The supercharger overbilled me because it had an incorrect time! Tesla declined my complaint!

[arcos]

Likely it pre-authorized for a certain amount (say, $100?) immediately upon plugging in, then captures the actual amount after charging is complete (unplugging).

Really, it's hard for me to understand how this could happen. The superchargers have to have an internet connection to charge cards, and they're likely running a unix variant, and they likely have a scheduled job for synchronizing to an internet time server... probably a daily job.

How much drift can really happen in one day? It's usually not in the minutes... it's usually just a handful of seconds.

Perhaps there's some infrastructure failure that they haven't caught yet (e.g. they host their own time server and somehow those chargers failed to connect to it).

If they made a mistake in the NTP synchronization (firewall, incorrect IP, etc.) they never get a time update and they are just drifting. Any reboot or NTP synchronization tries on locked ports, all of which can cause a drifting. I saw this multiple times even on Windows servers.
But because there is no display, nobody can check it and their IT is not interested in monitoring it. Or they even don't know what is time drifting on the machine.
It looks like their best programers are involved in the car software only.

 

[arcos]

See if you can get a TV station to take uo the story and do some of their own testing.

They are not interested in checking it. They can take logs from my car as well.

 

[arcos]

I dont understand this statement at all.

The reason I say that (and this is not ment to be a TMC moderator statement, I am posting as a regular user atm), is because you decided to spend enough time on this to create an account at a website you had never created one before (your account creation date is today), and have posted about it in this thread 8 times.

Saying " I dont want to spend any more time on it" after doing the above, when you could have filed a credit card dispute with less effort than it took to create an account here and post about it, is what I dont understand. You obviously care about it (if you didnt, you wouldnt have created an account, created a thread, etc). So, why is filing a credit card dispute a bunch of extra time?

After creating a dispute the bank is responsible for investigating who is right.
They are Tesla and they have an invoice, I'm a car owner and have no hard proof (maybe except my Google Maps history).
Guess who is more trustful for the bank.

In my opinion, the impact is bigger if more people hear stories like this, than the $19 dispute.

I posted it to share my disappointment and check if there is anybody else who had a similar experience. And it looks like I'm not alone.

 

[ItsErik]

Do you have Teslafi or anything that can show your drive history and when the charge was recorded as starting car side?

 

[MP3Mike]

I just did this. Thanks for this idea.

Hopefully more people will do this and it gets to the correct group.

 

[E90alex]

In my opinion, the impact is bigger if more people hear stories like this, than the $19 dispute.

It won’t matter if 10 or 10,000 people are impacted if all those people just go ehh it was $10 no big deal and don’t pursue it any further.

 

[arcos]

Do you have Teslafi or anything that can show your drive history and when the charge was recorded as starting car side?

Unfortunately, not. I'm a new Tesla owner.

 

[DP26]

After creating a dispute the bank is responsible for investigating who is right.
They are Tesla and they have an invoice, I'm a car owner and have no hard proof (maybe except my Google Maps history).
Guess who is more trustful for the bank.

You have zero idea how a charge back works. As a merchant, I am greatful!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Likely it pre-authorized for a certain amount (say, $100?) immediately upon plugging in, then captures the actual amount after charging is complete (unplugging).

Really, it's hard for me to understand how this could happen. The superchargers have to have an internet connection to charge cards, and they're likely running a unix variant, and they likely have a scheduled job for synchronizing to an internet time server... probably a daily job.

How much drift can really happen in one day? It's usually not in the minutes... it's usually just a handful of seconds.

Perhaps there's some infrastructure failure that they haven't caught yet (e.g. they host their own time server and somehow those chargers failed to connect to it).

If it pre-authorizes immediately then the credit card company would have the timestamp at which the session started.

 

[father_of_6]

But because there is no display, nobody can check it and their IT is not interested in monitoring it.

This is definitely not the case. Tesla has very good monitoring and a team of people to manage and repair, which is why they have the world's most reliable charging network.

As for the dispute, it's definitely much less effort than you've expended as a user on these forums. I can login to my bank and just click a charge and dispute it, adding a small note. The charge is then immediately removed from my card and becomes someone else's job to investigate. The credit card company sides with the customer and puts the burden of proof on the merchant.

You should definitely file a dispute. It would be the most effective way of helping others, since it would force Tesla to investigate and resolve the dispute with their merchant processor. If there is indeed a technical anomaly that caused this, it would certainly be the best way to bring it to someone's attention at Tesla.

 

[father_of_6]

Maybe they should invest and mount a simple display (as other companies do).

