Tesla forced an update of my P85D to 2019.16.2

[mvotb]

Show me the paperwork that grants you unlimited supercharging. I know I never received any. Also I'm assuming you use the phone app and agreed to both its terms of service and the terms of service when you first setup your car? Well here are those terms of service. There is a whole section on them cutting off cars they deem "unsafe."

Privacy & Legal | Tesla

Ok This is what my contract says "supercharging enabled". This is what my printed page said in 2016
Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. PERIOD. NOTHING ELSE.

So now that I have provided you with what my contract says, and you are such a legal genius, show me the code section that states that one party, to a two party contract, can unilaterally change the terms of the contract, through subsequent policy changes, or by any other means. I await your informative counsel.

Subject 2. wk057 has forgotten more about what you and MX are talking about, than both of you together, will ever know. Go look up his posts and all the things he has done Tesla wise, then stop talking and learn.

Tesla should hire wk057 to run their IT dept, they would be way ahead of the game, at any price. The idiots they have now are only hurting the company.

 

[HankLloydRight]

@HankLloydRight The way software is handled by Tesla was explained to me by @wk057. With this new information, I do not see why it was necessary for Tesla to blindly force a software update on you. Without any additional information, you were right.

It's not about being "right" or "wrong". And again, updating the software is also fine. I just want transparency and predictability in the process. I also don't want Tesla to take my car out of service (or anyone else's car) at their sole discretion. I don't care what anyone's personal position is on the update policy, but I think most people will agree that blind, unannounced and unscheduled updates that completely disable the car that I *OWN* to be an out-of-bounds policy.

If they want to sunset a FW version and start disabling network/software services -- nav, maps, streaming, etc (as part of an announced policy), that's fine too in order to motivate people to schedule a mutually agreeable time to receive an update. Or at that point, allow people to simply opt-out of any further updates and leave their car as-is, where-is. That's all I'm asking for.

 

[MXWing]

Wow... that was a lot of nothing to parse through. Good grief.

First, I think maybe you've missed my Tesla "street cred" (as it's been put by others) on these matters... perhaps check into some of that before you say I don't know what I'm talking about.

As for Tesla dying, I have no feelings on it either way. They're a company. Sure, they're making a cool product, but as a company they can definitely screw up and fail like any other company. Do I want them to fail? No, of course not... and that's actually why I call them out of their BS, because if the BS continues, they edge towards failure. They can't alienate their most supportive customers. That's bad business all around no matter what the company.

As for grabbing the wheel... um, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I'm saying. How exactly does "Apply light force" stop me from looking at my phone? It's not "Apply light force and look at the road". All it does is get people in the (bad) habit of just tugging the wheel occasionally to appease the system. Again, this does nothing to improve safety. In fact, there has been no change whatsoever in AP-blamed accidents vs vehicle count over time (last I looked at those numbers) since the implementation of the times nags. In fact, I think those numbers may even be a little higher than the glory days of minimal-nag AP1 versions, per mile. (Not sure how public that data is.)

The argument of "you can affect me" is already handled by laws applicable to vehicles in general. If my vehicle passes inspections, emissions, etc... then I'm allowed to use it on the road. Get over it. If it was built before some new law/regulation could affect it... also, get over it.

And yes, I'm saying that the Model 3 braking issue is the only actual safety issue solved via OTA updates. Have you seen a Tesla firmware "git log" ? No? Oh, um... I have. Now let's move on.

I am well aware of your Tesla street cred when it pertains to the vehicles.

Actually running the multi billion dollar business around the vehicle, I am not as confident. That is with full respect intended.

When you admit you are indifferent to them dying, that is a huge fork in the road on how we see things. I NEED them to survive. This is not related at all to my TSLA holdings but I need them to survive because no other auto is innovating at the speed I would like.

Customers on v8, AP1 cars are not their most supportive customers. They were, but not now. The most supportive customers are the ones that can consume 1000 v9 cars per week.

If I was in charge of how they handled software, I would design a UI around responsiveness. It adjust based on the dimensions of the screen and make it customized to the user. Certain widget elements may be non-negotiated and has to be fixed such as size and location of the speedometer.

 

[sorka]

How does this happen? I've never seen an update happen without confirmation. So far, I'm still happily on V8.

Me too and I’m worried. I detest v9 so much that I cancelled plans to upgrade to the p100d when they announced to free ludicrous upgrade for existing Tesla openers. I’ll revist upgrading my P85DL if v9 ever fixes the many many problems it has.

 

[sorka]

My 2012 Signature P85 still has version 8. I enjoy version 9 in the 2017. Got an upgrade notice on the iPhone, but on the dash it says to connect to Wi-Fi, so still no upgrade or upgrade icon.

Another notice shows that the 12 volt battery needs replacement, so it will be interesting to see how the service center handles the old software version. Maybe a car museum would like to purchase the Signature Red for an exhibit.

I replaced my own 12v battery in 10 minutes.

 

[sorka]

No different but a lot less hassle than other automakers issuing a safety related recall and the DMV not allowing you to renew until you prove its complete. This has happened to me a couple times, once for only a software update.

I’m perfectly fine with them updating my v8 with safety related patches....as long as they don’t push v9 which is not an upgrade from v8

 

[sorka]

You know there are people that can downgrade you back to the version you like, right? That is - if you feel really-really strong about this whole thing.

