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Tommy
Member
Watching the various videos posted here (and speaking to them in person) I have now observed several occasions where Tesla reps are "fast and loose" with the facts. I am at a loss why they feel compelled to do this, it makes me question ALL information being disseminated by them. This is one shortcoming I hope Tesla corrects.
Note: I think he says a penny a mile to charge and living in OC where the store is located it is 5 cents a mile NOT 1 cent. These kind of misrepresentations are going to bite Tesla.
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Jaff
Active Member
Tommy, I think that some slack needs to be given when dealing with a product sold nationally / internationally.
I doubt very much that TM has run the "cost / mile" scenario for every single city in the USA...generalizations will naturally be used...
Certainly the auto sales industry is guilty time & time again of some huge "stretchers", but due to the newness of the EV segment, I'm willing to keep an open mind (and do some research myself) about salient issues.
I live about a 30 minute drive from Niagara Falls...one of the cleanest energy sources in the world...I don't take all long tail-pipe arguements at face value as they are wildly inaccurate for my neck of the woods...:smile:
I doubt very much that TM has run the "cost / mile" scenario for every single city in the USA...generalizations will naturally be used...
Certainly the auto sales industry is guilty time & time again of some huge "stretchers", but due to the newness of the EV segment, I'm willing to keep an open mind (and do some research myself) about salient issues.
I live about a 30 minute drive from Niagara Falls...one of the cleanest energy sources in the world...I don't take all long tail-pipe arguements at face value as they are wildly inaccurate for my neck of the woods...:smile:
Tommy
Member
Ok, I replayed the video, at 8:15 the rep begins his "sell" to the u-tube poster. I counted over 1/2 dozen misrepresentations from that point to the end. As a point of reference, the rep was clearly talking about the charging costs locally and the charging infrastructure in California. Sorry, but my BS meter went off listening to this guy.... can't cut him any slack.
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Jaff
Active Member
I guess I'm immune to the dude's sales pitch...I wasn't listening to much of what he was saying.
Judging by the u-tuber's pre visit comments, I'd say he was already sold! :biggrin::wink:
Judging by the u-tuber's pre visit comments, I'd say he was already sold! :biggrin::wink:
Adm
Active Member
I get ticked off by sales representatives that don't know their products well enough, but I really get p****d off when they tell obvious lies. The facts are obvious and verifiable, so don't BS. Tesla has a great product and there is no reason what so ever to tell anything but the truth. Obvious lies will only lead to disappointment and that won't help the Tesla cause or that of the EV in general.
The video is the representative who I talked to at the Newport location as I am thinking about buying a Tesla. Therefore, he is my sales person. He quoted me 1c/mile and this appeared very attractive as for me, these savings are what will help me justify the high purchase price. When I saw this thread I sent him an email, mentioning that he may wish to reply and clarify given that this is a public forum on the Internet.
My email said:
"I was looking at the Tesla Forum and saw your video and read comments. Not sure you were aware of the video, and so I included the link. I remember you saying the electicity price came to about a penny a mile, but there seemed to be the feeling that in OC for example, the electricity cost is 5 x that, and was wondering who is right as that is a huge discrepancy. Any update on that? If you are correct, you may want to post that in the Forum. Just an FYI."
His Reply:
"It ranges tremendously on several factors. Solar power offsets, tiered pricing based on hours of use, consumption, dedicated meters and more all cause variables. You can pay 11 cents per mile in New York City, during peak hours, in the middle of summer I have heard, but compared to a gas car, In the US in 2005, according to the AAA, the cost of operation is an average of 56 cents per mile, and that was done when gas was $2.30, so I am going to guess it’s probably closer to 80 cents per mile or more. I’d say electricity even at a worse-case locally of 5 cents, 5x the best case scenario, is still 16x less than a gas car. This of course doesn’t calculate in time. What is the value of your time when you are working? Now, what is the value of your time when you are NOT working…I would guess its considerably higher. What is the time savings five days per week worth to you in your commute? What is the time involved in getting your car serviced, the time, not the money, involved in purchasing gas, etc. And how much does that reduce the cost per mile, whether you are pushing back down the 5 pennies per mile or the 1 penny per mile? Does that make sense to you? "
My Response:
"Thanks .... but a penny per mile is a simple calculation based on the amount of electricity a car uses per mile, and the cost of the electricity. The value of my time when not working etc. is a separate issue. If you are quoting 1c/mile, this indicates that, assuming the car is being charged off peak, the cost of the electricity can at least be as low as 1c/mile (in my area). You may want to comment on the thread as that thread is dedicated to your Newport dealership. If you are not a forum member, I can post your reply as a favor to give others the feedback and clarification."
