Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[SidetrackedSue]

I should of read the notes before installing the new software update. What's the point of autosteer if you have to have both hands on the wheel at all times? Isn't that the same as... regular driving?

Kind of ruined autosteer for me. I'd rather the old way.

First, Autosteer is a beta product. Most people expect some changes to a beta product.

Second, Autosteer always required torque on the wheel to indicate the driver was paying attention. The update changes nothing in how the feature is supposed to be used. The point of autosteer is to keep your car within the lines of the lane. It will not steer around anything that appears suddenly in your lane, that is why you need to pay attention, prepared to steer around a problem.

Third, the point of autosteer is that you can have a relaxed arm providing torque and, with TACC, the car will maintain speed as well. At the end of a long highway drive, your shoulders and hips will be more relaxed because you haven't had your muscles tense constantly adjusting the steering wheel and apply pressure to the go-pedal.

 

[zoomer0056]

If I have to bring my car in, then it's a recall.

Yes. An auto recall these days also includes OTA software updates that correct things.

 

[DBV1]

Right? When my computer or phone does an update, do they call it a "Recall"? If I have to bring my car in, then it's a recall.

That is true. Get so many Apple updates and you are right…. Are those a recall too.

I honestly don’t know how FSD can be dangerous anymore. As soon, as you look away for a couple secs you get the warning. Sad that people took advantage of FSD and abused it (minority) and now others must pay.

 

[69KWH]

FSD is actually more dangerous now.

• If looking out the window or at your mirrors is enough to trigger the alert
• Holding the steering wheel isn't enough to make the alert go away
• Looking at your screen to read the alert wastes more time and leads to an eventual strike

Drivers might start jerking the steering wheel in attempt to dismiss the alert and end up in a ditch or causing a sideswipe or head on collision as soon as the autosteer is disengaged. The only difference is Tesla can say "the driver was in control of the vehicle prior to the crash."

 

[Dewg]

No, your phone (Android / Apple) updates are not recalls. Recalls are forced, usually by a regulatory body, or voluntary from the MFG due to pressure from the regulatory body. NHTSA may tell Tesla we're going to issue a forced recall if you don't do something, and Tesla does it on their own. Similar to someone resigning before being fired.

 

[zoomer0056]

That is true. Get so many Apple updates and you are right…. Are those a recall too.

I honestly don’t know how FSD can be dangerous anymore. As soon, as you look away for a couple secs you get the warning. Sad that people took advantage of FSD and abused it (minority) and now others must pay.

Tesla now has millions of FSD/Autopilot miles (just guessing it's a large amount). However, these features have never been limit by the least able (the stupid, the Darwin Award holders, cheaters and those that won't read manuals) driver. It's been talked about here that anyone should be able to use these features without training. Well, these features must be dummied down before they get smarter than the dumbest of us. This recall is one dummied down step forward. What did the kid say in that Bruce Willis movie ... I see stupid people.

 

[Dewg]

FSD is actually more dangerous now.

• If looking out the window or at your mirrors is enough to trigger the alert
• Holding the steering wheel isn't enough to make the alert go away
• Looking at your screen to read the alert wastes more time and leads to an eventual strike

Drivers might start jerking the steering wheel in attempt to dismiss the alert and end up in a ditch or causing a sideswipe or head on collision as soon as the autosteer is disengaged. The only difference is Tesla can say "the driver was in control of the vehicle prior to the crash."

You can look away from the road for a few seconds before the system will bring up a "Pay Attention" alert (my testing was 5-7 seconds). That is more than enough time to gain whatever information you need. It only takes at most a second of looking at your screen to gather whatever information is available - speed, speed limit, is AP/FSD Beta engaged, etc. At most 2 seconds of looking at your mirrors to gather information on what cars are around you.

There is no reason to get a "pay attention" or strike unless you are actively not paying attention, like playing with your phone or fiddling with music. Even environmental controls are easy to control via voice or with quick keys you can assign to the taskbar.

 

[zoomer0056]

FSD is actually more dangerous now.

• If looking out the window or at your mirrors is enough to trigger the alert
• Holding the steering wheel isn't enough to make the alert go away
• Looking at your screen to read the alert wastes more time and leads to an eventual strike

Drivers might start jerking the steering wheel in attempt to dismiss the alert and end up in a ditch or causing a sideswipe or head on collision as soon as the autosteer is disengaged. The only difference is Tesla can say "the driver was in control of the vehicle prior to the crash."

