The New RAV4 EV

[MarkR]

Kind of harsh to refer to the RAV4EV as "non-premium"...

Ca'mon TEG, every EV is "non-premium" compared to the Tesla.

 

[Larry Chanin]

A different way of saying this, related to the previous discussion, is that the EPA 5-cycle number, when actually measured on a Model S, turns out to be much higher than the @55 mph value multiplied with 0.7. The actual ratio is 265 / 300 = 0.88.

The about same ratio should be applicable to the 160 mile battery. The weight/battery difference between the 40 kWh pack and the 85 kWh pack is addressed by using a conversion of 160/300 instead of 40/85.

Hi Norbert,

Now that we know the range of the 85 kWh pack is 320 miles at 55 mph, not 300 miles, your approach should probably use a conversion of 16o/320. Which comes out to 133 miles for your approach versus 125 miles for mine.

Larry

 

[Norbert]

Hi Norbert,

Now that we know the range of the 85 kWh pack is 320 miles at 55 mph, not 300 miles, your approach should probably use a conversion of 16o/320. Which comes out to 133 miles for your approach versus 125 miles for mine.

Larry

Actually, 320 miles is for the EPA 2-cycle test. I'm not aware that the @55 mph would have changed. If it did, I guess the 160 mile number would change as well, and the ratio would likely remain the same. So for the time being, with the available information, my estimate for the 5-cycle range for the 40 kWh pack Model S is 141 miles per charge (265 * 160/300).

 

[Larry Chanin]

Actually, 320 miles is for the EPA 2-cycle test. I'm not aware that the @55 mph would have changed. If it did, I guess the 160 mile number would change as well, and the ratio would likely remain the same. So for the time being, with the available information, my estimate for the 5-cycle range for the 40 kWh pack Model S is 141 miles per charge (265 * 160/300).

Hi Norbert,

True the 320 miles is for the EPA 2-cycle test, but if you examine the Range versus Constant Speed graph you will see that, similar to the Roadster, the 55 mph range very closely approximates the EPA 2-cycle test range results.

I guess we'll just have to wait to see what the actual EPA rating turns out to be, but between our two approaches I think we've pretty much bracketed where the final number should be. :wink:

By the way the .7 multiplier guideline is designed by EPA to be conservative. In the event that the car maker has 2-cycle test results, and doesn't wish to go to the delay and expense of adding the extra three cycles, the EPA will apply the .7 multiplier to derive the 5-cycle published ratings. Tesla mentions this potential reduction in range between advertised and EPA ratings in the Annual Report as a worst case scenario when discussing risk factors.

Larry

 

[Norbert]

True the 320 miles is for the EPA 2-cycle test, but if you examine the Range versus Constant Speed graph you will see that, similar to the Roadster, the 55 mph range very closely approximates the EPA 2-cycle test range results.

I guess we'll just have to wait to see what the actual EPA rating turns out to be, but between our two approaches I think we've pretty much bracketed where the final number should be. :wink:

Yes, we'll have to wait for that, also since, for example, we don't have the corresponding graph for the 40 kWh pack (it is a computer model).

By the way the .7 multiplier guideline is designed by EPA to be conservative. In the event that the car maker has 2-cycle test results, and doesn't wish to go to the delay and expense of adding the extra three cycles, the EPA will apply the .7 multiplier to derive the 5-cycle published ratings. Tesla mentions this potential reduction in range between advertised and EPA ratings in the Annual Report as a worst case scenario when discussing risk factors.

Yes, it stated that there was a risk it could be up to 30% lower, I think, and it turned out to be only 11.7% lower. That's quite good, I think, and much better than most casual observers expected. Of course then it will be interesting what the first Model S owners will report as their "real-world" ranges.

 

[rabar10]

Reminder -- let's keep chatter here on the RAV4-EV.

It's OK to compare range, pack sizes, aero, etc. to the Model S here, but S-specific chatter belongs in its own forum.

Thanks!

 

[Lloyd]

There has been some discrepancy as to where the Rav 4 EV will be released. Some have reported Los Angeles County San Francisco county etc. Correct is by Sales Region. For example the Los Angeles Sales Region extends all the way to Central California, and 1/2 of the way to San Diego. Check with your local Toyota Dealer to see if they will be getting an allocation of Rav4 EV's .

 

[Lloyd]

Leviton announces 9.6 kw EVSE to match Rav4's 10 kw charger. 40 amp J1772! This is progress!!

http://www.plugincars.com/leviton-unveils-40-amp-6-hour-charger-toyota-rav4-ev-121459.html

 

[Lloyd]

To the moderators: Since delivery of the Rav4 is confirmed with the Tesla drive and components. Should it have a place on the title page of the forum?

