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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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We have massive confirmation bias on this board, so while you may be right, I feel duty bound to point out that BYD's sales numbers were up over 10% from the prior week. We can't just say "Covid" like that explains away everything. Admittedly, I don't know the whole story, but we all want the China demand worries to be wrong so very badly.
This is irrelevant. If CN is not buying, TSLA can just continue opening up new unpenetrated markets now. CN demand will ebb and flow, but the world at large has a huge capacity to absorb Shanghai output.
 
Before there was so many data-analytics products available in Internet tech, you largely had to have blind faith and a crazy side to think that your startup was going to work out from an early stage (also, connections to a far fewer set of investors and money than nowadays). For the most part, there were moats needed...like starting with superior tech and the best engineers to get anywhere. It's still largely needed in a general sense (so so many untapped industries), but not as much in Internet tech as it used to be from what I can gather. People can experiment and hypothesis test their way into successful startups nowadays.

To me, it's similar to investing as most retail investors have not been privy for decades to the type of data analytics and datasets that are available to analyze now. Nowadays, if you're just starting out, most young investors have the advantage and disadvantage of the internet. It's an advantage/benefit because of the information, it's also a disadvantage/weakness because too much info is paralyzing as well as separates people from faith in leadership of a team to do the extraordinary even when info/data says otherwise. Willpower, in other words.

It's built in, based off of experience, to have this type of mentality as an investor and entrepreneur.
No disagreement here at all: Takes huge amount of prep, first-hand research and analysis, foundational education to buy. Continuous monitoring to hold. Faith and trust in that your informed judgement not to sell.
 
Any bets for 2024?

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There’s also a thing called luck.

All wisdom in the history of the market says you cannot consistently time the market (unless maybe you’re a quant fund like renaissance with army of Ivy League phd a). Also goes in the face of some of the greatest investing legends in history. But hey, if you want to listen to a YouTuber with a limited track record like that (who no matter what the market does makes money off advertisement revenue for clicks) then you go for it.

Greed slaughters. You saw it in the options thread when people were doing bull put spreads during the peak and who are selling covered calls right now during multi year lows. But hey, Chicken has the crystal ball for the future and you too want to time the market 👍 go ahead.
As soon as I said something about the close-mindedness of some bulls causing unwarranted tension and drama, I got greeted by one. Thank you for your word of encouragement. I don't believe in luck but rather the result of hard work and experience so I've been trying to time the market with great results.

I hate to get my posts deleted for bickering.
 
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I would be hard pressed to say whether the share price was more detached from reality in May/June of 2019 or right now, but I would lean towards 2019 being a bit more disconnected.

Taking into account how different Tesla is now, from the Tesla then, I would say the two periods are remarkably similar in terms of share price disconnect from reality, but it must be remembered that we are only about a third of the frothy all-time highs. In the bigger picture, that's not much. Countering the view that the all-time high was rather frothy is the fact that over a year of impressive growth has occurred in production capacity as well, with plenty more unrealized growth in capacity that is pretty much a given. If this is "all" there was, the market could almost be forgiven for the low valuation.

However, there is so much unrealized growth that Tesla has already proven is economically viable, lucrative even, just waiting on the sidelines. Namely, the energy business that is just beginning to show the shoots of new growth. Beyond simply selling battery storage, it's the energy networks like what Tesla is in the nascent stages of in Texas that I think offer nearly unlimited potential. Come spring, these shoots could grow into branches and then leaves which would be worthy of accommodating in growth models. And this will likely be followed up by surprising success in an entirely new automotive market segment, light trucks. If the manufacturing cost structure of Cybertruck pans out as expected, the results will blow away what pretty much every automotive analyst expects. Realized volumes of these new growth opportunities will all come down to the batteries so continue to watch the ramp of 4680 cells with the understanding that this is long-term initiative with long-term advantages, just as was revealed on Battery Day.

Personally, I see Tesla's success in these markets as pretty solid, high-probability results based upon how Tesla thinks about problems like this and their track record of being able to leverage their low-cost structure to implement the solutions they develop in a profitable manner. Additionally, every share of TSLA potentially contains huge potential value in things that I believe are still likely, even if less certain. Things like FSD and affordable humanoid robots that Tesla is currently hard at work developing in a cost-effective manner.

