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Tesla Gigafactory
- Thread starter domenick
- Start date
I have heard Mr Musk mention geothermal several times since proposing the gigafactory, and I cringe each time.
* IF the business park does possess an appropriate thermocline, then it would be well-documented by now and there is a fair chance it also would be being exploited, or in the process of being so. I have heard zilch regarding that.
* IF there are hydrothermal fluids in that area, I can come this close to guaranteeing that the fluids' Total Dissolved Solids not only would be not in the ppm or tenths percent range, but well into the percent numbers...and of such carbonates and sulfates so as to form transfer vessel-destroying precipitates within minutes of any dT's occurring...killing any such plant.
West-central Nevada is no place for geothermal energy of any scale. Not with today's technology.
So why has he brought up that subject multiple times?
SmartElectric
Active Member
Your claim is countered by this article.
Geothermal energy has success in Nevada, wants to spread to the rest of the West | Ars Technica
I don't know if he means that kind of geothermal. It might just be that he means that they will place piping just below the surface, where the temperature is a constant 50-60F, and use it for cooling in the summer. Possibly also heating at night using heat pumps. This sort of ground heat/free cooling is pretty common in Norway.
Geothermal heat pump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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China Lake Naval Weapons Center which is not far from Nevada and is on the edge of the Great Basin (which stretches from Eastern California to Utah), has had a geothermal plant since the mid-1980s. My ex-brother-in-law had a friend from college who was the base Geologist at China Lake and he pushed through to get the plant built. I went to the dedication ceremony sometime around 1984. I believe the plant produced enough power for the entire base.
The Long Valley caldera is a major Geologic feature in Eastern California and Mammoth Mt has had a hot spot since the early 1980s that was though to become an active volcano, but the magma chamber just got close to the surface and stopped. While the chamber was rising, I went to the spot that was the epicenter. All the rabbit holes had steam coming out of them and all trees were dead in a circle about 1 mile in diameter. The dirt was about 120F. It was surreal.
Low level geothermal is possible in most places of the world by exploiting the temperature difference between the surface and some distance down. It is sufficient to heat the water for your house and there are home systems available for that, but it wouldn't make a highly efficient electricity source.
The Long Valley caldera is a major Geologic feature in Eastern California and Mammoth Mt has had a hot spot since the early 1980s that was though to become an active volcano, but the magma chamber just got close to the surface and stopped. While the chamber was rising, I went to the spot that was the epicenter. All the rabbit holes had steam coming out of them and all trees were dead in a circle about 1 mile in diameter. The dirt was about 120F. It was surreal.
Low level geothermal is possible in most places of the world by exploiting the temperature difference between the surface and some distance down. It is sufficient to heat the water for your house and there are home systems available for that, but it wouldn't make a highly efficient electricity source.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yggdrasil's and JRP3's comments about ground source heat pumps discuss an absolutely effective and appropriate use of geothermal energy, as is wdolson's second paragraph. If and when that kind of dT efficiently can be used to create electricity, I will be the first to acknowledge....and invest. However, I reiterate my contention that the geothermal brine dream, as in the ARS Techinca article Smart Electric mentioned, is a thermodynamic nightmare and one of the very best ways to make a small fortune. If you start with a large one.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
and more detail from http://geo-energy.org/events/2014 Annual US & Global Geothermal Power Production Report Final.pdf
U.S. 2014 Developing Project List
Table 2: U.S. Developing Geothermal Power Projects 2014
Agua Quieta
Ormat Nevada Inc.
CH Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 1
Argenta
Ormat Nevada Inc.
CH Unproduced
NV, Lander
Phase 1
Aurora
Gradient Resources
60
CH Unproduced
NV, Mineral
Phase 2
Brady EGS
Ormat Technologies
Enhanced Geothermal Systems
NV, Churchill
Phase 4
Carson Lake
Ormat Nevada Inc.
10 MW
CH
Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 2
Colado
Gradient Resources
60 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Pershing
Phase 2
Desert Queen
Magma Energy (U.S.) Corp
CH Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 1
Dixie Meadows
Ormat Nevada Inc.
30 MW
CH Unproduced
NV,
Churchill
Phase 2
Fallon
Gradient
Resources
50 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 2
Foley Hot Springs
Ormat
Nevada Inc.
CH Unproduced
OR, Lane
Phase 1
Gerlach
U.S. Geothermal
18 MW
25 MW
CH Unproduced
NV,
Washoe
Phase 2
Gerlach Power
Kodali, INC.
60 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Washoe
Phase 1
Granite Creek
U.S. Geothermal
CH Unproduced
NV, Washoe
Phase 1
Granite Springs
Magma Energy (U.S.) Corp
CH Unproduced
NV, Pershing
Phase 1
Harmon Lake
Enel North America
15 MW
15 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 1
Hawthorne Army Depot
Navy Geothermal Program
10 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Mineral
Phase 2
Lee Hot Springs
Earth Power Resources
16 MW
32 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 3
Marys River
Standard Steam Trust
CH Unproduced
NV, Elko
Phase 1
Marys River SW
Standard Steam Trust
CH Unproduced
NV, Elko
Phase 1
Naval Air Station Fallon: Dixie Valley
Navy Geothermal Program
10 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 1
Naval Air Station Fallon-Main
Navy Geothermal Program
10 MW
CH
Unproduced
NV, Churchill
Phase 2
North Valley
Alternative Earth Resources
55 MW
120 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Washoe &
Churchill
Phase 2
Pumpernickel
Alternative Earth Resources (AER)
30 MW
33 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Humboldt
Phase 2
San Emidio Phase II
U.S. Geothermal
12.75 MW
44 MW
CH Produced
NV, Washoe
Phase 3
San Emidio Phase III
U.S. Geothermal
24.6 MW
44 MW
CH Produced
NV, Washoe
Phase 1
Silver Peak
Rockwood Lithium Inc. sponsored by U.S. DOE
5 MW
5 MW
CH Unproduced
NV, Esmeralda
Phase 4
No, it's not.
