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The New RAV4 EV
- Thread starter EVNow
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strider
Active Member
My real-world range on my Roadster is 195 miles so that corresponds to a 79% conversion.
But I guess that was my question, why wouldn't they have developed a pure-electric power steering system for the Prius that they could then use on the Rav4? Just seems like a huge waste.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
They may have just used a small electric motor to drive the existing RAV4 pump, probably the easiest way to do it with the least amount of engineering. Adapting the Prius fully electric assist steering setup might have been more complicated. Or maybe they did and that other reservoir is something else.
Norbert
TSLA will win
That's how I understood it, and what I responded to.
That's not my point. My point is that some who drive both Leaf and Roadster (presumably in the same style on the same roads), came to the impression, by comparing the two, that the Roadster's 245 miles, corresponds to getting 85 miles on the Leaf. Meaning, for them it would be as easy to get 245 miles with the Roadster, as it would be to get 85 miles with the Leaf. This would mean that the Roadster might get a better value than 245 * 0.7, if it were actually measured in the 5-cycle test.
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Norbert
TSLA will win
Tesla Falls as Toyota Prices Electric RAV4 Near $50,000 - Bloomberg
Two things I noticed in this article:
Like some other articles, it (over-)simplifies matters by saying the RAv4 EV would be twice as expensive as the gas version. I think that's not correct. The corresponding RAv4 gas version seems to be around $30k, and the RAv4 EV is $40k after tax credit in CA. That's 33% more, or 25% less. (Not counting gas savings and the monetary value of HOV lane access).
Then there is this statement:
But that is assuming all the $100 million are component costs, whereas I'd think they include development costs and other costs, perhaps even for the prototypes.
Two things I noticed in this article:
Like some other articles, it (over-)simplifies matters by saying the RAv4 EV would be twice as expensive as the gas version. I think that's not correct. The corresponding RAv4 gas version seems to be around $30k, and the RAv4 EV is $40k after tax credit in CA. That's 33% more, or 25% less. (Not counting gas savings and the monetary value of HOV lane access).
Then there is this statement:
But that is assuming all the $100 million are component costs, whereas I'd think they include development costs and other costs, perhaps even for the prototypes.
strider
Active Member
Good to know. So they do have a electric power steering system in the "Toyota parts bin" but JRP3 is probably right that it was easier to leave the existing RAV4 hydraulic system in place and just add a pump vs adapting the Prius system to the RAV. Also makes it easier to run gas and EV on the same assembly line.
Today Tesla published a blog entry that discusses the efficiency and range of the Model S and quoted what it expects for the EPA 5-cycle results for the 85 kWh battery.
Model S Efficiency and Range
By Elon Musk and JB Straubel
The article states:
Extrapolating this to a 40 kWh battery pack the estimated EPA range for the Model S would be 125 miles provided the 40 kWh pack uses the same type of cell as the 85 kWh pack. There have been some discussions suggesting that the 40 kWh packs might use the previous Panasonic cells. If so, that would reduce the estimated EPA range to 115 miles.
So this Tesla information suggests that the Model S 40 kWh would have a EPA range between 15%-25% greater than the RAV4 EV if as Toyota states "This all-electric SUV has an expected driving range rating of approximately 100 miles."
Larry
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DuncanWatson
Member
Hi Duncan,
Although the Engadget article correctly quotes the Tesla blog article which states, "One quick takeaway from this graph is that the 85 kWh Model S is expected to achieve 350-250 miles of range during constant-speed highway driving at 50-70 mph with the conditions listed above.", when you actually review the graph you find that the range is only about 337 miles at 50 mph, not 350 miles.
Larry
Norbert
TSLA will win
Those are rounded numbers. According to the graph, it does reach a range of 350 miles at about 47 mph (3 mph less than the 50 mph stated).
Norbert
TSLA will win
As I explained here: concerns about the 40kWh pack , I'd expect the 40 kWh pack to have a 5-cycle range of about 140 miles per charge. This is analogous to the 160 /300 ratio for the 40 kWh pack compared to the 85 kWh pack. Probably this is mostly due to the lower weight of the battery pack (even though energy density is higher).
BTW, the 265 mpc range for the 85 kWh pack means that the Models S gets a bit more range (2.5%) out of its battery size than the Leaf.
In the Q&A session, Elon mentioned a number of 105 mpc for the RAV4, however also 120 mpc in some scenarios, and 170 mpc specifically for the city driving scenario (170 mpc compares to the Leaf's 100 miles number). The 5-cycle number may have been 105 mpc, but I'm not completely certain.
It seems that the RAV4, due to being a SUV, gets a bit less range out of its battery size (as is also the case for the Model X).
Norbert
TSLA will win
A different way of saying this, related to the previous discussion, is that the EPA 5-cycle number, when actually measured on a Model S, turns out to be much higher than the @55 mph value multiplied with 0.7. The actual ratio is 265 / 300 = 0.88.
The about same ratio should be applicable to the 160 mile battery. The weight/battery difference between the 40 kWh pack and the 85 kWh pack is addressed by using a conversion of 160/300 instead of 40/85.
The about same ratio should be applicable to the 160 mile battery. The weight/battery difference between the 40 kWh pack and the 85 kWh pack is addressed by using a conversion of 160/300 instead of 40/85.
This is from the Q1 Tesla newsletter to investors regarding the expected range of the RAV4EV:
"With the largest battery pack of any non-premium EV, it is expected to have a city range of almost 170 miles"
http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...67959/9429b5fe-3ebc-4e93-9fe9-7655b15301f1/Q1 2012 Tesla Shareholder Letter.pdf
"With the largest battery pack of any non-premium EV, it is expected to have a city range of almost 170 miles"
http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...67959/9429b5fe-3ebc-4e93-9fe9-7655b15301f1/Q1 2012 Tesla Shareholder Letter.pdf
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