You're kidding right? You should not be using FSD/Autopilot because you definitely don't know how to.

 

[zroger73]

Recalls that require only software updates happen regularly in the automotive industry, but they don't get the attention that Teslas do.

A few years ago, three-quarters of a million Hondas were recalled for a software update to fix an issue that could cause the rearview camera not to display or the turn signals or wipers to malfunction. The only difference is that because these vehicles lack over-the-air update capability, the update has to be installed by a dealer.

Last year, Ford recalled a similar number of vehicles for a software update to address an issue where trailer brakes might not activate.

There are plenty more examples.

 

[Dewg]

Recalls that require only software updates happen regularly in the automotive industry, but they don't get the attention that Teslas do.

A few years ago, three-quarters of a million Hondas were recalled for a software update to fix an issue that could cause the rearview camera not to display or the turn signals or wipers to malfunction. The only difference is that because these vehicles lack over-the-air update capability, the update has to be installed by a dealer.

Last year, Ford recalled a similar number of vehicles for a software update to address an issue where trailer brakes might not activate.

There are plenty more examples.

My BMW X3 just got a recall letter that could potentially lead to a fire. Just had to take it into a dealer to have the part replaced at no charge. I didn't see tons of headlines about BMWs being recalled due to being fiery death traps. Not click-baity enough I guess.

 

[69KWH]

You're kidding right? You should not be using FSD/Autopilot because you definitely don't know how to.

2010, Steve Jobs, yOuR HoLDiNg iT wRoNg
2023, TSLA Fanbois, yOuR dRiViNg iT wRoNg

 

[Supcom]

FSD is actually more dangerous now.

• If looking out the window or at your mirrors is enough to trigger the alert
• Holding the steering wheel isn't enough to make the alert go away
• Looking at your screen to read the alert wastes more time and leads to an eventual strike

Drivers might start jerking the steering wheel in attempt to dismiss the alert and end up in a ditch or causing a sideswipe or head on collision as soon as the autosteer is disengaged. The only difference is Tesla can say "the driver was in control of the vehicle prior to the crash."

FSD is actually unchanged as far as I can tell with the latest version except that the wheel nnag is higher up on the display, making it easier to see.

Even autopilot is basically unchanged, so far as I can tell.

Posts like this are just FUD.

 

[snubbers]

MY LR here, delivered 15th Dec with factory 2023.38.200.1 that has single pull AP option, the recall level AP and I already had a strike for zero reason.

Its the crazy strict initial AP engagement first few seconds I am struggling with, 2 days of it working OK, then suddenly it's struggling again. any glance away in those first few seconds (like checking speed, map, mirrors) has it nagging..

I can't help think Tesla are being stupidly picked on here.. Our other car is an ID.3 with Travel Assist, that has attention monitoring and a capacitive wheel, I can drive 100-150 miles just on AP in that without a single nag other than 'put your hands on the wheel' every 12 seconds, but as it's capacitive, just a gently touch on the wheel and it's registered, so find it very relaxing.. I have to literally look away for 20-30 seconds before it simply tells you to pay attention and to get the equivalent of a strike is literally impossible unless you spend 60 seconds deliberately not holding the wheel, and it only locks you out for the rest of that drive.. no 'jail', no 'suspension', no nag after subsequent journeys.. it's incredibly lapse.. Although dare I say it actually works better in city streets and can be used more often, however it's radar is a bit short sighted, so stopping is often late/abrupt.. Tesla AP is very smooth and looks much further ahead but can't be used half as much in city streets (UK).

Might try covering the camera if I keep getting attention nags, I'll have to get the wife to look at the screen when I engage and tell me if it's hands on nag or attention.. the idiocy of having a nag that if you read it elongates the reason for the nag...

 

[Tha_Ape]

Last year, Ford recalled a similar number of vehicles for a software update to address an issue where trailer brakes might not activate.

Looks like Ford is about to have a physical recall of MMEs. https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...replacement-powertrain-software-update.32557/

Sounds like they're finally fixing an issue that's plagued owners, especially of the high performance GT and GTPEs.

Their High Voltage Battery Junction Boxes could overheat and fail, disabling the vehicle. Ford DID do an OTA, but it was more of a bandaid than a true fix. It at least prevented cars from being stuck on the side of the road and let them proceed in limp mode.

I still think they're going to have the 5-sec of full power limit, but at least it will be more reliable.

