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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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If the country goes on lock-down, baseball games are played in empty stadiums, truckers and port workers can't find work, etc., we are going to see a lot of car loan defaults, mortgage defaults and foreclosures, the list goes on. This can absolutely become as bad as 2008. I haven't sold any shares (although I wish I had). I am not backing up the truck until TSLA is a real bargain (under 400).

Something tells me you won't be backing up the truck. Because the chance of the world's fastest-growing and most innovative automaker going under $400 is so slim as to not be worth considering. You couldn't stop the flood of buyers at $500, let alone under $400. The other problem would be finding a shareholder willing to sell TSLA at those prices.
 
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Tomorrow is the last chance to buy stock at this level despite macro situation, Rookies from Morgan Stanley expectations was 80 K cars for quarter, I think this will open up at least $60-70 higher tomorrow.

I expect a strong open tomorrow. But I still wouldn't be surprised to see it touch $585 or so Tues. or Wed. before recovering with some vigor. The recent news is very good but people don't always get the memo (or understand it) in a timely manner.
 
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This seems to be calculated based on delivered cars while Elon's post looks like 1.000.000 production ("making").
Thirdrowtesla corrected math for the 1 millionth car shortly after: Update on this math: Chart shows deliveries, not production. According to wikipedia cumulative production is 921,046 –– so around 20,000 cars in inventory around the world that would put production at 78,539 at this point in the quarter

Twitter
 
(See above for previous est'd Q1 Prod)
REVISED 2020Q1 Production Estimate:

Here is my revised 2020Q1 estimated car production: (based on Wikipedia cumul. prod. thru 2019Q4)

(1,000,000 - 921,046) = 78,954 (or 79K cumulative production so far in 2020Q1)​

Then with 21 prod. days left in Q1 (note: Mar 31 is César Chávez Day Stat. Holiday), we expect these numbers:
  • 21,000 Model 3 - Fremont (21 days @ 1,000/day)
  • 4,000 Model S/X - Fremont (21 days @ 145/day)
  • 3,000 Model Y - Fremont (3 wks @ 1K/wk)
  • 6,000 Model 3 - Shanghai (3 wks @ 2K/wk)
So given 79K cars produced so far this quarter, then adding 34K more* cars produced in the rest of March, that's a grand total of 113K Est'd Tesla cars produced in 2020Q1.

That's also an 8% increase vs record production of ~105K vehicles in 2019Q4. Impressive achievement during the Model Y rampup in Fremont and the ongoing rampup in Shanghai.

Cheers!

*This may be slightly conservative since a recent report said Shanghai would progress from 2K/wk to 3.5K/wk for rest of March.
 
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Thirdrowtesla corrected math for the 1 millionth car shortly after: Update on this math: Chart shows deliveries, not production. According to wikipedia cumulative production is 921,046 –– so around 20,000 cars in inventory around the world that would put production at 78,539 at this point in the quarter

Twitter

Rob made a in my opinion much more detailed and reliable calculation that puts us above market expectations in Q1. The underpromise overdeliver method will work this time again and surprise many. All what we hear from GF3 points to a continued increase in Q1 too while of course inventory will need to be filled up which means production much higher than deliveries in Q1.


I'm expecting an awesome 2020 that is not at all reflected in the yesterdays SP but will again once the triple fear factor of CV & Oil & recession disappeared. As stated in my articles there has been already a recession in some market segments and industries like the German Automotive industry before the S***t hit the fan the last weeks.

Tesla as a company is very hard to understand for most but with such an outstanding product pipeline and very high demand with no end in sight and considering the strong cash position I am more confident than ever.

I did analyze years ago to what extend Tesla is a good or bad place for any kind of recession and its clearly the right place to be. At least for me :)

Since most negative news in priced in now we should see a nice bounce today.
 
The other problem would be finding a shareholder willing to sell TSLA at those prices.
Lol, NOT-a-Shareholder's did 62% of TSLA 'selling' reported via FINRA today (short-selling), and that's just within the 37% of NASDAQ volume that went through FINRA.

Naked short selling by market makers to support their proprietary trading is while-collar crime, and is stealing billions of dollars from the legitimate owners of Tesla's equity.

#SEC #DOYOURJOB
 
I expect a strong open tomorrow. But I still wouldn't be surprised to see it touch $585 or so Tues. or Wed. before recovering with some vigor. The recent news is very good but people don't always get the memo (or understand it) in a timely manner.
I think it will be a good day for all tomorrow. Dow is > +800 point pre-market. Trump floating the idea of stimulus package. Hope it sticks.
Coronavirus: Donald Trump pushes economic stimulus as disease spreads

However, keep in mind that the governments (I do mean plurals) will act to help the economy one way or the other for sure in the form of free check or tax cut and free loan to corporations. The market can just shoot up and hard without prior notice. No one knows for sure what's coming.
If you are a long term investor and still have dry powder, accumulating your favorite companies' stocks in phases may be the right thing to do.
 