Who? Details please.

 

[sorka]

Tesla can't just change the warranty terms whenever they feel like it though. That term was not in the warrany when I purchased my vehicle:

Voided Warranty
You are responsible for the proper operation of the vehicle and for receiving and maintaining
detailed and accurate records of your vehicle’s maintenance, including the 17-digit Vehicle
Identification Number (“VIN”), servicing center name and address, mileage, date of service or
maintenance and description of service or maintenance items, which should be transferred to
each subsequent purchaser. You may void this New Vehicle Limited Warranty if you do not follow
the specific instructions and recommendations regarding the use and operation of the vehicle
provided in your Model S owner documentation, including, but not limited to:
• Complying with any recall advisories;
• Carrying passengers and cargo within specified load limits; and
• Making all repairs.


I noticed that the newest owner's manual also includes similar verbiage about the requirement to install software updates to keep warranty coverage. The owner's manual that I received when I purchased my car had no such language. Again, Tesla can't just change things like that willy-nilly.

This is why I downloaded my manual back in March 2015 when I bought my s.

 

[sorka]

Target lifecycle for a cell phone is to get a new one every 2 years, throw the old one into the landfill. Are you saying that is what Tesla's are, disposable cars with target 2 year lifecycle? Of course you can squeeze an extra couple of years out of an old iPhone, so Tesla is in the same bucket? I thought Elon's mission was sustainable transportation, not disposable transportation.

My Note 4 is about to hit 5 years. No plans to update any time soon. Of course my wife and daughter must be kept in style with their new XRs so I can’t really afford to upgrade my own phone.

 

[whitex]

Remember Dieselgate? People had to to come for service to get an update that made their engine less powerful and increased their fuel consumption. Supporting V8.0 with safety patches just doesn't make economical sense for Tesla. This will require a lot of resources only to please a handful of people. Would you be willing to pay thousands of dollars to get V8.1 updates?

Supporting anything after you already have the money for the product makes no economical sense (i.e. makes no money, costs money), so it should be factored into the original cost. Next you'll tell me that paying for any warranty repairs is not economical, so Tesla not covering yellowing screens is in the right to ask customers to pay for it - you know, because it's not economical for Tesla to pay.

 

[sorka]

Hank, I had the same thing happen to me... when I called Tesla they confirmed the update was pushed at 2:58 AM on Tuesday evening.

Oh crap. So this is happening. One report could just be an unintentional screen press. But two in such a short period of time. It’s time for me to research rooting.

 

[sorka]

Yep! Also there is a company that specializes in just helping Tesla owners with their MCU. You can upgrade or downgrade hardware or software to most any version.

What’s the company?

 

[sorka]

If your talking about Ingineerix, I don’t believe they are in business any more. Do you have a website to an actual company promoting these services?

 

[MXWing]

My Note 4 is about to hit 5 years. No plans to update any time soon. Of course my wife and daughter must be kept in style with their new XRs so I can’t really afford to upgrade my own phone.

If you can afford a Tesla, you can afford a phone. Especially since many of them provide "free" or subsidized phones with a service contract.

I can't imagine being that far behind but this thread sure woke me. LMAO

*pats iPhone XS Max*

 

[AWDtsla]

Me too and I’m worried. I detest v9 so much that I cancelled plans to upgrade to the p100d when they announced to free ludicrous upgrade for existing Tesla openers. I’ll revist upgrading my P85DL if v9 ever fixes the many many problems it has.

Wish I had the state of mind to do the same, I've made some irreversible decisions waiting my raven P100D

This emergency lane departure assist looks like a driving disaster. Looks like rooting the car will be mandatory.

 

[whitex]

. Anyone can opt out [of updates] and thousands have, maybe not by swiping an icon or some other very easy method, but it is possible.

Did you read even the title of this thread, though you should at least read the original post before responding. Or are you just completely ignorant and think that if you say something enough times, it must be true, regardless of evidence to the contrary?

 

[sorka]

Who is porting the v9 bug fixes to v8?

Why would you need to port bug fixes to a version that never had the bugs in the first place

 

[Droschke]

... 90% of Tesla owners don't even know the difference between V8 and V9.

Care to back the 90% up with facts?

... I'm an adult...

Sure about that? When you said this earlier about the other members and never apologized:

I feel like the entitlement in this thread is insane. Bunch of rich kids with their fancy toys bitching about how they had the world's most advanced software forced upon them. "Mommy! Mommy! Elon forced me to look at a big free map instead of a small one in my $90k sedan." Again, just stop.

 

[sorka]

If you can afford a Tesla, you can afford a phone. Especially since many of them provide "free" or subsidized phones with a service contract.

I can't imagine being that far behind but this thread sure woke me. LMAO

*pats iPhone XS Max*

The honest truth, jokes aside, is that my Note 4 does everything I want, was easy to root, and I can swap batteries in 2 seconds.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Care to back the 90% up with facts?

Given the pace of growth in the fleet, very soon 99% of Teslas will never have had anything prior to V9 running on them. The amount of resources Tesla ought to devote to the problem is approximately zero. This is pretty much always true for popular high tech gadgets over time.