Abuse of this drug is out of control! If you are considering buying a BMW please take a deep look in the mirror and ask yourself if you morally can support this horrible drug abuse!
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