Tesla Lemon Model S owner Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post

[CalDreamin]

I am not keen about replying to Tesla's anonymous post. If I don't reply, I assumed to be wrong. If I do reply, I will be attacked by many of Tesla's fans who will never let the facts get in the way. I do know that my issues with my Tesla and how Tesla is treating me are not unique. There are other owners who own lemons. I am the only owner who has hired an attorney.

• The car charging cable (UMC) failed while I was on vacation (winter 2014). Had I not diligently checked on my car, the battery would have been “bricked” (ruined beyond repair). The car has a well-known loss of power; it “leaks” electricity (vampire loss). Tesla requires all owners of the Model S to plug in their cars all the time. If the defective charging cable had not been discovered, my car would have been ruined. A neighbor was nice enough to change the cable that Tesla delivered while I was on vacation. If the neighbor had not replaced the cable, I would have had to fly home. So all Tesla owners, be advised, if you go on vacation, you may come back to a ruined car if you don’t check the charge status of your Model S every day. Tesla does not check. If I hadn’t been compulsive and checked the car every day with my remote iPhone app, the car’s $30,000 battery would have been ruined. The Tesla engineers still don’t know why the charge cable failed.

It's a lot more difficult to "brick" the Model S high voltage battery than the OP indicates. It's not necessary to check the car every day when on vacation.

At the start of Winter 2014 -- the time frame referenced by the OP -- all Model S had received an OTA notice to upgrade to Firmware 5.8. Some Model S were already on earlier versions of 5.x by that time.

Firmware 5.x reduced the vampire drain to 3 rated miles per day (1% per day). I confirmed this by leaving my S85 unplugged and unused during Winter 2014 for a 34-day long vampire drain test with Firmware 5.8, which I documented here. Bjorn Nyland documented a similar vampire drain (slightly less than I observed) when he went on a Winter 2014 vacation and left his Model S85 unplugged for 27 days; he posted about that here.

If you go on vacation and leave your Model S unplugged with a standard (90%) charge, on Firmware 5.x you'd need to be gone for almost 3 months for the vampire drain to discharge the usable portion of an S85 HV battery. With Firmware 4.x or earlier, the higher rate of vampire loss might have reached this SOC in about 1 month.

If the usable portion of the Model S battery is completely discharged, the Model S will disconnect the HV battery from the car systems, eliminating the vampire drain. Only the very slow self-discharge rate for the Lithium-ion HV battery would remain. A few kWh of the HV battery is not accessible/usable for driving or the car's systems, because it's reserved to prevent the severe damage from "bricking". I'm not sure what the self-discharge rate is, but I understand the HV battery would last for still more months. The small 12V battery would discharge and die, but the large and expensive HV battery would be protected. Worst case scenario, Tesla's warranty covers the cost of bricking.

 

[Mnlevin]

I can sometimes be a bull in a china shop, but if I had problems with TESLA I wouldn't want the world to know about it or hire a notorious attorney getting me on National News. Reading the blog and summary of your problems I think you have a questionable case. Furthermore, like stated above what is your end game? Do you want a TESLA or just to get rid of it? Most of us would question your motivation. But then again, you appear to have a history of complaining to car companies. Some people just have trouble following them. I am sorry for you on many levels. Maybe you should just go get a new FORD or Toyota.

 

[LakeForest]

Your a doctor so you must be an intelligent guy. I beg you to watch the video which your clown..er, lawyer, made and look when he shows the doorhandles. They clearly "present" once the car is unlocked(you can tell it is unlocked by the flashing taillights). Your lawyer actually showed your car working as it should, which is a good thing if you ever park it anywhere but your personal garage.

 

[omarsultan]

2. TM's unfortunate use of the term 'tamper resistant' tape is 'leading the jury' by implying your opening frunk/replacing fuses is somehow a sinister act. When any car has intermittent electrical problems replacing fuses as well as testing the entire fuse block (for intermittent connections) is an ongoing requirement. And something that has to be done several times. Non-mechanics might not understand this (e.g. TM's respondents).

Per the Tesla blog, they recorded the frunk being opened before the fuse blew and that applying the tamper-resistant tape miraculously fixed the apparent electrical problem. I am assuming they are smart enough to not make this statement without the logs to back it up. The OP did not refute any of this in his post.

After investigating, they determined that the car's front trunk had been opened immediately before the fuse failure on each of these occasions. (The fuse is accessed through the front trunk.) Ultimately, Tesla service applied non-tamper tape to the fuse switch. From that point on, the fuse performed flawlessly.

 

[ElSupreme]

No to mention that all of the links posted the OP only seems to have door handle issues.

And he linked a roadster coolant pump issue too boot.

 

[rage_777]

You should probably show your lawyer this quote that you made in a thread (When Features Disappear - Page 2), just before you sent your first letter.

I don't blame TM for their decisions. I support their decisions.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I'm curious about the Volvo lemon suit as well. No mention of that.

 

[rage_777]

I like this part:

I too, have a Public Service Announcement: There are companies, great companies run by Billionaires, that force consumers to give up their Freedom of Speech and Right to Trial by Jury just for the opportunity to buy an electric car.

Did Tesla force you to give up your right to free speech? How in the world did they do that?

Tell your lawyer that a lemon is not the same as a recall.

I too find it “of interest” that more than one manufacturer rolls out a lemon now and then. Just today Toyota recalled 6 Million vehicles, and in the past few months, GM recalled 5.1 Million. Maybe tomorrow Tesla will buy back a lemon or two.