 

[Jedisparky]

"The definition of a recall relates to the type of correction needed, not the method of delivery."

Whatever. That's my point, the definition needs to change.

 

[MP3Mike]

Whatever. That's my point, the definition needs to change.

Why? A recall is a safety related fix that needs to be performed on a given vehicle. It says nothing about how the fix needs to be performed.

 

[zoomer0056]

Why? A recall is a safety related fix that needs to be performed on a given vehicle. It says nothing about how the fix needs to be performed.

Yup, from NHTSA.gov:

 

[Tezla1]

The new Autopilot update sucks

I had several nags on my usual 40 mile drive and after 6-7 nags, it disabled autopilot for rest of drive - ridiculous and unsafe!

The time it gives me to respond to the nag is ridiculous- just a few seconds , I’m driving 80 mph around a curve and I can’t push the steering wheel obviously— or it will crash , and bam - it turns red

Another time, I see the nag and touch my wheel again to provide torque , but since it’s around a curve , my torque goes unnoticed and I get strike again and no more AP for rest of drive, 25 miles left all highway in traffic


this sucks so bad - I do not think this makes AP safer at all

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The new Autopilot update sucks

I had several nags on my usual 40 mile drive and after 6-7 nags, it disabled autopilot for rest of drive - ridiculous and unsafe!

The time it gives me to respond to the nag is ridiculous- just a few seconds , I’m driving 80 mph around a curve and I can’t push the steering wheel obviously— or it will crash , and bam - it turns red

Another time, I see the nag and touch my wheel again to provide torque , but since it’s around a curve , my torque goes unnoticed and I get strike again and no more AP for rest of drive, 25 miles left all highway in traffic


this sucks so bad - I do not think this makes AP safer at all

Try keeping both hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, with head up and pointed forward. This is the way. Occasional extremely gentle tug in opposite direction from the current applied slight torque may occasionally be needed.

The torque-sensing requirement from Tesla is garbage, and a terrible implementation, but once you are accustomed to it, it is very tolerable and quite easy to work with.

The attention monitoring is now really quite good. If you pay attention it mostly leaves you alone.

If it does not work this way, you either have no in-car cabin camera (sounds terrible but who knows the actual situation) or you have defective hardware.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

MY LR here, delivered 15th Dec with factory 2023.38.200.1 that has single pull AP option, the recall level AP and I already had a strike for zero reason.

Its the crazy strict initial AP engagement first few seconds I am struggling with, 2 days of it working OK, then suddenly it's struggling again. any glance away in those first few seconds (like checking speed, map, mirrors) has it nagging..

I can't help think Tesla are being stupidly picked on here.. Our other car is an ID.3 with Travel Assist, that has attention monitoring and a capacitive wheel, I can drive 100-150 miles just on AP in that without a single nag other than 'put your hands on the wheel' every 12 seconds, but as it's capacitive, just a gently touch on the wheel and it's registered, so find it very relaxing..

The difference is that AP (now) and FSDb (should you ever get it) expect your hands on the wheel at ALL times. Those of us with FSDb have had this situation for months now so for those of us who want to keep their hands on the wheel (because they don't trust the stupid car), we've mastered the technique and don't expect much change from this download.

Try keeping one hand on the wheel with your thumb near the scroll wheel. Just flick the wheel when you see the warning.

I don't know for sure that will work because I don't have the new update (I'm experimenting to see if it will be downloaded to me over LTE since I don't have wifi here). But it should since tesla is asking if your hands are on the wheel. This proves they are.

I'm one who keeps eyes ahead while in 'auto' mode and hands on the wheel so haven't had issues with the FSDb nags now that I've learned, and this is key, that tesla once again used language incorrectly and doesn't want pressure on the wheel, it wants torque. So for the first couple of years I had the car, the nags were bad for me because I had the wheel, at 9 & 3 in a death grip to provide enough pressure or pushing hard against the wheel to provide pressure. And with my height, seat position and my hand at 3, my arm blocked the initial flashing blue and it was the audio warning that would let me know I wasn't applying 'pressure' as tesla thinks the word means. (Thankfully, I learned what the car actually was expecting through guidance from this forum.)

I envy you the car with the capacitive steering wheel. And I'm sorry you bought a tesla as I suspect you'll be disappointed with the experience. It will certainly be a challenge as you separate what you thought you bought based on marketing, from what you actually bought. Good luck!