Tesla Lemon Model S owner Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post

[scriptacus]

"...the break lights flashed likely indicated someone staged the handles extending..."
"And yes, the door handles look staged (if only for the demonstration to show it not working..."

Where are people getting that this is an indication of staging? When the door handles present the brake lights flash, regardless of what action caused them to present; key fob unlock, auto-unlock on approach, or light touch on the handle.

 

[MikeC]

"...the break lights flashed likely indicated someone staged the handles extending..."
"And yes, the door handles look staged (if only for the demonstration to show it not working..."

Where are people getting that this is an indication of staging? When the door handles present the brake lights flash, regardless of what action caused them to present; key fob unlock, auto-unlock on approach, or light touch on the handle.

Nope, I just checked this. Leave the fob in the car and wait 60 seconds for the handles to retract - pressing the handles makes them present with no flash.

 

[tom66]

Also, Megna did pre-empt the opening. "wa...wait a minute..OK" then the doors open. I don't think the Tesla makes any other noises before the handles go out does it?

 

[NigelM]

Mod Note: and again....

 

[Cosmacelf]

Just to let people know, it seems that the moderators are not allowing posts that criticize the plaintiff in this legal case. So if this thread seems a bit solicitous towards the plaintiff, you now know why.

 

[Electroman]

I don't get this: he has bad mouthed about Tesla in the past even before he got his Model S.

Why can't that be an evidence against him on probable cause of mischief ?

 

[markb1]

Nope, I just checked this. Leave the fob in the car and wait 60 seconds for the handles to retract - pressing the handles makes them present with no flash.

What happens when the key is out of range, and then it is moved into range while repeatedly pressing the door handle? I think the issue OP was complaining about was that the key fob isn't detected reliably. I believe it's the unlocking of the car that causes the lights to flash, which makes the video consistent with the alleged problem.

 

[NigelM]

Just to let people know, it seems that the moderators are not allowing posts that criticize the plaintiff in this legal case. So if this thread seems a bit solicitous towards the plaintiff, you now know why.

LOL. I don't think anyone would describe this thread as being solicitous towards montgom626. I'm just maintaining normal decorum rules regardless of subject.

 

[lolachampcar]

My key routinely fails to allow my handles to present when the key is in my pocket next to my wallet (which has two card keys in it). The car also "looses" my key while driving when the key wiggles around to certain orientation on my wallet. It is reproducible, understandable, a weakness in the MS key system and by no means an issue at all. Period.

 

[scriptacus]

Nope, I just checked this. Leave the fob in the car and wait 60 seconds for the handles to retract - pressing the handles makes them present with no flash.

Leave the fob in the car? I don't think that is what the video is showing. It's simply showing that sometimes the car takes a while to detect the presence of the key, outside of the vehicle, when approached.

 

[dsm363]

Leave the fob in the car? I don't think that is what the video is showing. It's simply showing that sometimes the car takes a while to detect the presence of the key, outside of the vehicle, when approached.

Did he show the key fob in his hand when he walked up in the video? People are assuming someone was standing out of range with the key fob filming then after a few 'attempts' to open the door they pushed the button on the key fob to open the door.

 

[MikeC]

What happens when the key is out of range, and then it is moved into range while repeatedly pressing the door handle? I think the issue OP was complaining about was that the key fob isn't detected reliably. I believe it's the unlocking of the car that causes the lights to flash, which makes the video consistent with the alleged problem.

Leave the fob in the car? I don't think that is what the video is showing. It's simply showing that sometimes the car takes a while to detect the presence of the key, outside of the vehicle, when approached.

I was responding to scriptacus comment: "When the door handles present the brake lights flash, regardless of what action caused them to present; key fob unlock, auto-unlock on approach, or light touch on the handle."

I was pointing out that this is not true, if the fob remains in range (it doesn't really have to be in the car) so the car remains unlocked but the handles retract after 60 seconds - a light touch on the handle will make them present but will not make the lights flash. This means that the lights only flash when the car is unlocked (by key fob unlock or auto-approach unlock). So what happened in the video was that he was pulling on locked handles until the car was unlocked as indicated by the lights flashing. This is the normal behavior of the car and that is why the video is "staged".

 

[Lloyd]

Exactly!!

 

[markb1]

I was responding to scriptacus comment: "When the door handles present the brake lights flash, regardless of what action caused them to present; key fob unlock, auto-unlock on approach, or light touch on the handle."