I just test drove a highest trim Kona Electric a few days ago. It did have several ways in which it was better than a Model 3: ventilated seats, power sunroof, and a heads up display. However, lacking software updates, serious range (258 EPA), and any hint of power, it was hardly a competitor. Ugly screen, lots of knobs and buttons, and driver assist type stuff that didn't seem to work consistently. Also, of course, no obvious charging solution for road trips. The sales guy was very enthusiastic though. Kept telling me how it was the best of the best at various things.

On the whole it wasn't awful. I can imagine they'll sell some to Hyundai customers who want to move away from ICE cars. But there's no way an existing Tesla owner would consider a downgrade like that.

On top of the ventilated seats, sunroof, HUD...I will tell you what my KIA soul EV has over my model X. Accurate range display. The Kia tells you near exactly how much range you have left. The Tesla overestimates by. WHOPpING 35 to 45 per cent (2016 p90d). The Kia also has satellite radio...and it is often we do not have cell service, which makes streaming frustrating.

What’s the Kia lacking asides from superchargers.? Squeaks and rattles

I like driving both for various reasons.

Thanks for the objective info, unlike Car & Driver or Road & Track. I agree, the Koreans aren't Tesla's equal at this time, but they catch up quick, at least from the individual car aspect. The other moats like available fast charging and ota updates will take longer, but I bet they get there quicker than the other competition...

I just can't wait to see a picture of Gates charging his Taycan at a Walmart...
 
I just test drove a highest trim Kona Electric a few days ago. It did have several ways in which it was better than a Model 3: ventilated seats, power sunroof, and a heads up display. However, lacking software updates, serious range (258 EPA), and any hint of power, it was hardly a competitor. Ugly screen, lots of knobs and buttons, and driver assist type stuff that didn't seem to work consistently. Also, of course, no obvious charging solution for road trips. The sales guy was very enthusiastic though. Kept telling me how it was the best of the best at various things.

On the whole it wasn't awful. I can imagine they'll sell some to Hyundai customers who want to move away from ICE cars. But there's no way an existing Tesla owner would consider a downgrade like that.

A relative of mine just bought one, the 64kwh battery version. They wanted an ev with a hatchback. And a car that looks more like a normal car than a Tesla..
Overall quite a nice car actually. No comparison to model 3, but much better than eg a leaf.
 
Lol, NOT-a-Shareholder's did 62% of TSLA 'selling' reported via FINRA today (short-selling), and that's just within the 37% of NASDAQ volume that went through FINRA.

Naked short selling by market makers to support their proprietary trading is while-collar crime, and is stealing billions of dollars from the legitimate owners of Tesla's equity.

#SEC #DOYOURJOB

You have a point there that's strengthened by the fact that TSLA short-sellers have a documented history of selling low and buying high. :oops:

And that's why I wouldn't be surprised to see them take it down to $585 or so in the next couple of days. But I think a flood of new buyers would totally overwhelm them around that level which is why I think below $400 (or even $500) is pretty much out of the question. And current low oil prices do not leave big oil awash in new dollars with which to double down on their shorting activities, especially not at prices that low. Big oil is losing its clout in the modern world faster than GM is backing down from its new EV announcements. :cool:
 
REVISED 2020Q1 Production Estimate:

Here is my revised 2020Q1 estimated car production: (based on Wikipedia cumul. prod. thru 2019Q4)

(1,000,000 - 921,046) = 78,954 (or 79K cumulative production so far in 2020Q1)​

Then with 21 prod. days left in Q1 (note: Mar 31 is César Chávez Day Stat. Holiday), we expect these numbers:
  • 21,000 Model 3 - Fremont (21 days @ 1,000/day)
  • 4,000 Model S/X - Fremont (21 days @ 145/day)
  • 3,000 Model Y - Fremont (3 wks @ 1K/wk)
  • 6,000 Model 3 - Shanghai (3 wks @ 2K/wk)
So given 79K cars produced so far this quarter, then adding 34K more* cars produced in the rest of March, that's a grand total of 113K Est'd Tesla cars produced in 2020Q1.

That's also an 8% increase vs record production of ~105K vehicles in 2019Q4. Impressive achievement during the Model Y rampup in Fremont and the ongoing rampup in Shanghai.

Cheers!