He replied that I could post this info, as I would not post private email correspondence without permission. I do not understand his justification for saying the electricity cost is 1c/mile, but perhaps I am missing something. Just an FYI.
My email said:
"I was looking at the Tesla Forum and saw your video and read comments. Not sure you were aware of the video, and so I included the link. I remember you saying the electicity price came to about a penny a mile, but there seemed to be the feeling that in OC for example, the electricity cost is 5 x that, and was wondering who is right as that is a huge discrepancy. Any update on that? If you are correct, you may want to post that in the Forum. Just an FYI."
His Reply:
"It ranges tremendously on several factors. Solar power offsets, tiered pricing based on hours of use, consumption, dedicated meters and more all cause variables. You can pay 11 cents per mile in New York City, during peak hours, in the middle of summer I have heard, but compared to a gas car, In the US in 2005, according to the AAA, the cost of operation is an average of 56 cents per mile, and that was done when gas was $2.30, so I am going to guess it’s probably closer to 80 cents per mile or more. I’d say electricity even at a worse-case locally of 5 cents, 5x the best case scenario, is still 16x less than a gas car. This of course doesn’t calculate in time. What is the value of your time when you are working? Now, what is the value of your time when you are NOT working…I would guess its considerably higher. What is the time savings five days per week worth to you in your commute? What is the time involved in getting your car serviced, the time, not the money, involved in purchasing gas, etc. And how much does that reduce the cost per mile, whether you are pushing back down the 5 pennies per mile or the 1 penny per mile? Does that make sense to you? "
My Response:
"Thanks .... but a penny per mile is a simple calculation based on the amount of electricity a car uses per mile, and the cost of the electricity. The value of my time when not working etc. is a separate issue. If you are quoting 1c/mile, this indicates that, assuming the car is being charged off peak, the cost of the electricity can at least be as low as 1c/mile (in my area). You may want to comment on the thread as that thread is dedicated to your Newport dealership. If you are not a forum member, I can post your reply as a favor to give others the feedback and clarification."
He replied that I could post this info, as I would not post private email correspondence without permission. I do not understand his justification for saying the electricity cost is 1c/mile, but perhaps I am missing something. Just an FYI.
This isn't the first time we heard a $.01/mile quote...
For instance,
At some point I recall they started saying something like "less than $.02/mile."
Those pictures are from years back when power tended to be a bit less expensive, so it figures that the costs will go up slowly over time.
In any case, it is a small number of pennies per mile, substantially less than the costs of operating a gasoline vehicle.
For instance,
At some point I recall they started saying something like "less than $.02/mile."
Those pictures are from years back when power tended to be a bit less expensive, so it figures that the costs will go up slowly over time.
In any case, it is a small number of pennies per mile, substantially less than the costs of operating a gasoline vehicle.
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There's a Sport owner here who has $0.05/kwh power after midnight. 61.6KW at 220VAC 70A for 4 hours... that works out to $0.0153 per mile. Not bad, but if I put in a 50KW solar panel array it will pay for itself in 4 years and then my power will be essentially free. State laws here (and federal rebates) take the cost of a $300K system down to $20-30K, as I understand, but I'll have more firm figures soon.
This is something I do not agree with this salesperson on. Tesla is also guilty of vague info, which leads to misunderstandings.
You cannot compare the opration of an ICE @ 0.58 a mile to a Tesla @ 0.0X. The 0.0X cost Tesla uses is for electricity ONLY, while the .58 a mile for the gasser are overall costs including the car.