These things make the current walk-walk down of TSLA shares look quaint. No one knows when it will end, but my conviction is strong that this quarters growth and developments will have us climbing out of this hole, even if it takes a year or more to start testing old highs again. The big picture tells us that the world economy is in the transition from the age of oil and gas to an economy based on sustainable energy, not because we know we have to, but because it's increasingly cheaper and more affordable. The fact that we know we must make the transition simply provides additional tailwinds to the speed of the transition that is really driven by economics at its core. I can think of no other company that will benefit more strongly, and with more certainty than Tesla.
Additionally, even if the external megapacks demand suddenly disappears (which it won't), TSLA can deploy these internally and do energy arbitrage to its increasing customer base, just selling electricity at peak, but buying at night. EVEN if external demand dries up, there is still this internal virtuous flywheel that becomes possible with economies of scale and network effect. Opening up supercharging network, just amplifies the latter.
 
The comp is BYD. Though not sure if BYDs numbers include hybrids, which have a sunsetting tax incentive on 12/31. Anyone tracking care to chime in?
Yes, NEV includes BEV, PHEV, and FCEV.
BYD is about 50/50 BEV/PHEV
NEV purchase tax exemption is extended through 2023. ICE vehicles with <2L engine and <300,000 yuan have their purchase tax lowered from 10% to 5%.
 
A public exchange between Ross and Elon would actually be great. It would be the most response any of us haven gotten from the Tesla company. Ross is concerned about a CEO that is highly distracted. I hope he presses Elon on it because Elon's sarcasm thus far is a non-response.
Not really. One can be a $TSLA bull or bear, like Elon or not, but Elon is obviously a massively capable human being. Gerbs is a clown whose only skill is sales to gullible people. There is nothing to be gained by wasting Elons time by making him waste time engaging Gerbs.
 
This is irrelevant. If CN is not buying, TSLA can just continue opening up new unpenetrated markets now. CN demand will ebb and flow, but the world at large has a huge capacity to absorb Shanghai output.
I mostly agree with this for now, except about it being irrelevant. TSLA can find more and more places to send their vehicles, especially while they're trying to ramp up to 2 million and then 3 million vehicles, and so on. I think at some point, though, Chinese demand will matter. Maybe concerns over Chinese demand will be laid to rest by then. But if they continue to get smoked by BYD and/or other competitors, it definitely matters. I've bought shares every day for the last 2 weeks, so I remain optimistic overall, but just trying to remain reasonably objective/realistic.
 
Not really. One can be a $TSLA bull or bear, like Elon or not, but Elon is obviously a massively capable human being. Gerbs is a clown whose only skill is sales to gullible people. There is nothing to be gained by wasting Elons time by making him waste time engaging Gerbs.
Gerber wouldn't be my first choice to lead this conversation, but he does have Elon's ear at least a little bit, and if he can get Elon to open up a little bit about what is going on, then that's better than nothing. Maybe it's a waste of Elon's time? I wish Elon would waste a little time communicating with shareholders, and waste less time picking fights on Twitter.

I actually like Gerber, but I do think he's a dangerous follow on Twitter if you are hanging on his every word. He has good points to make about Tesla, but he's overly emotional and kind of a shill.
 
Perspective:
suppose you were the unluckiest, worst market timer of all time and bought TSLA at very top back in November/December 2010 at split adjusted $2.428 and sold it 9 years later at very low of $11.80 in June 2019. you made 4.85X your money over 9 years for ARR 19%
most money managers never make 19% ARR over 9 years.
now if you were not only unlucky, not only THE worst market timer of 2019 but also had the utterly lack of evidence based, blind faith type of stubborn investing streak that actually made you not sell your TSLA at the very low but instead hold it for another 30 months then instead of 4.85X your money for mere 19% ARR, you made 170X your money over 12 years which is approx 53 to 54% ARR
for $1 million initial investment that is a difference of $165 million due to lack of faith and willingness to sell at a new low due to sheer panic
something to think about before you sell at a new low
not financial or investment advice
 
I think it's fair to say that his reasoning for the drop was lucky, but he still wound up getting it right.

Haha, no he didn't. CGS bought back in at about 158, so unless he sold already, at 140 he's now -13% underwater on his $300K "investment".

The guy's a technical trader, with the morals of an alleycat. No need to overthink his MO.

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