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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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I understand your point. But you should be aware that a much more capable new Model S than your old P85 is just over $80K. And unless you seriously care about the interior room, a much cheaper new Model 3 is in every way better than your car.
It's not just interior room though. The Model S is better than a 3 in many ways. You get an IC, better wood trim, better steering wheel ... and bigger wheels that look much cooler! But the space in a P85 is downright cavernous compared to the 3. The frunk in the 3 can hold what, a stack of magazines? :D
 
30% extra is what I do as well. My winter consumption by itself is 30% higher than summer. Given this winter is the first with the capped batteries (along with other battery warming energy demands), we are in a much bigger surprise.
I've just come out of an Australian winter with a capped battery. It's not good. I effectively have 62kWhr of useable range, I have a weekly 340km commute (each way) and have had a brief 10-15 minute supercharger top-up en route, especially in winter or with a headwind, as the drive is uphill (320m over 340km), especially as I was trying to avoid a regular <10% SOC on arrival. I now have a mandatory stop en route. Charging to an indicated 100% (equivalent to my old 85% takes about 1 hour to 1 hour 15 minutes. That's even more of an issue in Australia where there are few Supercharging stations and only 4-6 maximum bays in each Supercharging station. Melbourne a city of over 4 million people, only has 4 Superchargers, located at one single point, for instance. There's a second Supercharger about to open at a different location, however, 1:15 at a Supercharger will not make me popular

Is there anyone with a capped voltage that hasn't supercharge much?
 
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I understand your point. But you should be aware that a much more capable new Model S than your old P85 is just over $80K. And unless you seriously care about the interior room, a much cheaper new Model 3 is in every way better than your car.

The 3 has that ugly bolted on tablet in the center. No power lift gate, heated steering wheel or air suspension.

and the battery warranty is mileage limited to 125k
 
It means they have no cards and are fighting a delaying action.

Part of me wants to believe they are holding out for cheaper battery replacements. The Nurburgring Tesla probably has 21700 cells in the pack - not even a brand new Raven P100D can 250kW supercharge yet but the smaller 80kWh Model 3 does it no problem. Tesla has a new pack / pack cooling design that they fit into an older S chassis for testing. Those cells are cheaper and handle heat better - and chargegate seems to be all about thermal limits.

If they aren't delaying for cheaper battery replacements, they're just accepting their fate b y delaying and hoping for a miracle later. Delays just let more people become infected by the malware update and join the fighta against them, and gives media a chance to pick this up.
I hope that this part of you is correct. I'd be more than happy to wait if Tesla told me that they were working on a permanent solution, as, I'm sure, would most people. The problem is that they've said nothing
 
And unless you seriously care about the interior room, a much cheaper new Model 3 is in every way better than your car.
I was attracted to the “in every way better than your car” but I note the M3 is:
Made of metal, not aluminium
Is a saloon, not a hatchback (and the rain runs straight off the trunk lid into the trunk)
Has much smaller boot and Frunk
Does not come with free Supercharging
Only has Live Traffic on Premium Interior
Only has Self Park with FSD
Only has Lane Change with FSD
Doesn’t have a power tailgate
Needs a key card, to be placed on the central console,(where it slips off as there is no holder) before the car will start.
Has those stupid door handles that everyone struggles with.

But it does have FAR better efficiency and range.

(Having read this it is in real danger of being viewed as snippy; that was not my intention - it’s meant to be mildly amusing)
 
I've just come out of an Australian winter with a capped battery. It's not good. I effectively have 62kWhr of useable range, I have a weekly 340km commute (each way) and have had a brief 10-15 minute supercharger top-up en route, especially in winter or with a headwind, as the drive is uphill (320m over 340km), especially as I was trying to avoid a regular <10% SOC on arrival. I now have a mandatory stop en route. Charging to an indicated 100% (equivalent to my old 85% takes about 1 hour to 1 hour 15 minutes. That's even more of an issue in Australia where there are few Supercharging stations and only 4-6 maximum bays in each Supercharging station. Melbourne a city of over 4 million people, only has 4 Superchargers, located at one single point, for instance. There's a second Supercharger about to open at a different location, however, 1:15 at a Supercharger will not make me popular

Is there anyone with a capped voltage that hasn't supercharge much?
Me! Over 3.5 years I only supercharge perhaps 10% of the time. Mainly long journeys or the occasional top up if I’m passing a Supercharger. Battery now capped to 54.5kWh Useable. Not good. I am not charge limited, (but only because I stopped downloading updates before they got me!)
 