This salesman in the video is so full of $hit, he reminds me of sleazy used car salesmen.
You cannot compare the opration of an ICE @ 0.58 a mile to a Tesla @ 0.0X. The 0.0X cost Tesla uses is for electricity ONLY, while the .58 a mile for the gasser are overall costs including the car.
This salesman in the video is so full of $hit, he reminds me of sleazy used car salesmen.
Also depends on how you add it up. You have to include everything on the bill.
Our electricity cost here is currently 6.4 cents per kWh. But:
Add a delivery charge of 4.2 cents.
Add regulatory charges of 0.71 cents.
Add debt retirement charge of 0.67 cents.
Add tax of 0.73 cents.
Total charge 12.7 cents per kWh. Several cents a mile, depending on how you drive.
Our electricity cost here is currently 6.4 cents per kWh. But:
Add a delivery charge of 4.2 cents.
Add regulatory charges of 0.71 cents.
Add debt retirement charge of 0.67 cents.
Add tax of 0.73 cents.
Total charge 12.7 cents per kWh. Several cents a mile, depending on how you drive.
Adm
Active Member
Jeff, I think the reply Joel got says enough. The sales representative is BSing around the facts that really matter. The question was how he arrived at 1c/mi. It is totally irrelevant how c/mi is calculated for ICE cars.
Fact is that the cost per mile will differ from state to state, from power company to power company. It will matter if you charge at night, whether or not you have PV cells on your roof top. Taking that all into account it may be that under extreme circumstances you can drive your car at 1c or 2c per mile, but it´s more likely it will cost more.
My point is that Tesla sells a great product even if it would cost 5c per mile to drive a Roadster or a Model S. There is absolutely no reason to stretch the truth to the limit.
I´ve reserved a Model S because it´s a ground breaking technological marvel which happens to look damned good too. I know there will be times where I will think: "mmm Tesla engineers, please go back to the drawing board", but that's the risk of buying new technology. The last thing I want is for a sales representative to paint the wrong picture and setting me up for a disappointment that didn´t need to be there.
Tesla is a new company and needs all the positive feed back from costumers that they can get. There will be ignorant buyers who will expect more from the Roadster or Model S than those cars can deliver, but it shouldn't be because Tesla purposely misinformed them.
Jaff
Active Member
Adm,
I agree with most of what you say...(btw, in stating differing cost / mile, don't forget to add "from country to country" to the geographical list).
To me, I would suggest that the TM rep is mal-informed on some important issues & stats...I guess I find that sort of thing (salesman preparedness & product knowledge or lack thereof) to be more amusing than malicious...perhaps it is because imo, when buying a cutting edge product of any kind, it is imperative that the consumer educate themselves to a higher standard prior to buying to avoid any sort of "buyer's remorse".
I would state that anytime a salesman uses comparatives, they should never use best case my product vs. worst case their product comparisons without both qualifying this comparison as best case / worst case and by making sure the potential consumer completely understands this.
I agree with your summation paragraph 100%.
I also agree that this product, given the limited supply, will easily sell itself...no buncombe required. :smile:
Jaff
I agree with most of what you say...(btw, in stating differing cost / mile, don't forget to add "from country to country" to the geographical list).
To me, I would suggest that the TM rep is mal-informed on some important issues & stats...I guess I find that sort of thing (salesman preparedness & product knowledge or lack thereof) to be more amusing than malicious...perhaps it is because imo, when buying a cutting edge product of any kind, it is imperative that the consumer educate themselves to a higher standard prior to buying to avoid any sort of "buyer's remorse".
I would state that anytime a salesman uses comparatives, they should never use best case my product vs. worst case their product comparisons without both qualifying this comparison as best case / worst case and by making sure the potential consumer completely understands this.
I agree with your summation paragraph 100%.
I also agree that this product, given the limited supply, will easily sell itself...no buncombe required. :smile:
Jaff
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Yeah, and the rear tires are $300 each. I spend more on tires/km in the last year than electricity/km.
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