Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[omarsultan]

Not here even though it takes about 2 hours and never goes above 32 kw when supercharging.

Nope. I PROUDLY use up a charge stall to slowly charge my car twice as often (or more) than I used to, and have it set to a higher ending charge out of protest and to get the same range I need as before for full round trips to work and back.

I am all for the protest charging, but from a practical perspective, I don't have all day to hang out at the Superchargers, just to make a point. Taking longer view, as I start looking to replace the '13 Model S in a couple of years, the value of the SC network and its role as a competitive differentiator is greatly diminished.

 

[Leeboy22001]

Do we know if owners with free super charging are the only ones being affected by chargegate ? Anyone recently bought an older CPO recently with free super charging removed having charge gate issues?

 

[PhReAkShO]

Do we know if owners with free super charging are the only ones being affected by chargegate ? Anyone recently bought an older CPO recently with free super charging removed having charge gate issues?

I purchased a 2015 Model S 70D CPO less than a month ago and am definitely having ChargeGate issue. Capacity seems good, I don't think I am getting limited there as it appears to be getting more range than my Model 3 SR+. But supercharging is painful. Had to charge from 22% to 80% on Saturday as I was away. Took an hour and 43 minutes and never really got above 20kW.

 

[doctorwho]

The reason I'm following this thread is because Tesla claims batterygate fires are caused by single modules and researching failures like mine turned up this thread. Cooling pump failures might be causing batterygate - Tesla wasn't even aware it could happen without errors when mine happened.

Interesting, I've had a battery cooling pump fail. I had lots of errors at the time, the car was flat towed to the service centre. There was also water in the (previously replaced) motor and that was also replaced. Maybe that problem threw up the error messages rather than the pump, but I have both voltage capping as well as charge rate limiting

 

[cpa]

If the wishful thinking bears fruit (the batteries are replaced) without knowing the underlying issues, why should we think the chargegate issue will be dropped (by Tesla)? In other words, isn't the obvious reason behind chargegate to repress the underlying batterygate issues?

We have assumed as much, but we do not really know. Batterygate and chargegate are quite likely interdependent, but it may be more suggestive than correlative. Tesla might pinky-swear that they will have a workable solution to restore 50-60% of the reduction in speed and taper to be released "soon" TM This might be good enough to ameliorate most of us.

Ras has said several times no agreement will be reached that doesn't address chargegate. This isn't a negotiation Tesla is being held accountable.

Indeed. But knowing that any litigation is risky if it goes to trial, DJRas' lawyers might recommend that he take Tesla's offer if the offer is lucrative for him and his class, but hinges on conceding any claims on chargegate. He has to look out for his interests first, after all.

 

[lightningltd]

Indeed. But knowing that any litigation is risky if it goes to trial, DJRas' lawyers might recommend that he take Tesla's offer if the offer is lucrative for him and his class, but hinges on conceding any claims on chargegate. He has to look out for his interests first, after all.

Hmmm... HMMMM.....
What's this? Let me get this straight... I sign this paper and keep my mouth shut and you trade me my S85 for that S100 with the same options and Free Supercharging, tax and license included?
"I Aint seen Jack... Where do I sign?"
(rofl) Obviously, this was a JOKE people

 

[islandbayy]

I purchased a 2015 Model S 70D CPO less than a month ago and am definitely having ChargeGate issue. Capacity seems good, I don't think I am getting limited there as it appears to be getting more range than my Model 3 SR+. But supercharging is painful. Had to charge from 22% to 80% on Saturday as I was away. Took an hour and 43 minutes and never really got above 20kW.

I'd bet, given your location, that your battery was potentially cold. Colder the battery the slower the charging.

 

[PhReAkShO]

I'd bet, given your location, that your battery was potentially cold. Colder the battery the slower the charging.

Thanks. Except in the exact same conditions my Model 3 got 100kw. Also the pack should heat as you charge and get faster not stay pinned at 20kw. I’ve driven for 45 minutes and then plugged in and not got over 30kw. Sorry but the “it’s cold” excuse doesn’t work here.

 

[Guy V]

It's working...

Not with everyone. I am retired. Local chargers are near restaurants, grocery stores, pet shops and pet friendly books stores. My doggie and I have nice outings at those locations thoughtful enough to host Superchargers. Fortunately it's still easy around here to find times when the chargers are mostly empty if your schedule is flexible.

 

[Guy V]

Nope. I PROUDLY use up a charge stall to slowly charge my car twice as often (or more) than I used to, and have it set to a higher ending charge out of protest and to get the same range I need as before for full round trips to work and back. When someone asks why so often, I tell them what Tesla did to myself and others.

Charge request to stop at 80% because the charger is busy? "Sorry guys. Thank Tesla. I need the range due to them stealing 16.05% of my battery without warning and slowing my charge rate by over 50%. I would ask Tesla why and if YOU will be affected in the future."

and you never have to worry about penalty fees when it won't go over 97%

 

[aerodyne]

Not with everyone. I am retired. Local chargers are near restaurants, grocery stores, pet shops and pet friendly books stores. My doggie and I have nice outings at those locations thoughtful enough to host Superchargers. Fortunately it's still easy around here to find times when the chargers are mostly empty if your schedule is flexible.

