-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
-
On today's TMC Podcast, we ask the question "What is the Tesla Cybercab?". Join us on YouTube live at 1PM and participate in the chat.
Standard Warranty Revealed
- Thread starter 3lectronica
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Model S
Actually, if there are failures in the aluminum frame due to bad welds, that would be by *far* the most expensive part of the car to replace, due to labor costs alone. Remember the guy who had his Roadster front end completely replaced days before the warranty expired....
With labor and Ranger costs to consider, I'd pay that price for an extended warranty. Of course, knowing Tesla, they might charge an arm and a leg instead, but I hope not.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Wow! Quite a ripoff; wouldn't it be cheaper to fix problems most of which would be minor? My experience was with a 2005 325i.
tnawara
Member
Of course, extended warranty cost depends on when you get it. Was the $6K right before the original warranty expired?
Yes -- it's comprehensive, bumper-to-bumper, doubling the original warranty. This car has had a lot of work done on it, and I'm not convinced we're done. And, every time BMW does anything meaningful, the bill seems to have 4 digits in it (which then go away). Parts and service is a huge money-maker for these dealerships -- no wonder they are uninterested in selling EVs!
Interesting. I think it's unfortunate that Tesla doesn't try to be better than the competition when it comes to the warranty terms. The way the warranties are phrased means that Tesla can argue that even if the battery is at 1% capacity and 1% power after 1 year, this wouldn't have occured if the battery hadn't been used, so it's not covered. I think Tesla really needs to show people that they actually stand by their product, and set firm limits based on their projections. Even a fairly minimal limit of 60% energy capacity/60% power would be better than nothing.
My prediction: Either Tesla will have to replace any battery significantly worse than 70% at the end of the warranty period, or, they need to set aside a good chunk of money for lawyers, to disprove that battery degredation for each specific battery was not a result of an inherent defect. Either way, Tesla will have to spend money on the issue, but the money isn't spent in a way that furthers EV adoption. Only firm limits can do that.
Last edited:
IANAL, but I believe that battery degradation that is markedly worse than standard profiles would, absent some proof of negligence to the battery, be covered under the warranty under normal interpretation of US law. The only way that a battery could degrade so much more quickly was because it was defective.
The way the warranty is phrased is ambiguous enough that it's more likely than not that you will see court cases. If someone has 70% after 4 years/100 000 miles, that would be more degradation than one would expect, but is the battery defective?
What about the Model S taxis? A taxi can travel more than 500 000 miles in 8 years. If the battery dies before 8 years have passed, will Tesla say "The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered". Technically, they're not saying that the battery must have any energy storage capacity left... I think Tesla has really dropped the ball on the battery warranty terms. Even if Tesla is the nicest company in the world and consideres basically everything a defect to be replaced under warranty, and there's not a single issue with a single Model S battery, anyway, the warranty terms are pretty bad. They will draw a lot of negative attention, just as the Nissan Leaf warranty has drawn a lot of negative attention. (The Nissan Leaf warranty has drawn a lot of negative publicity here in Norway, at least.)
If Tesla wants to replace every fossil car with an electric car, they need to be focusing on important stuff like battery degradation, not trivial stuff like rear seat lighting and whatnot. Actually, the way Tesla has (not) handled the warranty issue makes me nervous to buy a Tesla. It seems more and more like a conscious evasion, and that they're hoping no one will notice that the warranty terms are such that you will get a new battery under warranty if, and only if, Tesla is in the mood to give you a new battery. If battery degradation is for every Model S battery greater than expected over time (something you can't quickly replicate in a lab), Tesla will back slowly away from the Model S and say "battery degradation is to be expected", and then you're out of luck. If you thought you were investing in a car that would provide you for transportation for many years, well, you were wrong.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Roadster owners have not experienced a problem with Tesla regarding needed battery replacements. So while in theory, you have a point - in practice, it's not how they have operated. You forget they have a proven track record on this issue.
Presumably because battery degradation depends on usage and environment. I'm sure that someone who floors the car at every start is going to have a different battery degradation rate than someone who drives to the energy metre (to take two of the outlier cases).