If Tesla didn't respond to you "in any way – no call, no letter, no blog post", then how did they "attack" you?

Tesla takes the big corporation approach by attacking its customer, rather than addressing its own failures.

Also, you need to tell your lawyer about the problem you are having. I thought your problem was that the door handles came out, but they just didn't open when you pulled on them (MS P85 Tesla Door Wont open DEC 18 2013).

It’s common on Tesla forums that door handles don’t work…that customers can’t get in their cars. That is precisely that problem that has persisted in this case. Door handles not presenting is nothing new to Tesla.

So, that is "precisely" not the problem. Is it usual for a lawyer to not know exactly what the problem is?

 

[MikeC]

I'll give some respect for posting the rebuttal (and even more if you respond to the questions posted).

I don't understand why you would start sending certified letters to HQ instead of just getting it fixed at the service center like everyone else does. The door handle videos that I have seen are suspicious (e.g., the flash of someone unlocking the car when it does eventually work).

I think you may be getting used by your lawyer to aggrandize himself at the expense of Tesla, he was probably frothing at the mouth to find a Model S owner willing to sue Tesla. There was no need for that silly video, that was just embarrassing.

 

[MassX1317]

Merge?

Tesla Lemon Model S owner Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post

 

[Smitty769]

If Lemon Law refers to faults on one specific vehicle (not MAKE of vehicle, just (1) vehicle), why is there a list of other customers and the faults on their cars, even if they're similar? Those issues wouldn't matter at all in this case, would they?

Just because others may have experienced similar issues in the past, doesn't make this one (1) car more of a lemon, right?

This is a serious question, I'm not 100% sure and am curious...

 

[MassX1317]

Per a previous post on this forum, the original poster says he was assaulted because the door wouldn't open and he couldn't get into his car fast enough. The plot thickens.

I bet the owner and lawyer are looking for a new car, damages and all lawyer fees. Just speculation though. If it was just to fix the car, replace with an equivalent or something similar, Tesla would have taken care of it by now.

 

[swegman]

Something just doesn't seem right to me, based upon my own experience with Tesla. I received a P85 in March, 2013 (which I think is the same time period the OP received his car). I had problems after putting 100 miles on the car, where the car would go to sleep (after it was parked) and not wake up until it decided it wanted to wake up. The car was in the shop numerous times and they could not figure out what was wrong. Without any prodding from me, Tesla HQ called me with several proposals to make we whole. I accepted one of their offers (I prefer not to get into specific details), and have been a happy Tesla owner since.

 

[Btrflyl8e]

I get someone's frustration with issues with their car, and even to the point of invoking the Lemon Law. But for it to seemingly escalate to this insanity over a few weeks is just off. Then this particular lawyer? More off. This person's second Lemon Law suit in less than 2 years? Off, so off. Oh, and this lawyer REALLY likes to be the first one to bring a Lemon Law case against a company... Check out the one he filed on Fisker, complete with a cheesy enough video to bind you up for life. Lactose intolerants, watch at your own risk.

I really pride myself on being a fair and nonjudgmental person unless I've been privy to all facts, but this whole thing is bat sh** crazy.

 

[wycolo]

> Per the Tesla blog, they recorded the frunk being opened before the fuse blew [omarsultan]

Thank you! I was reading that as 'replaced' rather than 'blew'. Got hung up on the 'fuse switch' whatever that is supposed to mean. Also 'fuse failure' is a strange expression; when it blows it is doing its job, not failing. But ok, this is civilian-speak and based on this the ball is now in the other court (tennis-speak).

I just went outside with a mirror so I could verify if and when the tail lights flash. Approaching my locked car nothing happens until I press the driver's handle, then the tail lights flash twice and all 4 handles present. Only sound is the motors pushing out the handles. Guessing that with an auto-presenting car these 2 things would initiate together when you get within 10 feet (?) of car.

That might be enough preparation to intelligently watch this video. Ooops, too late.
--

 

[Lloyd]

In the video (now pulled from Utube) showing the handles and him not being able to open the doors, THEY WERE LOCKED! You are not supposed to be able to open the doors when they are locked. The entire time he was trying to open the door, the springs were attempting to retract the handles. They were NOT presented. This video was manufactured to look like the doors would not open. Owners who understand the operation of their cars can see the difference.

 

[Canuck]

Thank you for your post Montgon626. The manner in which you presented your problems, and selectively decided to deal with the concerns raised, has left no doubt in my mind that you, and your lawyer, are to blame and not Tesla. You are the type of person that I hope I never come across in life, either personally or professionally.

 

[markb1]

No to mention that all of the links posted the OP only seems to have door handle issues.

And he linked a roadster coolant pump issue too boot.

I guess he added more links since the original post. But none of them are about the same door handle issue the OP claims to have had. They're mostly about doors opening by themselves (a well known issue with a solution). There's one about the door handle failing to retract, but I don't think that's what the OP had, either. He seems to be be throwing out a bunch of links unrelated to his claims.

 

[markb1]

He also doesn't address the implication that someone tampered with the fuses. Or that he has recently filed another lemon lawsuit for a Volvo. It's perfectly reasonable for Tesla to say these things if the facts are on their side.

 

[qwk]

This guy must not realize that the internet is forever. Once you post things, they aren't going to go away, even if you delete them. A hard lesson to learn for some....