I've just come out of an Australian winter with a capped battery. It's not good. I effectively have 62kWhr of useable range, I have a weekly 340km commute (each way) and have had a brief 10-15 minute supercharger top-up en route, especially in winter or with a headwind, as the drive is uphill (320m over 340km), especially as I was trying to avoid a regular <10% SOC on arrival. I now have a mandatory stop en route. Charging to an indicated 100% (equivalent to my old 85% takes about 1 hour to 1 hour 15 minutes. That's even more of an issue in Australia where there are few Supercharging stations and only 4-6 maximum bays in each Supercharging station. Melbourne a city of over 4 million people, only has 4 Superchargers, located at one single point, for instance. There's a second Supercharger about to open at a different location, however, 1:15 at a Supercharger will not make me popular

Is there anyone with a capped voltage that hasn't supercharge much?

This was my worry from the start back in May so you are validating my concerns and frustrations. I in fact have been to Australia so I get where your coming from too.

I would say get vocal in social media and find a news agency that can cover your story and get exposure. My battery is getting replaced end of this month but my success was due to working through local service center. And I had also just gotten my used Tesla from Tesla in May. Good luck my friend.
 
This was my worry from the start back in May so you are validating my concerns and frustrations. I in fact have been to Australia so I get where your coming from too.

I would say get vocal in social media and find a news agency that can cover your story and get exposure. My battery is getting replaced end of this month but my success was due to working through local service center. And I had also just gotten my used Tesla from Tesla in May. Good luck my friend.
Tesla is in some turmoil here. Just prior to the Model 3 launch they downsized considerably and lost most of their experienced staff. The remaining staff are trying as hard as the can but the loss of corporate knowledge and experience shows. They've closed the customer service lounge and the staff and barely accessible. They are totally preoccupied delivering several thousand Model 3 back-orders. There will be an appropriate time to go public, it probably wouldn't be helpful for either Tesla Australia or us customers at the moment. The Model 3 owners won't be too happy with my 1 hour charging stops.
The problem here is our trump loving coal loving Government that is totally indifferent to EVs. During our recent election, they even tried a scare campaign claiming that EVs couldn't tow and that EVs were going to mean no 'tradies utes' (utilities) and no more boats! There's very little alternative charging infrastructure, although that's just starting to slowly change. There are still unsold 2011 gen 1 Leafs languishing at Nissan dealerships.
 
Except for the first, all would require customers give Tesla even more money. That does not make customers whole, that makes customers spend more. Not okay. The only remedies that are acceptable, in my opinion, are a warranty battery replacement or a cash award equal to the retail cost of a new battery. Anything short of that benefits Tesla and is not acceptable. Tesla cannot be allowed to make even more money from their unjust behavior.

What you need to understand is that my Model S was a once-in-a-lifetime purchase. Do you know what 150% trade-in value would be on my car? $40,000. Applied towards a S100 would mean I still have to spend another $50k-$60k. Some of us do not have that kind of disposable income. I cannot buy another $100k+ vehicle at the drop of a hat. This was my once-in-a-lifetime indulgent spend. There should be remedies for people like me, surely I cannot be the only one who cannot afford the remedies you've suggested.

