Yes, but that's why Teslafi breaks out what was used vs what was added which in itself is the charge efficiency.
I went back and spot checked a dozen charges over 3 years and my P85D shows 309.97 wh / mile exactly on every one of them.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Yes, but that's why Teslafi breaks out what was used vs what was added which in itself is the charge efficiency.
I went back and spot checked a dozen charges over 3 years and my P85D shows 309.97 wh / mile exactly on every one of them.
Right. The issue isn't the battery. The issue is the software won't fully charge the battery. You need to approach it from that angle because those are the facts.
DJRas
Member
Yes, the ScanMyTesla RM and SoC exactly match the display on the dash (with rounding). TMSpy data does NOT match the screen SoC %. (As shown in my table). I also show corresponding photos of the screen, ScanMyTesla screenshots and TMSpy screenshots. TMSpy author DOES include the 4kWh buffer in both full pack and remaining values. Which is why if you get near zero miles or % ypu will still see 4+kWh remaining on TMSpy.
DJRas
Member
DJRas
Member
Mine is part number 1014114-00-D on 11/2014 S 85 and has been seriously impacted. I have 136,000 miles. A friend with M05/2014 S 85 with 210,000 same battery part number but unaffected.
He even has more Supercharging kWh than me.
faughtz
Model S P85DL
faughtz
Model S P85DL
With charging and discharging discipline, I can make a Li Ion battery last a very long time.
Maybe even eight years.
Maybe this is step one in a multi step management plan.
I bought my 70D, built January 2016 with 53,000miles, at the beginning of June at a Prestige Car auction in Melbourne and drove it 1,500km home to NSW, Australia. When charging to 100% before setting off I was somewhat disappointed to only see 203 miles/326km range on typical. Much more degradation than the 6 to 7% I had expected. On the trip I saw supercharger speeds of 620km/h and 116kw/h. A week later at home visiting the local supercharger I got 186miles /302km at 100% and speeds of 70kw/320km/h. Having had the car for 2 weeks of course I thought the battery was dying...
Tesla was slow responding to my calls but eventually the manager rang back and said my battery was within normal parameters, that it was due to the software update which created a bigger buffer for cooling and helped extend battery life.
I calculate from supercharger data and range that I have 57kwh capacity left, so effectively have a 60D now. Still better than my Chevy Volt big time but not what I had expected. Australia being warm and flat I’m still seeing 380km in projected range at 65miles/h but then superchargers are a long way apart. So yeah, this basically sucks and my Tesla honeymoon is not as starstruck as it could have been. I love my MS and would have bought it even if it had been a 60, so no regrets, but I do hope they are working this and there will be some sort of solution to get some range back...
Tesla was slow responding to my calls but eventually the manager rang back and said my battery was within normal parameters, that it was due to the software update which created a bigger buffer for cooling and helped extend battery life.
I calculate from supercharger data and range that I have 57kwh capacity left, so effectively have a 60D now. Still better than my Chevy Volt big time but not what I had expected. Australia being warm and flat I’m still seeing 380km in projected range at 65miles/h but then superchargers are a long way apart. So yeah, this basically sucks and my Tesla honeymoon is not as starstruck as it could have been. I love my MS and would have bought it even if it had been a 60, so no regrets, but I do hope they are working this and there will be some sort of solution to get some range back...
The proximate cause is the update
The primary motivation to do the update has to be
because of an issue seen in some of the batteries.
1 Warranty dodge
2 Safety
3 There is no three
Dutchmeeuw
I am sad to read you have decided to sell the car. But I get it.
Will you get another one?
*
I wonder, if you might please update your
Original Post with a synopsis of what we know so far?
It would be extremely helpful for people
A link to the Google Sheet
(where everyone should enter their data!)
Tesla Degradation FW 2019.16.2
Some crowd sourcing makes sense for the writeup?
How-to on various/best way to get the data, or link to that
List of people willing to help less savvy users understand, etc.
Whatever else people here think should be there.
Thanks.
I am sad to read you have decided to sell the car. But I get it.
Will you get another one?
*
I wonder, if you might please update your
Original Post with a synopsis of what we know so far?
It would be extremely helpful for people
A link to the Google Sheet
(where everyone should enter their data!)
Tesla Degradation FW 2019.16.2
Some crowd sourcing makes sense for the writeup?