*This may be slightly conservative since a recent report said Shanghai would progress from 2K/wk to 3.5K/wk for rest of March.
My numbers based on quarterly reports up to end of Q4, excluding the OG Roadster:
Production: 916,913
Deliveries: 899,998

Roadster should be ~2500 on top of that? So it puts us at 80,587 produced in Q1 so far.
tesla_sales_prod.png
 
You have a point there that's strengthened by the fact that TSLA short-sellers have a documented history of selling low and buying high. :oops:

And that's why I wouldn't be surprised to see them take it down to $585 or so in the next couple of days. But I think a flood of new buyers would totally overwhelm them around that level which is why I think below $400 (or even $500) is pretty much out of the question. And current low oil prices do not leave big oil awash in new dollars with which to double down on their shorting activities, especially not at prices that low. Big oil is losing its clout in the modern world faster than GM is backing down from its new EV announcements. :cool:

Outside of the virus, Tesla isn't a victim of the disruption, it is causing the disruption..

So why would oil prices dropping cause major problems for Tesla?
The only problem is short term demand if there is a recession, low oil prices don't generally cause a recession..

If sections of the market are over valued, then they need to be repriced...

Boil it all down, I'm not sure the virus justifies this level of Tesla price drop... short sellers coming on board and trying to push prices down is believable, we have seen this movie before and we know the ending, still it is never dull....
 
I think it will be a good day for all tomorrow. Dow is > +800 point pre-market. Trump floating the idea of stimulus package. Hope it sticks.
Coronavirus: Donald Trump pushes economic stimulus as disease spreads

Republicans already floated the idea 3 days ago:


The latest 'stimulus' talk from the White House:

White House points fingers as it plots coronavirus stimulus

"WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump is considering an economic stimulus designed to help businesses hurt by the coronavirus, a senior White House economic aide said Friday, though aides tamped down expectations about the scope of any plan."

"Some of the sectors might need some temporary assistance,” Trump senior economic adviser Larry Kudlow told Fox Business on Friday. "I look at it as targeted and timely and I think that would be the most effective response, but we don’t want to act prematurely because today’s numbers show that the U.S. economy is in very good shape."

...

White House officials said they are kicking around ways to help businesses that may been most affected by the coronavirus scare, including possible tax relief for the airline, cruise, and travel industries. They spoke on condition of anonymity because, they stressed, no decisions have been made and lots of options are being discussed.

But Kudlow and other White House officials signaled that talks were preliminary and no plans were set.


Note the "we don't actually need any stimulus, because the economy is so beautiful" messaging, which is somewhat self-defeating.

Also note the cool reception by even the Republican Senate:

Trump floats payroll tax cut, other financial relief amid coronavirus outbreak

President Donald Trump on Monday said he will be meeting with Senate and House Republicans on Tuesday to discuss “a possible tax relief measure” to provide “a timely and effective response to the coronavirus.”

“We are to be meeting with House Republicans, Mitch McConnell, and discussing a possible payroll tax cut or relief, substantial relief, very substantial relief,” Trump said at a press briefing with coronavirus task force members.

Senate GOP cool to new economic stimulus measures - CNNPolitics

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will meet with her committee chairs Monday night to talk through potential options, and the California Democrat and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer laid down a marker Sunday night for what any package should include, including paid sick leave, enhanced unemployment insurance and widespread, free coronavirus testing.

But it was clear from Senate Republicans coming out of the meeting that there is little appetite to tackle wide-scale economic stimulus at the moment and there is concern that some of the proposals that have been floated by White House officials in recent days, from the payroll tax cuts to more direct spending measures, represent potential problems for the conference in the weeks ahead.

"I think it's premature," Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, responded when asked if he could support either spending plans proposed by Democrats or tax cuts suggested by Republicans to boost the economy in the wake of the coronavirus outbreak. "I usually love tax cuts, but I think it's a little bit premature again."

One member said that there was a real discussion about the option the White House may lay out Tuesday, but Republicans in the leadership meeting were "not really excited about some of the options on the table. We would have to sort through it. We have to sort through what the implications would be."

Part of the concern deals with the economic troubles as they currently stand. Stimulative spending at a time of sharply declining demand may not have the intended effect, another GOP senator told CNN. Tax cuts or incentives, traditionally the preferred economic policy lever for Republicans to pull amid economic slow downs, may, in turn, take too long to take hold given the current market conditions.

"What I don't want to do is just borrow a bunch of money and throw it out in the street to stimulate spending," said Sen. Kevin Cramer, a North Dakota Republican.

"Maybe some tax cuts or tax deferral would be in order," Cramer said, insisting he would be open to hearing the administration's proposals. "But I'm not sure the market's looking for stimulation into the economy. The market is looking for the coronavirus to be solved."
Note a 100% lack of any mention of a key component to any new legislation: the House of Representatives, controlled by the Democratic Party, which they won in a landslide in 2018. The White House doesn't even give it a fig leaf of bipartisanship in their messaging: it's House Republicans (a minority) and Senate Republicans they are meeting, and the answer is the usual Republican mantra: a tax cut.

