Tesla semi is ill conceived...

[SageBrush]

Goldman Sachs Finally Admits it Defrauded Investors During the Financial Crisis

Do yourself a favor, and learn what a credit bubble is and how they get generated. For extra credit learn about derivatives. You know ... the fuel that allowed the housing bubble. And if you want to be an informed citizen, get to know how the people you vote into positions of authority intend to regulate (or not) the finance industry. E.g. whether they oppose Obama era regulations related to transparency in derivatives reporting.

 

[bak_phy]

@SageBrush You disagree with Bush Jr. being president from 2005 - 2007 ???

 

[brkaus]

Trucks folks. Not politics.

 

[SageBrush]

@SageBrush You disagree with Bush Jr. being president from 2005 - 2007 ???

No LOL
Sounds like I hit the wrong button. Fixed

 

[bak_phy]

Trucks folks. Not politics.

Normally I would agree with you 100% but I believe that the OP's post is in large part politically motivated.
None of us have any idea what kind of safety features the semi truck will have and yet he writes an entire hit piece about how Tesla cares more about dollars than safety. His later comments on the financial crisis and the causes thereof simply helps to show that he has no credibility.

 

[bak_phy]

No LOL
Sounds like I hit the wrong button. Fixed

I did wonder since you usually make a lot of sense.

 

[SageBrush]

I did wonder since you usually make a lot of sense.

That is quite the compliment -- thanks.

 

[T34ME]

75mph is the speed limit for everyone in Utah, why is an 80,000lb truck safer there?

A truck driving at 75 mph is NOT safer in Utah.

At 10mph differential you still have cars trying to get around trucks constantly even with everyone driving the speed limit.

This statement makes no sense. If everyone is driving the same speed limit, there would be no necessity to pass. If trucks are driving their speed limit, which is 10 mph less than the auto speed limit in California, then trucks should stay in the right lane and all autos could pass safely om the left. Too often trucks are driving in lanes other than the right lane and this causes congestion and increased hazard, at least on California freeways.

The bottom line is that increased speeds are statistically responsible for for more vehicular accidents and fatalities, in both autos and trucks. Here is a 2013 report on speed limit increases and accident rates.

In part it reports:

CHANGES IN NATIONAL SPEED LIMIT LAWS

In 1974, a National Maximum Speed Limit (NMSL), designed chiefly to conserve fuel, took effect, establishing a national maximum speed limit of 55 mph.

Congress relaxed the law in 1987, allowing states to set speed limits of up to 65 mph on interstate roads in areas with fewer than 50,000 people ("rural interstates").

In 1995, Congress repealed the NMSL, allowing states to set their own speed limits (or none at all) on their roads. Most states have since increased the speed limits on some or all of their roads

STUDIES OF THE IMPACT OF INCREASED SPEED LIMITS ON ACCIDENT RATES

Study Conclusions

In the years following both changes in the law, researchers conducted numerous studies on the relationship between higher speed limits and accident rates. The studies' results varied, depending, in part, on the analytical methods used and limits on the type of data available. (Most of

the studies looked only at accidents in which a fatality occurred, since only these must be reported to the federal Fatality Analysis Reporting System.)

For example, according to a 2005 presentation by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), five studies conducted on the effects of the 1987 law allowing states to raise speed limits to 65 mph on rural interstates variously found:

1. a 15% increase in fatalities on rural interstates,

2. a 22% increase in fatal crashes on rural interstates,

3. a 19% increase in fatalities on rural interstates relative to other roads,

4. no increase in fatality rates on rural interstates (and a 12% decrease in fatality rates on rural interstates where the 55 mph limit was retained), and

5. in states that raised speed limits to 65 mph, a 3% to 5% decrease in statewide fatality rates.

Similarly, three studies of the effects of the full repeal of NMSL in 1995 variously found a:

1. 15% increase in fatalities and 17% increase in fatality rates on interstates with increased speed limits;

2. 35% increase in fatalities in states with 70 mph speed limits and 38% increase in fatalities in states with 75 mph speed limits; and

3. 6% increase in fatalities and 15% increase in injuries on interstates, and 2% decrease in fatalities and 3% increase in injuries on non-interstates.

A fourth study found that raising speed limits insignificantly increased fatalities and significantly reduced injuries. We have attached the IIHS presentation.

NCHRP Study​

 

[SageBrush]

I believe that the OP's post is in large part politically motivated.

I do not question OP's motivations, but his rationale for why Tesla should implement his suggestions for free is ... well .... ridiculous.