 

[Bradleybang]

Stopped by Tesla Factory yesterday for a quick charge and saw these.

 

[AnOutsider]

Was that Tesla's? As in, they're using some of the Rav 4's as security vehicles? Pretty cool if so. I always feel the best way to improve your product is to use it.

 

[dsm363]

That's not my point. My point is that some who drive both Leaf and Roadster (presumably in the same style on the same roads), came to the impression, by comparing the two, that the Roadster's 245 miles, corresponds to getting 85 miles on the Leaf. Meaning, for them it would be as easy to get 245 miles with the Roadster, as it would be to get 85 miles with the Leaf. This would mean that the Roadster might get a better value than 245 * 0.7, if it were actually measured in the 5-cycle test.

Of course driving style and what roads you're on make all the difference. If you're trying to do all highway driving then 245 miles can be difficult depending on what the speeds are (here, some of them are 75 mph so driving 55 mph can be tough). If you add a decent amount of city driving in there, hitting 245 miles shouldn't be too hard. Wouldn't the 5 cycle test result in a lower number than 245? It adds one cycle with up to 80 mph I thought and also uses heat and AC in some of the other cycles.

 

[vfx]

Leviton announces 9.6 kw EVSE to match Rav4's 10 kw charger. 40 amp J1772! This is progress!!

http://www.plugincars.com/leviton-unveils-40-amp-6-hour-charger-toyota-rav4-ev-121459.html

Siemens has 30 to 70A units
http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/siemens-versicharge

 

[Lloyd]

Not available until Fall 2012

Siemens has 30 to 70A units
http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessories/siemens-versicharge

 

[Norbert]

Of course driving style and what roads you're on make all the difference. If you're trying to do all highway driving then 245 miles can be difficult depending on what the speeds are (here, some of them are 75 mph so driving 55 mph can be tough).

Sure, just as it can be difficult with the Leaf to get 85 miles under same circumstances.

If you add a decent amount of city driving in there, hitting 245 miles shouldn't be too hard. Wouldn't the 5 cycle test result in a lower number than 245? It adds one cycle with up to 80 mph I thought and also uses heat and AC in some of the other cycles.

Of course the 5 cycle test would be lower than the 2 cycle test. But according to the "multiply by 0.7" logic, we should have expected 210 miles for the Model S, however we actually got 265 miles. And that was my original point, that at least for Tesla's power-trains/cars, the ratio can be more than 0.7 (compared to the 2-cycle number, but even more so compared to the @55mph number), and in fact for the Model S the ratio turned out to be higher than 0.7 (compared to all three of these: @55mph, range graph, and 2-cycle).

Meanwhile, for the RAV4, the 5-cycle number (105 miles) turned out to be (according to current knowledge) higher than the advertised number, even though some were concerned it could be much less.

 

[Lloyd]

Nothing New!

http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1366&doc_id=244906&f_src=designnews_gnews&dfpPParams=ind_184,industry_auto,industry_alt,bid_318,aid_244906&dfpLayout=blog

 

[qwk]

Lloyd, has the Toyota dealership you placed the reservation at have any idea when you will be able to take delivery? Are they going to sell you one at MSRP?

 

[Lloyd]

Lloyd, has the Toyota dealership you placed the reservation at have any idea when you will be able to take delivery? Are they going to sell you one at MSRP?

They are really good about keeping me informed. They call me about every 10 days and give me an update. They officially say they don't know when deliveries will occur. Unoffically they expect to start recieving them "mid summer"

 

[qwk]

They are really good about keeping me informed. They call me about every 10 days and give me an update. They officially say they don't know when deliveries will occur. Unoffically they expect to start recieving them "mid summer"

The reason I ask is I'm thinking about getting one if delivery could be soon. Just thinking about waiting another 6 months for a model S sucks.
Do you by chance know how many units your dealer is getting or could get?

 

[Lloyd]

Lloyd, has the Toyota dealership you placed the reservation at have any idea when you will be able to take delivery? Are they going to sell you one at MSRP?

Regarding MSRP, yes..... and likely below, but I buy a lot of cars from them and used to work for the lease department between degrees many years ago. Call them, and I'm sure they would sell at MSRP or possibly better. Each dealership will only get several every year keep in mind.

Patrick Richmond
Internet Sales Manager
P.O. Box 1217
700 East Betteravia Road
Santa Maria, CA 93456

ph 805-361-2377
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