The anti-Tesla EV lovers

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Why some people just don't like the Tesla brand and willing to buy none Tesla EVs despite all the difficulties that come with a none Tesla EVs like charging and support?!

Too big.
Large turning radius.
No configurable regen braking (and no blended braking)
No dumb cruise option/fallback.
Also:
No service center in state.
Poor customer service.
Frameless windows.
Oversized wheels. (Although everybody's doing it, unfortunately.)

Tesla doesn't and apparently will never make a vehicle I want.

 

[Unclepaul]

Tesla installs it's cameras to provide the best FSD capabilities. Other companies provide cameras to provide a birds eye view for the driver. People need to decide which system is best for moving forward.
The best drivers aid is...no need for a drivers aid, the car drives itself.

 

[kilpatds]

Wanting?
So no body started the 800V.
I assume it is Tesla who is leading the 800V

Manufacturers 1 through 8 in that list have 800V charging vehicles for sale today. (Well, unsure about polestar. Sure of the 1-6,8). Tesla has the cybertruck ... and no where to charge it at full speed. You have to take your Telsa Cybertruck to a 3rd party charging station to max out it's charging.

 

[shahryaran]

A common point that I see between all the comments here is that people like traditional way of car making:

Buttons
Framed windows
360 camera view
Etc

If we're to not owned any car in your life and I let you drive and choose between a Tesla and a none Tesla for the first time, you would definitely choose the Tesla.

Take model 3 for example:
Minimal interior
Designed for FSD
etc

Cars should have been like model 3 in the 90s because we had the technology to make cars like model 3 in the 90s. But we didn't because the control of the direction of progress is not in the hands of engineers.

 

[rlzalusky]

Tesla installs it's cameras to provide the best FSD capabilities. Other companies provide cameras to provide a birds eye view for the driver. People need to decide which system is best for moving forward.
The best drivers aid is...no need for a drivers aid, the car drives itself.

BUT until then we need drivers aids. FSD is not ready yet and COSTS MONEY. IF it was free, working well, and available to all I might agree.
Getting rid of safety features before the alternatives are available is not good business. USS being an another example.

 

[MSLR2023ULTRED]

To some extent it’s an emotional issue (for number of reasons - political views, Musk personality etc ). Just like there are anti tesla people, there are those blind tesla fanboys.

 

[Tam]

A common point that I see between all the comments here is that people like traditional way of car making:

Buttons
Framed windows
360 camera view
Etc

If we're to not owned any car in your life and I let you drive and choose between a Tesla and a none Tesla for the first time, you would definitely choose the Tesla.

Take model 3 for example:
Minimal interior
Designed for FSD
etc

Cars should have been like model 3 in the 90s because we had the technology to make cars like model 3 in the 90s. But we didn't because the control of the direction of progress is not in the hands of engineers.

I would argue that the traditional way is about safety.

Tesla seems to put profits before safety.

Less cameras, less USS, less radar, less heads-up display, less physical buttons... are great for experimental robots, but drivers are not robots.

In 2019:

“We discussed a HUD [for Model 3]. I’ve tried various HUDs and I find them pretty annoying. We felt that [Model 3] would increasingly go towards self-driving, and then you wouldn’t really care about having [information] on the windscreen. So, as things are approaching autonomy, why project things that you don’t care about on the [windscreen]?" Musk said."

 

[E90alex]

Because every other car on the road in many big cities is a Tesla and it’s just boring now.

Because some people simply think Teslas are ugly and don’t like them.

Because Tesla has made many curious choices n the latest cars which are unintuitive and harder to use or make the car worse (stalk removal, radar removal, USS removal, no rain sensor, etc).

Hopefully the supercharger roll out to other brands will continue which will make DCFC better for everyone. But if you have charging at home then the charging network is basically inconsequential the majority of the time unless you take a lot of road trips.

Most other legacy brands have a far superior service, support and repair network than Tesla does. Mobile service is nice but some brands are offering that now too. Or at least pick up and drop off service.

And yes because some people simply don’t want to be associated with the CEO and his antics, which is perfectly valid.

 

[shahryaran]

I would argue that the traditional way is about safety.

Tesla seems to put profits before safety.

Less cameras, less USS, less radar, less heads-up display, less physical buttons... are great for experimental robots, but drivers are not robots.

In 2019:

“We discussed a HUD [for Model 3]. I’ve tried various HUDs and I find them pretty annoying. We felt that [Model 3] would increasingly go towards self-driving, and then you wouldn’t really care about having [information] on the windscreen. So, as things are approaching autonomy, why project things that you don’t care about on the [windscreen]?" Musk said."

Isn't model 3 the safest car in north America?

 

[strider]

Tesla installs it's cameras to provide the best FSD capabilities. Other companies provide cameras to provide a birds eye view for the driver. People need to decide which system is best for moving forward.
The best drivers aid is...no need for a drivers aid, the car drives itself.

As @rlzalusky said, FSD is an expensive option. The car needs to work for people without FSD. Also, FSD simply doesn't work in the use cases for a 360 view, like parking or navigating places that aren't defined streets.

If we're to not owned any car in your life and I let you drive and choose between a Tesla and a none Tesla for the first time, you would definitely choose the Tesla.

Take model 3 for example:
Minimal interior
Designed for FSD
etc

Cars should have been like model 3 in the 90s because we had the technology to make cars like model 3 in the 90s. But we didn't because the control of the direction of progress is not in the hands of engineers.

But like everything Tesla has taken it too far. I would not put a new brand new driver in a stalkless car. They would be heads down, jabbing at a screen or the steering wheel, instead of watching where they were going. The control systems in cars have become what they are as a result of many years of use and study. They work for humans and should not be cast aside just because Elon needs another billion dollars.