 

[Buook]

For example, according to a 2005 presentation by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), five studies conducted on the effects of the 1987 law allowing states to raise speed limits to 65 mph on rural interstates variously found:

1. a 15% increase in fatalities on rural interstates,

2. a 22% increase in fatal crashes on rural interstates,

3. a 19% increase in fatalities on rural interstates relative to other roads,

4. no increase in fatality rates on rural interstates (and a 12% decrease in fatality rates on rural interstates where the 55 mph limit was retained), and

5. in states that raised speed limits to 65 mph, a 3% to 5% decrease in statewide fatality rates.

Similarly, three studies of the effects of the full repeal of NMSL in 1995 variously found a:

1. 15% increase in fatalities and 17% increase in fatality rates on interstates with increased speed limits;

2. 35% increase in fatalities in states with 70 mph speed limits and 38% increase in fatalities in states with 75 mph speed limits; and

3. 6% increase in fatalities and 15% increase in injuries on interstates, and 2% decrease in fatalities and 3% increase in injuries on non-interstates.

A fourth study found that raising speed limits insignificantly increased fatalities and significantly reduced injuries. We have attached the IIHS presentation.

NCHRP Study​

^Biased Study..IIHS is just a bunch of insurance companies who want to lower the number of times they have to pay out of pocket. There is significant unbiased research that proves increased highways speedlimits do not increase the number of accidents. Not to mention, there are studies that show decreasing the speedlimit on a highway does not decrease the average speed of traffic, and only increases speed differential. People travel as fast as they feel comfortable.

Besides, it is common knowledge that speed doesn't kill, relative speed/difference in speed to other moving objects is what causes accidents.

 

[T34ME]

Now, I run in 12th gear at 57 mph in California and hold up traffic on the freeway like all the other trucks. Every few weeks, a four-wheeler gets angry with me holding up traffic and teaches me a lesson with a brake check off my front bumper.

I applaud and thank you for driving the truck speed limit in California. I do not condone the actions of a four-wheeler endangering a truck and the driver any more than I condone a truck driver coming up to my rear when I am driving 65 mph in the right lane, trying to stay out of the way of the idiots who are driving >75mph in the other lanes. I have had these truck drivers come up behind me in the right lane going >70 mph and then sound their air horn to try to intimidate me or pulling out and passing me and then giving me a brake check 3 feet off my front bumper. No, you wil not hold up traffic if you drive 55 mph in the right lane. If you drive 55 mph in anything other than the right lane, yes, you will hold up traffic.

Look Jack, you have a tough job and as a truck driver you have more cajones than I have. I respect you and what you do for our economy. I think we can all coexist peacefully and safely if we all follow the speed limit for our particular vehicle and we show concern and respect for our fellow drivers whatever they are driving. That's what Obama would want. And if you ever drive a Tesla Semi, you won't have to grind gears going 57 mph in 12th gear.

 

[SageBrush]

IIHS is just a bunch of insurance companies who want to lower the number of times they have to pay out of pocket.

Not exactly ... the IIHS wants to price risk accurately. Why does that negate their findings ?

Besides, it is common knowledge that speed doesn't kill,

Would it surprise you to learn that as speed increases, your time to respond successfully shortens ?
That braking distance increases ?
That drivers around you have less time to process your actions ?

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I just read 92 comments and what is missing is the comment that "Broken Windshields are important". Elon made a big point that his Armor Glass would make a big diff to economics from downtime and repair cost. That "important" sales pitch has gone un-commented - as if Elons position was not important. Did he just design something that no trucker cares about?

on a side note - the truckers in this thread that have described their duties - balancing loads, wind at night on black ice, etc - have given me an insight as to how professional many drivers are. I had no idea what duties they did in a normal day. I thought they just steered down the white line. Boy, this thread has opened my eyes. Thank You truckers for educating this car driver toward your business.

 

[Buook]

Not exactly ... the IIHS wants to price risk accurately. Why does that negate their findings ?


Would it surprise you to learn that as speed increases, your time to respond successfully shortens ?
That braking distance increases ?
That drivers around you have less time to process your actions ?

Doesn't negate findings, it shows how they are going to PRESENT the information they find (and whether or not they present all of it).

Rate of speed has no correlation with response time, think about that for a second.

Braking distance increases, true.

Less time to process actions? False. This would only be true if you are talking about speed differential.

 

[brucet999]

If everyone is driving the same speed limit, there would be no necessity to pass. If trucks are driving their speed limit, which is 10 mph less than the auto speed limit in California, then trucks should stay in the right lane and all autos could pass safely om the left. Too often trucks are driving in lanes other than the right lane and this causes congestion and increased hazard, at least on California freeways.

This is one situation where Electric trucks would be safer, since they would be able to quickly accelerate to 65mph or more while overtaking a slower truck, avoiding the hazard of one truck blocking the fast lane while passing another with only a 1 or 2 mph speed advantage.