And the conditions of House Democrats are pretty clear:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will meet with her committee chairs Monday night to talk through potential options, and the California Democrat and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer laid down a marker Sunday night for what any package should include, including paid sick leave, enhanced unemployment insurance and widespread, free coronavirus testing.​

The Trump administration doesn't want any of that:
  • Paid sick leave, standard in every European country, is for some reason anathema to U.S. conservative mantra.
  • Unemployment insurance, standard in every European country, is socialism pure.
  • Widespread, free coronavirus testing would just expose the real infection numbers.
So I don't think these tax measures have much chance to go through the House - and any new legislation has to be introduced there first. My best guess is that Republicans want to pin this crisis on Democrats.

Good luck with that: Democrats don't have to do anything but passive-aggressively provide a few plausible excuses for why the Republican measures are not fast enough for this great crisis and that Republicans should stop playing election year politics and should start supporting common-sense measures to stop the virus, such as widespread and free virus testing, paid sick leave to keep the sick at home, and unemployment insurance for those laid off due to the coronavirus slump, ASAP.
 
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Outside of the virus, Tesla isn't a victim of the disruption, it is causing the disruption..

So why would oil prices dropping cause major problems for Tesla?
The only problem is short term demand if there is a recession, low oil prices don't generally cause a recession..

Low oil prices aren't a problem for Tesla. I was saying cheap oil defunds big oil. Money is power so it makes them weaker No longer awash in money, that means they won't be doubling down on any expensive plans to try to short TSLA into the ground. This is a good thing.

I'm not afraid of regular short-sellers who are misguided enough to think they can make a buck shorting TSLA because they have to cover as TSLA rises. But the idea of big oil shorting Tesla into oblivion with no oversight from the SEC is a pretty scary thought. In the current climate, big oil will need to tighten their belts, not funnel spare cash into shorting TSLA. All of a sudden their profit margins are looking pretty thin.
 
Rob made a in my opinion much more detailed and reliable calculation that puts us above market expectations in Q1. The underpromise overdeliver method will work this time again and surprise many. All what we hear from GF3 points to a continued increase in Q1 too while of course inventory will need to be filled up which means production much higher than deliveries in Q1.


I'm expecting an awesome 2020 that is not at all reflected in the yesterdays SP but will again once the triple fear factor of CV & Oil & recession disappeared. As stated in my articles there has been already a recession in some market segments and industries like the German Automotive industry before the S***t hit the fan the last weeks.

Tesla as a company is very hard to understand for most but with such an outstanding product pipeline and very high demand with no end in sight and considering the strong cash position I am more confident than ever.

I did analyze years ago to what extend Tesla is a good or bad place for any kind of recession and its clearly the right place to be. At least for me :)

Since most negative news in priced in now we should see a nice bounce today.

I noticed Elon didn't say when Tesla achieved its 1,000,000th car. I suspect he sandbagged and delayed the announcement by at least a couple of days if not more.
 
My numbers based on quarterly reports up to end of Q4, excluding the OG Roadster:
Production: 916,913
Deliveries: 899,998

Roadster should be ~2500 on top of that? So it puts us at 80,587 produced in Q1 so far.
View attachment 520173

I was looking at your data more closely today and was comparing it to mine, and noticed an oddity, you list 2018'Q3 production at 95,975, while the Q3 P&D report said:

EDGAR Filing Documents for 0001564590-19-036274

"In the third quarter, we achieved record production of 96,155 vehicles and record deliveries of approximately 97,000 vehicles.​

I.e. your Q3 production count is IMO off by 180 units.

Their P&D reports are usually pretty accurate, but there was a small adjustment in the recently released 10-K, where they characterized 2019 full year production as:

"During 2019, we achieved annual vehicle delivery and production records of 367,656 and 365,232 total vehicles, respectively."​

The four Q1-Q4 production reports disclosed these production figures:

Q1: 77,100
Q2: 87,048
Q3: 96,155
Q4: 104,891

2019 sum: 365,194

Note the minor downwards adjustment of 38 units in the full-year 2019 10-K.

So IMO for future reference the correct production figures are these 38 fewer units chalked up to Q4 (they might be GF3 trial production scrapped units), which makes the year of 2019:

Q1: 77,100
Q2: 87,048
Q3: 96,155
Q4: 104,853 (adj.)

2019 sum: 365,232​

BTW., what's your source of data for the 2012-2014 years? The first delivery report I found was for 2015 Q1. Did earlier quarterly reports disclose production levels?