EXACTLY. Many of us stretched to purchase these cars-- maybe not in total assets, but in amounts we would otherwise spend on a car.
I shrugged and kicked the dirt at my bad timing to purchase right before AWD and Autopilot. My eyes have rolled hard up into my head many times over the years when folks casually suggested I should "just" upgrade. I made the case against many who DID complain, pointing out that they, like me, got the car I agreed to get for the price I paid (hence the term sales AGREEMENT). But I did not agree to, nor consent to, the specifications of that car being monkeyed around with absent my consent and absent any respectful explanation as to how and why.

This is not like missing out on upgrades or price changes. These are changes to the fundamental EXPERIENCE we all bought into. A wave of a wand won't fix batteries and an offer to double down on our money won't make whole the initial purchase.

I'm expecting another class action will arise over the MCU eMMC failures as well (also stacking up over time) -- which is the same root cause: Tesla knows there is a problem and refuses to be transparent about it or remedy it, content to just tell their customers to pound sand or pay more in repairs--- but oh, there's time for games and movies! Shiny things don't impress lawyers and courts.

Tesla is not marshaling their resources properly and I'm seeing owner after owner transformed from fan to plaintiff. In many cases, they're original owners, like me, who helped build this company with our enthusiasm but are now being ignored or pushed aside like inconvenient old friends who don't fit Tesla's new lifestyle.

It's disheartening and sad to see looming on the horizon the potential of this company being gambled away. I expected better.

I have not yet personally suffered from any of these issues (that I know of), but clearly I'm in the range that does. And yeah, I'll be very transparent and public about it if/when it happens. My battery has been babied quite deliberately.
 
I understand your point. But you should be aware that a much more capable new Model S than your old P85 is just over $80K.

It's always puzzling when people say they understand what's being said and then immediately imply the opposite.

No it appears you do not understand. Either you did not read what @AmpedRealtor wrote, in which case please read it again, or you do not understand his point. Here is what he said.
... my Model S was a once-in-a-lifetime purchase. Do you know what 150% trade-in value would be on my car? $40,000. Applied towards a S100 would mean I still have to spend another $50k-$60k. Some of us do not have that kind of disposable income.

@AmpedRealtor clearly states he does not want to give any more money to Tesla and that his "Model S was a once-in-a-lifetime purchase". Pretty clear, isn't it?
 
I think "in every way" is an opinion that may vary. I prefer the door handles, the styling, the hatchback, separate instrument cluster and aluminum body on a model S vs a model 3. However if I had to buy new today it would be a performance model 3 mainly due to the improved battery tech vs a model S.

There is no evidence that the batteries in 3's are better than S. Model 3 is a new car and no one knows how its battery will hold up in 4 years. Remember, when the S came to the market, it was supposed to have the best battery technology and we now know how it all turned out for us.
 
Tractor-trailer brakes use compressed air, not hydraulics, so no brake fluid to burn.
from a while back...was going to say lots of hydraulic fluids in the lifts if it wasn't already mentioned regarding that trailer fire

I understand your point. But you should be aware that a much more capable new Model S than your old P85 is just over $80K. And unless you seriously care about the interior room, a much cheaper new Model 3 is in every way better than your car.
A P85 RWD is not like much a new AWD in any way. AWD is not capable of quite few things a P85 is(and vice versa....but I don't miss the versa part)
I like my P85:p. AWD are semi boring

oh, I just paid my final 2 car payments off yesterday too!!!!
like @AmpedRealtor it was a stretch ;>
 
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EXACTLY. Many of us stretched to purchase these cars-- maybe not in total assets, but in amounts we would otherwise spend on a car.
I shrugged and kicked the dirt at my bad timing to purchase right before AWD and Autopilot. My eyes have rolled hard up into my head many times over the years when folks casually suggested I should "just" upgrade. I made the case against many who DID complain, pointing out that they, like me, got the car I agreed to get for the price I paid (hence the term sales AGREEMENT). But I did not agree to, nor consent to, the specifications of that car being monkeyed around with absent my consent and absent any respectful explanation as to how and why.

This is not like missing out on upgrades or price changes. These are changes to the fundamental EXPERIENCE we all bought into. A wave of a wand won't fix batteries and an offer to double down on our money won't make whole the initial purchase.

