Tesla Pickup Truck

[Electric700]

...Of course Tesla can't build such a monstrosity, but they could partner with one of the usual companies.

They could build one, but now's not the right time with their focus being on the Tesla Model X launch and upcoming Model 3. After those launches, a Tesla 100% electric truck would be really great.

 

[dsm363]

A Ford F-150 competitor with a 200 mile range at least would be compelling. Many people use this truck simply to commute to work anyway.

 

[nursebee]

I would love El Camino truck but don't see it competing well.
Truck needs to be similar enough to attract attention, different enough to distiguish

 

[Red Sage]

Building a direct competitor, specifically to the Ford F-150, might be as disastrous as launching a direct analog to the Toyota Camry. It is better to go a bit more high end, while production capacity is limited. That's why the Model ≡ will be priced to compete with Lexus ES/IS. Once Tesla Motors releases a pickup truck, it is bound to be incredibly popular. But so there may be a hope of it not being on backorder with a two-year waiting list, perhaps the first iteration should instead tackle the F-450 Supercrew Dually market. I say this because a pickup line, even if sold only in North America, could easily warrant a Gigafactory and manufacturing facility all to itself. Better to wait until that expanded capacity were available before going down market to F-150 through F-350, Ranger, or Ranchero variants from Tesla.

 

[dsm363]

Building a direct competitor, specifically to the Ford F-150, might be as disastrous as launching a direct analog to the Toyota Camry. It is better to go a bit more high end, while production capacity is limited. That's why the Model ≡ will be priced to compete with Lexus ES/IS. Once Tesla Motors releases a pickup truck, it is bound to be incredibly popular. But so there may be a hope of it not being on backorder with a two-year waiting list, perhaps the first iteration should instead tackle the F-450 Supercrew Dually market. I say this because a pickup line, even if sold only in North America, could easily warrant a Gigafactory and manufacturing facility all to itself. Better to wait until that expanded capacity were available before going down market to F-150 through F-350, Ranger, or Ranchero variants from Tesla.

Almost no one needs the size of a F-450 other than construction workers. Many many people buy the F-150 as a commuter car and the occasional trip to Home Depot. They likely wouldn't even attempt such a car anyway until the Model 3 (Tesla officially calls the car the Model 3) is well under way.

 

[AudubonB]

Bonnie - anyone spending time in horse country or RV country would see how popular F-450s through F-650s are. Certainly, overall numbers are dwarfed not only by the F-150 class, but also the F-250s & F-350s; regardless, these largest of non-CDL sizes most definitely are not relegated only to construction (and, more precisely, to utility-crew type) uses.

A medium-heavy-truck friend of mine has made this same argument to me: that Tesla should start with the Class 6 truck market and then move down. Me...I want mine, now, and I think any number of excellent arguments can be made for the entire F-150<-------->F-650 line, but I also think the strongest argument for waiting is to let battery manufacturing capacity to come on simultaneously.

 

[dsm363]

That's fair. I guess it depends on what market Tesla wants to address and how many trucks they would be looking to sell. If they only wanted to sell a few thousand a year and go after more of the business purchase (construction or people who purchase larger trucks for work or serious hauling capability) then the F450+ market would be useful. If they are looking to offset as much gas use as possible and go after a bigger market then the F150-F350 sized truck would make more sense. Either way they'd create a truck with amazing torque and hauling capability and then range would be the major issue.

 

[Red Sage]

Last year, someone at Teslarati wrote a detailed article pointing out all the bare minimum requirements that a Tesla pickup truck would have to meet to be successful. It was a very well written, thoughtfully considered, wisely compiled list. I disagreed with almost every word, not because it was wrong, but because it failed to recognize the magnitude of achievement that an electric truck must aspire toward in order to impress REAL 'truck guys'.

The F-150 is the best selling of the F-Series vehicles. But it shares most of its body panels with F-250 through F-550. The suspension, bed, wheel wells may be different, but the general body style is the same.

A Class IV towing capable Tesla pickup truck would simply shut up potential Naysayers with the first volley across the bow. Tesla Model P dual monitor AWD crew cab dually with 220 kWh battery pack. All the torque and range, and GVWR, and GVTR you could possibly want... And you never have to buy gasoline or diesel ever again.

What's not to like?

 

[tga]

What's not to like?

Not much, other than the price of that 220 kWh pack. :wink:

 

[dsm363]

Not much, other than the price of that 220 kWh pack. :wink:

That's the issue. Sure you could build a F-550 sized truck but how much would the battery pack cost to move it at least 200 miles? Unless you had fleet owners lined up to buy them you're probably better off finding a truck that appeals to the masses and that's the F-150 to F-350.

 

[Red Sage]

I figure a prototype of a Tesla Model P would appear in 2020. It would be launched in 2022. Plenty of time to get Gigafactory #3 online with battery cells at least twice the energy density of a 2012 release, and at only 33% the cost per each due to volume. Methinks a full sized crew cab dual motor AWD dually pickup truck equipped with a 220 kWh battery pack would run around $60,000 by then. With gasoline and diesel well over 'Six Bucks a Gallon, Please Pay Before You Pump!' levels (thanks to Gulf War III), a Supercharger enabled pickup truck would be just the proper ride to roll here at home. The 170 kWh version would probably be around $40,000 -- but would only have Class II towing capability by default.