I would definitely cast my vote (if I had one ) against this idea. I want the supercharger network to remain as reliable as possible, and payment hardware / touchscreens / receipt printers / etc just add more hardware to fail and maintain. Let those things die with the gas stations.

 

[DP26]

To be clear. When you dispute, the card company does not investigate. They ask the merchant to accept the refund, or to fight. If the merchant fights, the merchant usually has to pay for the fight. The card company makes their profit either way.

 

[Big Dog]

I'd challenge the charge with your cc, which you can probably do online. It's such a small amount, they'll give you immediate credit.

And then I'd file a complaint with someone in your state Govt, such as a Consumer Bureau, who can get Tesla's attention.

 

[power.saver]

This whole episode bespeaks of a larger problem. What if you had arrived at 11:55pm and stayed for 30 minutes? Then only the first 5 minutes should be at the higher rate, and the rest at the lower rate. Or if you arrived at 5:55am (with a rate change a 6:00) and charged until 6:25am. Would the last 25 minutes be at the lower rate? The electric companies are able to manage rate changes just fine. It's also unbelievable they don't have accurate time at the supercharger. If its doing electronic transactions, indicating station usage, and connected to a network, it has the correct time. Most likely Tesla doesn't have this working correctly in their billing system, and doesn't want to admit that.

 

[MP3Mike]

What if you had arrived at 11:55pm and stayed for 30 minutes? Then only the first 5 minutes should be at the higher rate, and the rest at the lower rate.

Nope. They make it very clear that the rate is set at the time you plug-in and applies to the entire session. In this case you would pay the higher rate for the entire 30 minute session. So, you can plug in one-minute before the price goes up, and then charge as much as you want at the lower rate.

 

[arcos]

Nope. They make it very clear that the rate is set at the time you plug-in and applies to the entire session. In this case you would pay the higher rate for the entire 30 minute session. So, you can plug in one-minute before the price goes up, and then charge as much as you want at the lower rate.

Yes, it stands clear that "Charging rate is determined by the plug-in time and does not adjust if pricing changes during the charging session.".
But they say "plug-in time" not "plug-in time on the charger". So their explanation that time on the charger can be shifted a few minutes, is incorrect.

 

[Big Earl]

Tesla does not do credit card pre-authorizations. They just bill you for what you use. If you don't have the credit available on your card, the balance stays on the car/Tesla account and your Supercharging is restricted until you clear your balance.

 

[jjrandorin]

After creating a dispute the bank is responsible for investigating who is right.
They are Tesla and they have an invoice, I'm a car owner and have no hard proof (maybe except my Google Maps history).
Guess who is more trustful for the bank.

In my opinion, the impact is bigger if more people hear stories like this, than the $19 dispute.

I posted it to share my disappointment and check if there is anybody else who had a similar experience. And it looks like I'm not alone.

Ok, so your purpose was "impact" and to talk about how disappointed you were, vs looking for a resolution (money back). Thanks for clarifying.

 

[father_of_6]

Ok, so your purpose was "impact" and to talk about how disappointed you were, vs looking for a resolution (money back). Thanks for clarifying.

To me, the more important resolution would be to solve the root problem, not get the $12 dollars back. IMO the best way to do that would be to dispute the charge so that there's at least a chance of someone at Tesla investigating it.

Instead, by complaining here it comes off as more of a smear campaign to me.

I'm not accusing @arcos, but there have been a good number of people who create an account here to drop a complaint and then never come back - and in many cases their stories don't ring true. Since that precedent exists, I tend to look at many posts like this with a dose of skepticism (my problem, not @arcos').

 

[arcos]

To me, the more important resolution would be to solve the root problem, not get the $12 dollars back. IMO the best way to do that would be to dispute the charge so that there's at least a chance of someone at Tesla investigating it.

Instead, by complaining here it comes off as more of a smear campaign to me.

I'm not accusing @arcos, but there have been a good number of people who create an account here to drop a complaint and then never come back - and in many cases their stories don't ring true. Since that precedent exists, I tend to look at many posts like this with a dose of skepticism (my problem, not @arcos').

You (the group) convinced me to take action, and that's exactly what I did - I did dispute the charge.
I don't know if it will make any difference (for Tesla), but I think I needed your support and confirmation that it makes sense to "fight".
I'm not talking about the $12, I'm talking about the rules.
I'm thinking of repeating the exact same scenario, starting the charge at 12:03 AM and recording a video to document it.
Same station, same situation, etc.