Easy to be flexible, if every day is a Saturday....I wait till all the worker bees rush back to work after lunch, then I have my choice of stalls...

 

[CuriousG]

A local owner just posted this regarding their inquiry into range loss that they experienced as a result of the update:

View attachment 476143

They'll get right on it right after they release the API they promised years ago so custom apps be made.

 

[Spacey73]

I’ve built over a hundred hi amp off road ebike battery packs from scratch, the more high powered ones pull peak 20,000watts from a 1.5 kWh battery pack of 18650 cells 20 parallel cells then 20 series (72v nominal)

the rule of thumb is that just about all cells can take a 1C rating charge to 80% then taper off gradually as the cell approaches 4.2v. C rating is if a cell has 2.5 ahr of capacity then you can charge at 2.5 amps, with a supposedly 81kwh pack with probably 75kwh accessible.... I would expect 75kw charging up to 80% to be just fine.

I don’t get that at all now (S85 with 115k miles) I get around 70kw to 50% then it starts tapering off ending below 30kw as it goes past 80% full. Realistically though this is not too far off healthy charging (1C) just wish it would not taper off so early.

Also I woke up to an uncharted car with 68miles in tank and a school run to do.... wouldn’t except wall charge or granny charge. Usually charges at 00:30hrs to 04:30hrs at 22 miles hr. temp was -2 deg C

 

[SmartElectric]

in the exact same conditions my Model 3 got 100kw. Also the pack should heat as you charge and get faster not stay pinned at 20kw. I’ve driven for 45 minutes and then plugged in and not got over 30kw. Sorry but the “it’s cold” excuse doesn’t work here.

My experience with 500+ supercharges is this :

If I drive HARD (100% accelerator for 5 seconds, 100% regen for 10 seconds and repeat for a few minutes) before arriving at a supercharger in cold (lower than 5C) weather, I get the full 90 kW maximum charging rate at 20% SOC. My charge rate is roughly (10-SOC%) kW. So at 20% SOC, I get 90 kW and dropping until 80% where I rarely get better than 20 kW, ever. The cooling fans run so hard the entire car shakes when charge rate is >60 kW.


If I drive normally for an hour, the maximum power output of the motor is ~25kW in cruise control, which is not nearly sufficient to raise battery pack temperature. In those conditions, when I am supercharging upon arrival from 1 hour highway drive, I get 30 kW maximum charge rate no matter the SOC of the battery.


So yeah, cold matters.

 

[jkennebeck]

If I drive HARD (100% accelerator for 5 seconds, 100% regen for 10 seconds and repeat for a few minutes)

I'd probably get a lot of speeding tickets. 5 seconds at 100% would put me at about 88 mph. Guess I could put it on chill mode and try it.

 

[SmartElectric]

I'd probably get a lot of speeding tickets. 5 seconds at 100% would put me at about 88 mph. Guess I could put it on chill mode and try it.

I can confirm that 5 seconds is enough time to be greatly exceeding speed limit, depending on starting velocity.
Leave yourself some room, accelerate to speed limit, regen to low speed, repeat.
The key is FULL accelerator pedal, and full regen.

This method has reliably worked for me for 4 years to get the highest supercharging rate available no matter the outside temp.

Whereas, my wife (who is the primary Tesla driver) routinely gets 40 kW maximum charge rates on her trips, but she doesn't care at all because the supercharging time is just another excuse to visit nearby shops.

Both methods work, shopping to pass the time, or hammering the accelerator to shorten the time.

 

[PhReAkShO]

My experience with 500+ supercharges is this :

If I drive HARD (100% accelerator for 5 seconds, 100% regen for 10 seconds and repeat for a few minutes) before arriving at a supercharger in cold (lower than 5C) weather, I get the full 90 kW maximum charging rate at 20% SOC. My charge rate is roughly (10-SOC%) kW. So at 20% SOC, I get 90 kW and dropping until 80% where I rarely get better than 20 kW, ever. The cooling fans run so hard the entire car shakes when charge rate is >60 kW.


If I drive normally for an hour, the maximum power output of the motor is ~25kW in cruise control, which is not nearly sufficient to raise battery pack temperature. In those conditions, when I am supercharging upon arrival from 1 hour highway drive, I get 30 kW maximum charge rate no matter the SOC of the battery.


So yeah, cold matters.

I don't think I said cold doesn't matter. What I said is my Model 3 in the same conditions could pull 100kw. So it obviously was not so cold or it also would have been affected.

 

[Droschke]

I'd probably get a lot of speeding tickets. 5 seconds at 100% would put me at about 88 mph. Guess I could put it on chill mode and try it.

How many times have you replaced your drivetrain?

 

[lightningltd]

How many times have you replaced your drivetrain?

I have been through 4. The last one simply bricked the whole car. Total inverter failure along with the motor.
It set off errors in virtually EVERY system.

 

[aerodyne]

I have been through 4. The last one simply bricked the whole car. Total inverter failure along with the motor.
It set off errors in virtually EVERY system.

I think you should get a dual motor so you can carry a spare...