 

[djplong]

Am I the only one thinking that a small portable generator would be a perfect mate for the Tesla Truck? I mean, they're small, could easily fit in the bed and are powerful enough to keep the lights on in an average home. I've seen these for well under $1000. It seems to me that people who would STILL have range anxiety (maybe because they're towing something to a site) would be able to fire one of these up - assuming there's no destination charging available at the site - and solve that problem. ...and cheaply too.

 

[constraint]

The Model S works today because of the performance and coolness factor. People are willing to pay the price premium the MS because for many those things are more important then cost. When you start getting into commercial loads a battery EV just fails on so many levels. Yes with a F450 based EV you could tow a 20,000 lbs 40 foot RV 5th wheel up the Colorado mountains, but how big would the battery pack need to be to go 200 miles in range loaded like that? What is the cost of that battery? If i only tow that load 5 times a year do i really want to spend an additional $40,000 for capacity i only use on occasion?

If Tesla can come up with a good design I would recommend them sticking to the F150 size as that market is willing to pay premium and not hard lined on TCO. When you start talking the class 3+ vehicles, those vehicles are much more likely to be pulling 10,000 lbs plus loads and/or longer distances which requires much larger/expensive packs. For the commercial market you really have to focus on the dedicated routes like the mail carrier, class 8 garbage trucks or local delivery vehicles. If you have a stable route and size your batteries appropriately, you can make efficient use out of the battery for every day.

- - - Updated - - -

Am I the only one thinking that a small portable generator would be a perfect mate for the Tesla Truck? I mean, they're small, could easily fit in the bed and are powerful enough to keep the lights on in an average home. I've seen these for well under $1000. It seems to me that people who would STILL have range anxiety (maybe because they're towing something to a site) would be able to fire one of these up - assuming there's no destination charging available at the site - and solve that problem. ...and cheaply too.

It is defiantly an option (say $7,000 option). Question comes down to how do you size the generator as you most certainly would want to size it to go 80 down the freeway, but is that loaded or empty weight? If you only use the generator a few times, is it really worth the added weight (reduced hauling, reduced efficiency). Via has been working on such an option for years, but their trucks are something like $80,000 for a very small 23 kwh battery pack.

 

[AudubonB]

Am I the only one thinking that a small portable generator would be a perfect mate for the Tesla Truck? I mean, they're small, could easily fit in the bed and are powerful enough to keep the lights on in an average home. I've seen these for well under $1000. It seems to me that people who would STILL have range anxiety (maybe because they're towing something to a site) would be able to fire one of these up - assuming there's no destination charging available at the site - and solve that problem. ...and cheaply too.

No. You effectively never could justify such on the combined metrics of price, used-up cargo volume, or amperage output. Or gas/diesel storage on-board...

And to get a 240V/30Amp genset.....the weight, volume, AND cost makes for even more horrific a set of parameters.

 

[CSFTN]

Am I the only one thinking that a small portable generator would be a perfect mate for the Tesla Truck? I mean, they're small, could easily fit in the bed and are powerful enough to keep the lights on in an average home. I've seen these for well under $1000. It seems to me that people who would STILL have range anxiety (maybe because they're towing something to a site) would be able to fire one of these up - assuming there's no destination charging available at the site - and solve that problem. ...and cheaply too.

What you're suggesting, in BMW I-land, is called a REX. Go look at an i3 and you will see the volume it requires. I have no idea it's power output.
I think it's fundamentally a poor choice, as per the other comments. I would think this might be a circumstance where a fuel cell actually makes sense.

 

[Red Sage]

Am I the only one thinking that a small portable generator would be a perfect mate for the Tesla Truck?

You may want to take a look at the Silverado conversions made by Via Motors. They keep the V6 motor, but it is used as a generator to keep the ~24 kWh battery pack topped off. Small, portable generators don't put out the proper, grounded voltage that a Tesla product requires. I'm sure people would buy them anyway, but it would be a waste. You'd have to use one of the BIG diesel generators.

When you start getting into commercial loads a battery EV just fails on so many levels. Yes with a F450 based EV you could tow a 20,000 lbs 40 foot RV 5th wheel up the Colorado mountains, but how big would the battery pack need to be to go 200 miles in range loaded like that?

I don't believe an EV fails in heavy applications at all. The nation moves goods coast-to-coast on trains that have diesel motors attached to electric motors. It is the smooth, effortless delivery of torque from electric motors that drives such locomotives. Electric vehicles move heavy loads in other applications as well: in/at/around seaports, airports, and warehouses all over the place.

If you presume that 10% of a 220 kWh battery pack is used for battery protection, and that someone typically charges to only 90% of what remains... Then, yes, that would come to about 180 kWh remaining.