I'm expecting another class action will arise over the MCU eMMC failures as well (also stacking up over time) -- which is the same root cause: Tesla knows there is a problem and refuses to be transparent about it or remedy it, content to just tell their customers to pound sand or pay more in repairs--- but oh, there's time for games and movies! Shiny things don't impress lawyers and courts.

Tesla is not marshaling their resources properly and I'm seeing owner after owner transformed from fan to plaintiff. In many cases, they're original owners, like me, who helped build this company with our enthusiasm but are now being ignored or pushed aside like inconvenient old friends who don't fit Tesla's new lifestyle.

It's disheartening and sad to see looming on the horizon the potential of this company being gambled away. I expected better.

I have not yet personally suffered from any of these issues (that I know of), but clearly I'm in the range that does. And yeah, I'll be very transparent and public about it if/when it happens. My battery has been babied quite deliberately.

Many thanks for your thoughtful post. Agree with every sentence you have written. Bravo.
 
I was attracted to the “in every way better than your car” but I note the M3 is:
Made of metal, not aluminium
Is a saloon, not a hatchback (and the rain runs straight off the trunk lid into the trunk)
Has much smaller boot and Frunk
Does not come with free Supercharging
Only has Live Traffic on Premium Interior
Only has Self Park with FSD
Only has Lane Change with FSD
Doesn’t have a power tailgate
Needs a key card, to be placed on the central console,(where it slips off as there is no holder) before the car will start.
Has those stupid door handles that everyone struggles with.

But it does have FAR better efficiency and range.

(Having read this it is in real danger of being viewed as snippy; that was not my intention - it’s meant to be mildly amusing)

(Having read this it is in real danger of being viewed as snippy; that was not my intention - it’s meant to be mildly amusing)

Don't be concerned to state your opinion. We love your posts, especially the humor parts you add every now and then.
 
I have not yet personally suffered from any of these issues (that I know of), but clearly I'm in the range that does. My battery has been babied quite deliberately.

As we have seen in this thread, there is no pattern to those that "baby" or "abuse" their battery.
Both in quotes because there could be many methods of charging, driving and conditions that affect the battery pack.

Our 2013 Tesla S 85 has been charged to 90% daily, 100% many times per month, hundreds of supercharges, driven to <%10 many times and otherwise just "used" and not babied.

Not affected (yet) either. I would advise owners to not believe the choices they make on how to charge and drive within reasonable limits make any difference to the likelihood of being chosen by Tesla for capping.
 
I've just come out of an Australian winter with a capped battery. It's not good. I effectively have 62kWhr of useable range, I have a weekly 340km commute (each way)

Thanks for highlighting the winter impact. It will be even a more serious issue for those of us, the capped owners, in the bitter cold winters. I've experienced extra 30% consumption in those days when the temp is well below freezing for weeks at the time and with rain, snow, wind and slushy conditions. The first winter for the capped owners will be an eye opener to say the least.
 
Tesla is in some turmoil here. Just prior to the Model 3 launch they downsized considerably and lost most of their experienced staff. The remaining staff are trying as hard as the can but the loss of corporate knowledge and experience shows. They've closed the customer service lounge and the staff and barely accessible. They are totally preoccupied delivering several thousand Model 3 back-orders. There will be an appropriate time to go public, it probably wouldn't be helpful for either Tesla Australia or us customers at the moment. The Model 3 owners won't be too happy with my 1 hour charging stops.
The problem here is our trump loving coal loving Government that is totally indifferent to EVs. During our recent election, they even tried a scare campaign claiming that EVs couldn't tow and that EVs were going to mean no 'tradies utes' (utilities) and no more boats! There's very little alternative charging infrastructure, although that's just starting to slowly change. There are still unsold 2011 gen 1 Leafs languishing at Nissan dealerships.

Well that is too bad but i totally get the drain on resources i can tell it even here in Mn with the local service center. I would keep following this thread and wait then for the lawsuit IMHO.