Have you driven a stalkless car? I am pretty sure the answer is no. I have driven a stalkless car for 2 years now and it is absolute f'ing garbage. I still have to take my eyes off the road and look at the wheel or screen to do things that before I could do without looking. Tesla has taken a huge step backwards in the pursuit of saving $20/car. This was only and ever about cost savings and had nothing to do with being better.

Thankfully the aftermarket has stepped in and I was able to replace that useless yoke and soon I will have stalks.

 

[strider]

I would argue that the traditional way is about safety.

Tesla seems to put profits before safety.

Less cameras, less USS, less radar, less heads-up display, less physical buttons... are great for experimental robots, but drivers are not robots.

In 2019:

“We discussed a HUD [for Model 3]. I’ve tried various HUDs and I find them pretty annoying. We felt that [Model 3] would increasingly go towards self-driving, and then you wouldn’t really care about having [information] on the windscreen. So, as things are approaching autonomy, why project things that you don’t care about on the [windscreen]?" Musk said."

Great points. Elon is famous for removing things before the replacement works. I have no problem with using the cameras to operate the wipers, but they removed the dedicated rain sensor in 2016 and the wipers weren't usable until 2022. They removed USS before Vision was able to replicate the functionality. Same for RADAR. Elon thinks that FSD will be here "in 2 weeks" so he is crippling the cars in anticipation of something that is still many years away. It will bite them.

 

[PassingLane]

Tesla installs it's cameras to provide the best FSD capabilities. Other companies provide cameras to provide a birds eye view for the driver. People need to decide which system is best for moving forward.
The best drivers aid is...no need for a drivers aid, the car drives itself.

I don't feel the cameras provide the best FSD experience. Things seemed better when LIDAR (or was it radar?) was in the mix.

 

[strider]

Isn't model 3 the safest car in north America?

Nope. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/advice/safest-cars-of-the-year

 

[rlzalusky]

As @rlzalusky said, FSD is an expensive option. The car needs to work for people without FSD. Also, FSD simply doesn't work in the use cases for a 360 view, like parking or navigating places that aren't defined streets.

But like everything Tesla has taken it too far. I would not put a new brand new driver in a stalkless car. They would be heads down, jabbing at a screen or the steering wheel, instead of watching where they were going. The control systems in cars have become what they are as a result of many years of use and study. They work for humans and should not be cast aside just because Elon needs another billion dollars.

Have you driven a stalkless car? I am pretty sure the answer is no. I have driven a stalkless car for 2 years now and it is absolute f'ing garbage. I still have to take my eyes off the road and look at the wheel or screen to do things that before I could do without looking. Tesla has taken a huge step backwards in the pursuit of saving $20/car. This was only and ever about cost savings and had nothing to do with being better.

Thankfully the aftermarket has stepped in and I was able to replace that useless yoke and soon I will have stalks.

Exactly in the case of my accident. The rear view mirror camera can only see far ahead. It cannot see that there is a curb or child sitting in front of the car.
A front bumper camera similar to the rear one can see those things. Tesla does think about things because they do slow you down if they see brake lights on the car in front of you. I would bet dimes to donuts if they had front bumper cameras/LIDAR they would have the code to prevent my form of accident.

 

[Msicario]

For

Why some people just don't like the Tesla brand and willing to buy none Tesla EVs despite all the difficulties that come with a none Tesla EVs like charging and support?!

me it was the huge discrepancy (lie) between the advertise range and the real world range Insane; One has to drive around 60 MPH, on a perfect level road and perfect weather conditions, without having the A/C on…

 

[Tam]

Isn't model 3 the safest car in north America?

Yes, indeed: Only after someone crashes!!!!

 

[oldsport]

Why some people just don't like the Tesla brand and willing to buy none Tesla EVs despite all the difficulties that come with a none Tesla EVs like charging and support?!

also, in many locations of many cities, tesla chargers are far less numerous than evgo or electrifyamerica ccs charger locations...

 

[jay1122]

I think tesla has the competitive price edge. Especially after tax credit. But tesla also chopped a lot of stuff. No instrument panel, no USS sensor, no stalk and gear change lever, simple interior. Everything focused on reducing parts and cost in the disguised name of minimalism and autonomous driving. The charging network used to be the holy grail of tesla owner is now being open to other manufacturers.

 

[BeeGood]

Different people may have different preferences.

Some hate China but they still have many Chinese products. Many parts in Tesla is Chinese including the computers. Almost all politicians voted to ban Tik Tok but many of them still use it to reach young voters. During the heights of Trump's anti-China rhetoric, his clothing lines still were made in China. Even MAGA crowds were buying hats and other MAGA items made by China...

Some people hate petroleum because of human rights violations and war, but they still fly to visit families and vacations. The still go cruises that consumed huge amount of oil. They still rent an Ice when away from home....

The US hates Russia but NASA still uses its space service.

Please do not be fooled by politics: People would use a product that they need even though they politically hate it.

The needs could be low price, convenience, or even technology.

You are 1000% correct, but there are people that actually cite Musk’s rhetoric as a reason they wouldn’t buy a Tesla.

You’ve illustrated perfectly why this is a ridiculous thing to do, but people are doing it.

 

[rlzalusky]

You are 1000% correct, but there are people that actually cite Musk’s rhetoric as a reason they wouldn’t buy a Tesla.

You’ve illustrated perfectly why this is a ridiculous thing to do, but people are doing it.

Rhetoric is on my list but all the other things are at the top of my list and they are important. At this point I can no longer trust he will steward the company to success. A company is only as good as its management and they are all going leaving him alone to do things like gut the supercharger team.

We have already seen what he did to Twitter.