If we figure efficiency at around 600 Wh per mile, while towing, you can go 300 miles using 180 kWh. For comparison, the Toyota Prius uses something like 674 Wh per mile in energy equivalent. Even if you up the ante to 900 Wh per mile, you still have a 200 mile range. More than enough to bridge Superchargers.

What is the cost of that battery?

I don't believe Tesla Motors is interested in selling battery packs. They want to sell complete vehicles. With that in mind, JB Straubel has said the batteries represent about 25% of the vehicle cost. So, the battery pack in a $60,000 vehicle would cost around $15,000 to fabricate. For this to be a 220 kWh battery pack, Tesla's cost would have to be around $68 per kWh. At 170 kWh it would be $88 per kWh. I expect Tesla Motors to have their costs in that range by 2022.

If i only tow that load 5 times a year do i really want to spend an additional $40,000 for capacity i only use on occasion?

Luckily, by the time Tesla Motors offers a pickup truck, there will be no such premium applied for comparable electric drive vehicles. However, I would advise someone who only needed to tow in the 15,000+ range five times or less per year to rent instead of buying.

If Tesla can come up with a good design I would recommend them sticking to the F150 size as that market is willing to pay premium and not hard lined on TCO.

The best thing about the F-Series design is that it is so modular. You can literally pick and choose from the parts bin as you see fit. But Tesla Motors has no need to match or surpass that flexibility. All they need do is match the most capable configurations and then exceed their abilities to make a strong first impression.

In my estimation, that is Crew Cab, with longbed, shortbed, and dually options only. So, only four door versions. No two door or half-door suicide variants. No need to set up for campers, bobtails, flatbeds, dumptrucks, tow trucks, or equipment carriers. Thus, it would be of purely unibody construction -- no detached bed -- no full box I-beam chassis layout. Fully independent suspension is a must, so no live axle or leaf springs either.

When you start talking the class 3+ vehicles, those vehicles are much more likely to be pulling 10,000 lbs plus loads and/or longer distances which requires much larger/expensive packs.

Torque is king in hauling and towing. Electric vehicles are the kings of torque. There is no need to sideline the very best aspect of using an electric pickup truck. The Tesla Model S P85D has shown that despite its two-and-a-half ton heft, it has plenty of get up and get gone. Once a pickup truck can be built at about the same weight, or no more than 500 lbs heavier, while carrying at least twice the storage capacity at 170 kWh or more, moving another 10,000 or 15,000 lbs will be child's play.

For the commercial market you really have to focus on the dedicated routes like the mail carrier, class 8 garbage trucks or local delivery vehicles. If you have a stable route and size your batteries appropriately, you can make efficient use out of the battery for every day.

There are plenty of heavy equipment companies that are already pursuing this strategy. It works fine for municipal vehicles, local delivery routes, and operation at private campuses, or government facilities. It is not appropriate for sales to individuals for general use. The compromises (and prejudices) that make perfect sense for institutions that strive to reduce maintenance and fuel costs while expanding their fleets must be left behind when selling to the public.

 

[llstringfield@at]

Diesel trains are really diesel generators that power electric motors to the wheels.
I assume a truck would do well.
Problem is Working trucks are on the go all day long.
Personal pickup owners are mostly cowboy types that like big sound and gas burning. (I said mostly)
I have a pickup that I do not use as much since the Tesla purchase.
It mostly sits in the driveway waiting for the occasional trip to home depot.
I see many people mentioned 200+KW batteries?
How long would those take to charge, even at 240 volt 80Amps?

Basically if you need a truck for work, the power consumption and recharge time is prohibitive.
If you just need a truck for sport or occasional use, the expense and just sitting around in the driveway might not be a good thing.

BUT, if you just like a pickup (like us here in Texas) to drive to and from work, with the occasional trip to home depot, that should work, but like they say, maybe it has a small market.

 

[Red Sage]

When it comes to 'filling from empty', yes... A higher capacity battery pack takes longer to fill. The idea is that you would need to fill it less often.

Also, when it comes to Supercharging, larger battery packs add 50% charge sooner than smaller ones. Idea being that thge 'taper effect' is reduced somewhat by having more battery cells to fill.

 

[AudubonB]

An open letter to Messrs Musk, O'Connell et al -

As I type this I am 1,200 miles into my 3,800 mile trip from Arizona to Alaska. Am hauling 25,500 pounds of stuff (includes vehicle, trailer and goods...which, by the way, includes 8,000 lbs of PV batteries)....
...at a minimum, I will have consumed 380 gallons of diesel en route. I have performed this yearly peregrination for two decades - it is getting quite old. As am I.

I, we, the world really needs a competent electric truck - now. PLEASE!

 

[Tyl]

Elon...... "Make it so!"

.... if only The Texas Lesgislature would get outta the way!!!

A Trio of Tesla pickup trucks
Texas Tall Tough Trucks


Carbon Fiber.... Lighter & Stronger than steel.
...... Powered by the sun.

The Tesla 'Austin' 170 kWh
The Tesla 'Dallas' 255 kWh
The Tesla 'Houston' 340 kWh



Work The Future TODAY!!




Manufactured in Texas by Tesla!
...... for everyone.