How-to on various/best way to get the data, or link to that
List of people willing to help less savvy users understand, etc.
Whatever else people here think should be there.
Thanks.
Simple answer is no - not all batteries with similar type numbers or in same serial number range are affected.
Based on my own experience and knowing the backgrouns being preventing fires I have a theory:
In case there is significant imbalance between cells the maximum charge voltage is reduced until balance is acquired. This way there is less risk for an overvoltage for a single cell or set of parallel cells. When balance is acquired then maximum charge voltage is restored.
The overvoltage situation can happen for several reasons, Li plating being one of those. Others are for example cell damage and charging habits - or like in my case swapping a bad module when reconditioning a battery.
Just speculation but educated speculation...
I contacted Tesla for the 30% supercharge speed reduction. I gave them all the data I collected from my recent charge to indicate that indeed the speed has dropped significantly, on all charge levels. I give them a comparison of the charge speed before the recent software update.
Battery was warm and preconditioned.
Charging starts at 12%SoC with 115kW, but cannot hold it longer than 2 seconds. After 1m20s the charge rate is already below 100kW, at 14% only charge.
Taper is very strong, only 55kW charge rate at 50% SoC.
The estimated time indicator is off by 30%, consistent with the 30% reduced charge speeds I see all across the charge.
Adding 163km of range thus took me 28min, way too long.
Tesla's response: everything is normal, we don't see any problem. If you want more info, it'll cost you 110€+TVA for 1h of talk time with our diagnostics technician.
I replied that this response is completely lacking, and that I want more infor on how and why this drop in speed happened. It is entirely unacceptable that they diminish functionality so severly through software update, and I'll continue to pursue more information.
Battery was warm and preconditioned.
Charging starts at 12%SoC with 115kW, but cannot hold it longer than 2 seconds. After 1m20s the charge rate is already below 100kW, at 14% only charge.
Taper is very strong, only 55kW charge rate at 50% SoC.
The estimated time indicator is off by 30%, consistent with the 30% reduced charge speeds I see all across the charge.
Adding 163km of range thus took me 28min, way too long.
Tesla's response: everything is normal, we don't see any problem. If you want more info, it'll cost you 110€+TVA for 1h of talk time with our diagnostics technician.
I replied that this response is completely lacking, and that I want more infor on how and why this drop in speed happened. It is entirely unacceptable that they diminish functionality so severly through software update, and I'll continue to pursue more information.
Verdict from Tesla technician how the full capacity was restored after "sudden loss of range" situation.
This confirms that when BMS detects faults it sets various limits to usage of batteryas an precaution action. In my case these limits were set automatically and later manually restored after a battery warranty replacement to a refurbished battery. So removal of the limits can be done without new firmware just using the remote diagnostics connection to the vehicle.
From my initial email this took some three weeks to be resolved. No other communications than this "service receipt" to appear in my email box.
This confirms that when BMS detects faults it sets various limits to usage of batteryas an precaution action. In my case these limits were set automatically and later manually restored after a battery warranty replacement to a refurbished battery. So removal of the limits can be done without new firmware just using the remote diagnostics connection to the vehicle.
From my initial email this took some three weeks to be resolved. No other communications than this "service receipt" to appear in my email box.
Selling your car? You can't do that after you started this whole thread! We'll need you on page 500 or so to make comments ...
If the BMS detects significant imbalanced in the battery pack, that data is stored or transferred to Tesla. They can tell which module is effected. That battery module should be pulled and a new module should be put in it's place. At that time the BMS will rebalance the pack (overtime). That is the way it should be handled by Tesla...…….please correct me if I am wrong.
Owners of affected vehicles who have posted CAN bus data have shown that the battery cells are in near perfect balance.
eg @faughtz's post #44 - Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
Avg cell voltage was 4.194V at 100% in Feb '17, now 4.070V @ 97.6% with only 4mV imbalance (negligible).
Yes, after a charge eg within 5mV or so which is a very good balance.
Anyhow would need to see the cell group voltages when under heavy discharge/load to understand the bigger picture.
As you can see the response from Tesla there are certain conditions triggering the limits. Its unlikely to be a single cause for all affected but rather several different reasons that we should look all individually.
Edit: when looking at different fault conditions this old tesla patent may become handy in understanding the triggering conditions:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/d4/c7/2b/48b50249e2c13e/US8866444.pdf
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