I doubt it's because their afraid. More likely it's because for the numbers to be accurate they would have to provide a long list of conditions vs. warrantied battery life. This would probably turn more people off ("Oh, yeah, Tesla has a battery warranty but there are so many conditions attached that they might as well not have one") than the current ambiguous statements, which are similar to every other EV.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Why do you assume they are 'afraid'? As Jerry notes, there are plenty of reasons dependent upon driving record. How would you have them word something like that?
SCW-Greg
Active Member
Trying to warranty a specific level of wear on the battery, is like trying to warranty a specific level of wear on an engine, or a set of tires. Don't think I've ever seen that happen before.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
An observation concerning batteries and the travails of being an "early adopter". I purchased the 160th Honda Insight manufactured in January 2000. My first large battery died in early 2004, which Honda replaced free of charge, including both the battery control module and the motor control module. It was covered under warranty at the time. Speculation was that the software was depleting the battery down too far for increased performance (sticker said 70MPG highway!), which shortened the life. My second battery died in June 2011, so it lasted 7 years. Honda retails the battery for $2,700 and a private outfit in New Jersey will sell you a "BetterBattery" replacement for $1,800. Honda was gracious enough to sell me my 3rd battery for $900, not sure why, maybe cause I'm a good customer, maybe cause there were so few Insight's sold that it doesn't matter. The car has a total of 125,000 miles after 12+ years as of today.
My understanding is that the Prius line in general doesn't suffer from the same level of battery "required replacement" issues that Honda has, for whatever reason. Surely there are scholarly studies you could find on the web that go into detail. I realize that the Model S uses Lithium versus Nickel, so we are dealing with a different animal here. Having said that, batteries are a tough product to perfect, lots of variables go into what their lifetimes will be. If your cell phone runs longer than 2 years without serious degradation, you are on the higher end of the curve, at least thats my experience.
Moral of the story is that if you are an "early adopter", as all Model S buyers are, there are certain risks involved. The Roadster certainly "bought down" some level of risk concerning the batteries. I would agree with the previous poster who was looking for more clarity concerning the battery warranty. The Insight message boards (yes they existed back in the stone age) eventually turned into "battery warranty/replacement" discussion boards, and continue to this day as I found out when I had to discover the BetterBattery. Hopefully Tesla gets the battery "right", whatever that ends up meaning over time.
The other software stuff mentioned on the punch list I wouldn't be too worried about. As a software guy, I can tell you that software problems can be fixed with new revisions, as there will be many over time I'm sure with the Model S. I would love to get a Model S, and may do so if finances allow when my Insight finally dies. Until then, I just live vicariously through others on this forum. And as a Tesla investor I hope to see the company and it's customers do well. I suspect that you will be hearing/reading more about the battery and it's warranty over time, and I will certainly keep my fingers crossed that someone who can build spaceships can get a battery right.
RT
My understanding is that the Prius line in general doesn't suffer from the same level of battery "required replacement" issues that Honda has, for whatever reason. Surely there are scholarly studies you could find on the web that go into detail. I realize that the Model S uses Lithium versus Nickel, so we are dealing with a different animal here. Having said that, batteries are a tough product to perfect, lots of variables go into what their lifetimes will be. If your cell phone runs longer than 2 years without serious degradation, you are on the higher end of the curve, at least thats my experience.
Moral of the story is that if you are an "early adopter", as all Model S buyers are, there are certain risks involved. The Roadster certainly "bought down" some level of risk concerning the batteries. I would agree with the previous poster who was looking for more clarity concerning the battery warranty. The Insight message boards (yes they existed back in the stone age) eventually turned into "battery warranty/replacement" discussion boards, and continue to this day as I found out when I had to discover the BetterBattery. Hopefully Tesla gets the battery "right", whatever that ends up meaning over time.
The other software stuff mentioned on the punch list I wouldn't be too worried about. As a software guy, I can tell you that software problems can be fixed with new revisions, as there will be many over time I'm sure with the Model S. I would love to get a Model S, and may do so if finances allow when my Insight finally dies. Until then, I just live vicariously through others on this forum. And as a Tesla investor I hope to see the company and it's customers do well. I suspect that you will be hearing/reading more about the battery and it's warranty over time, and I will certainly keep my fingers crossed that someone who can build spaceships can get a battery right.
RT
Similar threads