I was pointing out that this is not true, if the fob remains in range (it doesn't really have to be in the car) so the car remains unlocked but the handles retract after 60 seconds - a light touch on the handle will make them present but will not make the lights flash. This means that the lights only flash when the car is unlocked (by key fob unlock or auto-approach unlock). So what happened in the video was that he was pulling on locked handles until the car was unlocked as indicated by the lights flashing. This is the normal behavior of the car and that is why the video is "staged".

I don't see how that's any evidence that the video was staged. (It doesn't rule out that the video was staged, of course.) If the problem is that detection of the key fob is flaky, the video is entirely consistent with that.

 

[dsm363]

I don't see how that's any evidence that the video was staged. (It doesn't rule out that the video was staged, of course.) If the problem is that detection of the key fob is flaky, the video is entirely consistent with that.

It is also consistent with being staged too. Is the key fob visible in the video? If he held it in his hand so you could see it (also not proof as could take battery out or use someone else's key fob) then that might help. Only looking at the logs which I'm sure Tesla has done could tell us.

 

[MikeC]

I don't see how that's any evidence that the video was staged. (It doesn't rule out that the video was staged, of course.) If the problem is that detection of the key fob is flaky, the video is entirely consistent with that.

If we give montgom626 the benefit of the doubt, it's conceivable that "delayed fob detection" could be the culprit. However, this would not be a problem with the door handles as he has asserted and as Megna was attempting to show in the video, it would be a problem with key fob detection. Also, I have never heard of problems with key fob detection, except maybe in high RF areas like Mt. Wilson.

 

[markb1]

If we give montgom626 the benefit of the doubt, it's conceivable that "delayed fob detection" could be the culprit. However, this would not be a problem with the door handles as he has asserted and as Megna was attempting to show in the video, it would be a problem with key fob detection. Also, I have never heard of problems with key fob detection, except maybe in high RF areas like Mt. Wilson.

What? There are documented problems with key fob detection all over this forum, and in this very thread. I've had such problems myself. I think "door handle's don't work" is a perfectly normal expression of this problem, for people who are not as pedantic as you and me.

I'm not taking montgom626's side here, and I actually think he's being pretty ridiculous about this. But I don't like seeing someone be accused a lying without evidence to back it up.

 

[MikeC]

What? There are documented problems with key fob detection all over this forum, and in this very thread. I've had such problems myself. I think "door handle's don't work" is a perfectly normal expression of this problem, for people who are not as pedantic as you and me.

I'm not taking montgom626's side here, and I actually think he's being pretty ridiculous about this. But I don't like seeing someone be accused a lying without evidence to back it up.

I haven't seen that complaint. Link to a post?

And I maintain that not detecting the key fob is a "car unlocking problem", not a door handle problem. There is nothing wrong with the door handles in this case, and replacing them with perfect new handles would obviously not fix the problem.

Furthermore, in the video Megna is clearly pulling against a handle that is trying to retract. Any owner knows that the door handle is not supposed to open the door under this circumstance. And if it is truly a complaint regarding key fob detection, the key fob should be clearly shown in the video - or what is the point?

 

[markb1]

I haven't seen that complaint. Link to a post?

Tesla Lemon Model S owner Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post - Page 21

And I maintain that not detecting the key fob is a "car unlocking problem", not a door handle problem. There is nothing wrong with the door handles in this case, and replacing them with perfect new handles would obviously not fix the problem.

That's true, but whether "key fob not detected" equals "door handles not working" just depends on how picky you want to be. It's probably not the kind of thing that would get you convicted of perjury if you said it under oath. (But IANAL.)

Furthermore, in the video Megna is clearly pulling against a handle that is trying to retract. Any owner knows that the door handle is not supposed to open the door under this circumstance. And if it is truly a complaint regarding key fob detection, the key fob should be clearly shown in the video - or what is the point?

I think the point is to bash Tesla.

 

[MikeC]

Tesla Lemon Model S owner Rebuttal to Tesla's Blog Post - Page 21



That's true, but whether "key fob not detected" equals "door handles not working" just depends on how picky you want to be. It's probably not the kind of thing that would get you convicted of perjury if you said it under oath. (But IANAL.)



I think the point is to bash Tesla.

Okay, thanks for that link, I don't disagree with your points. But I do think if someone is filing a lemon lawsuit alleging faulty door handles in a court of law, it is not picky or pedantic to point out when there is nothing wrong with the door handles.