 

[jr4488]

As a trucker myself you should've been parked in those conditions. Saving a jack-knife isn't something to be proud of. It shows overconfidence and lack of planning.

Point well taken. It’s actually worse than you think because I also throw chains rather than park. I did it four times last winter.

I carry time sensitive, high value loads and the brokers expect me to run if the roads are open. Some trucking companies (like Fedex) require drivers to throw chains.

If you have the luxury of parking in bad weather, you are one of the lucky ones...

Jack

 

[SageBrush]

I just read 92 comments and what is missing is the comment that "Broken Windshields are important". Elon made a big point that his Armor Glass would make a big diff to economics from downtime and repair cost. That "important" sales pitch has gone un-commented - as if Elons position was not important. Did he just design something that no trucker cares about?

It certainly is not EV specific. Any truck manufacturer can presumably do the same so if Tesla caught on to something others missed, they are sure to copy it soon enough.

 

[brucet999]

I applaud and thank you for driving the truck speed limit in California. I do not condone the actions of a four-wheeler endangering a truck and the driver any more than I condone a truck driver coming up to my rear when I am driving 65 mph in the right lane….

You may want to cut the truck drivers a little slack there. If he has to slow down for you, he will lose rpms, possibly have to downshift to keep enough torque, maybe lose momentum coming to the start of an uphill grade. It isn't easy driving a big vehicle with comparatively under-powered engine for its mass vs the high power-to-weight ratio of a passenger vehicle.

 

[Kipernicus]

I applaud and thank you for driving the truck speed limit in California. I do not condone the actions of a four-wheeler endangering a truck and the driver any more than I condone a truck driver coming up to my rear when I am driving 65 mph in the right lane, trying to stay out of the way of the idiots who are driving >75mph in the other lanes. I have had these truck drivers come up behind me in the right lane going >70 mph and then sound their air horn to try to intimidate me or pulling out and passing me and then giving me a brake check 3 feet off my front bumper. No, you wil not hold up traffic if you drive 55 mph in the right lane. If you drive 55 mph in anything other than the right lane, yes, you will hold up traffic.

Look Jack, you have a tough job and as a truck driver you have more cajones than I have. I respect you and what you do for our economy. I think we can all coexist peacefully and safely if we all follow the speed limit for our particular vehicle and we show concern and respect for our fellow drivers whatever they are driving. That's what Obama would want. And if you ever drive a Tesla Semi, you won't have to grind gears going 57 mph in 12th gear.

I think that the "holding up traffic" is at least partially due to car drivers who just park themselves in the left lane and don't move to the right. They think they are passing all the trucks quick enough but don't realize that others are super impatient and want to pass the trucks and them.

Traffic needs to flow around the trucks a little more fluidly while still giving them space. Cars that cut off trucks and don't give them enough space are a real hazard. Getting out of their way might be prudent too (regardless of how wrong the truck is to intimidate). I wonder if car autopilot could take that into consideration.


Also, what is a "headache rack"?

 

[Brando]

I watched the introduction of the Tesla semi yesterday with great disappointment. Elon is getting warped information from the mega-carrier trucking companies ( like J.B. Hunt) and his product manager (from Freightliner). It is worth noting that trucking companies with 20 or fewer trucks comprise over 97% of the 3.5 million semis on the road in the United States.

As an example, 16% of the J.B. Hunt semis were put out of service for safety violations after random roadside inspections by the DOT last year. Even worse, 31 J.B. Hunt drivers were killed while behind the wheel of J.B. Hunt trucks in the last 24 months.

The trucking industry needs a safety revolution. Tesla should lead with safety, not electrification. It's what the silent 97% of the market wants. ...

Safety was Elon's stated 1st priority with Model S/X. I have no reason to think that priority has changed.

LTL shippers account for around 13.6 percent of America's trucking sector. Estimates of 15.5 million trucks operate in the U.S.. Of this figure 2 million are tractor trailers. It is an estimated over 3.5 million truck drivers in the U.S. Of that one in nine are independent, a majority of which are owner operators.Feb 23, 2017

Got the above from internet search - one phrase to try is;
teamster truck driver pay scale

"As of 2013, UPS union delivery drivers usually start at $14 per hour, according to Truck-driver-salary.org, or $29,120 annually. Costco union tractor-trailer truck drivers earned hourly wages of $22.87, according to the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, or $47,570 per year."

PS - never knew of a Moose or Deer tall enough to kill Semi-Truck driver, for example

It is easy enough to TRY and verify stated facts.
And yes, I only [think] know what I read (unless I have actual experience).
Reminds me of a Mark Twain saying ;
If you don't read newspapers you are uninformed.
If you do read newspapers you are misinformed.

If you don't question, you are easily mis lead.