Look: I would love to see geothermal potential become transformed into reality. In a very small number of high-T sites, the aqueous chemistry is amenable to being exploited. But the inescapable truth is that usually isn't the case.
Physics is one thing...chemistry another.
Look: I would love to see geothermal potential become transformed into reality. In a very small number of high-T sites, the aqueous chemistry is amenable to being exploited. But the inescapable truth is that usually isn't the case.
Physics is one thing...chemistry another.
My ex-borther-in-law at one time was trying to find geothermal sites that could be exploited for Southern Cal Edison. He got to know Eastern California quite well. He said finding geothermal wasn't that difficult, it was finding clean geothermal. Most sources have a lot of dissolved chemical, many of them quite corrosive to steel that it made geothermal energy production impractical. It's possible somebody has figured out how to clean the steam, or they are using some sort of advanced material that is more resistant to corroding for the turbine blades?
MassModel3
Member
AKA: Ceramic
Ceramic Matrix Composites are non-corrosive, heat-resistant, lightweight, and harder than steel. Cost effective? Well, that's a whole different issue.
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Probably something like that. Material science has advanced dramatically since the 1970s when he was looking for geothermal. Even if the blades aren't corrodable, gunk is going to build up on the blades and would need regular cleaning.
That's it: it's the gunk much more than the corrosion. Acidic fluids? No problem: you can find the appropriate materials. The problem is that what is held in solution at high temperatures - things like CaCO3 and BaSO4 - become irremediably insoluble as you strip out the T(which is how you make your electricity). They precipitate out and clog your pipes close to instantaneously. And if item A can be controlled by changing the pH....that ends up making item B that much more insoluble.
So you need clean, clean fluids....AND high-T fluids. And, truthfully, there's only one place to find that combination: in unicorn tears.
So you need clean, clean fluids....AND high-T fluids. And, truthfully, there's only one place to find that combination: in unicorn tears.
chickensevil
Active Member
Can I help? It has been stated by Elon (and sorry I don't have the specific source to quote) that they would be importing geothermal power. I don't know that they are going to get it on site at all. They are also going to import some wind if I am not mistaken. I think it was that there was a decently large wind farm in eastern Nevada that had a lot of generation... To much at times.
Maybe I am just remembering wrong, which is possible, but I don't think they were going to do local geothermal.
Maybe I am just remembering wrong, which is possible, but I don't think they were going to do local geothermal.
Or Iceland. They do almost all of their electric power generation and domestic heating with geothermal.
-- Doug
Doug, that's correct. Basaltic lava flows, particularly recent ones, tend to be extremely resistant to hot water corrosion - little in their pyroxenes/olivines/plagioclases gets taken up by the waters to foul up geothermal plants. And if it's recent activity, then there tends to be a heat source to create the hot water. We haven't much of that in the US...esp. in western NV.
Tesla won't use fossil fuels at the Gigafactory. That rules out backup generators.
Source: Tesla Motors - JB Straubel - University of Nevada, Reno - 10/11/15 - YouTube
Source: Tesla Motors - JB Straubel - University of Nevada, Reno - 10/11/15 - YouTube
That was also confirmed in the video above.
Here's confession of a Duh! moment...although I'm not sure anyone else has caught this, either.
Earlier, I mused at all the empty space alongside the walled-in compound in front of the Gigafactory that houses the transformers. It is utterly obvious what will go there: Tesla will be using it to install a very large number of Powerpacks. That's precisely where you will want them.
If you didn't hear it here first, let me know.
Earlier, I mused at all the empty space alongside the walled-in compound in front of the Gigafactory that houses the transformers. It is utterly obvious what will go there: Tesla will be using it to install a very large number of Powerpacks. That's precisely where you will want them.
If you didn't hear it here first, let me know.
Tech Instructors Get Insider's Peek Of Tesla Biz
Not sure where to post this article but since there is a reference to the Gigafactory why not here. Great to hear how much Tesla is working hard to incorporate universities and colleges in support of their mission.
"Randy Walden is the director of the Applied Technology Center at TMCC. He recently attended a one-week externship at Tesla with another instructor.
I really wanted to see their automation and make sure that our courses and what we’re offering are in line with what their needs are as it relates to the Gigafactory,” Walden says.
http://kunr.org/post/tech-instructors-get-insiders-peek-tesla-biz#stream/0
Not sure where to post this article but since there is a reference to the Gigafactory why not here. Great to hear how much Tesla is working hard to incorporate universities and colleges in support of their mission.
"Randy Walden is the director of the Applied Technology Center at TMCC. He recently attended a one-week externship at Tesla with another instructor.
I really wanted to see their automation and make sure that our courses and what we’re offering are in line with what their needs are as it relates to the Gigafactory,” Walden says.
http://kunr.org/post/tech-instructors-get-insiders-peek-tesla-biz#stream/0
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