I'm in Buffalo and the weather here is always... amazing, especially winter. In my MYP (I think 2" lower than the MYLR) I use chill mode when driving in snowy or icy conditions. I'm on Michelin snow tires, they are pretty good, especially in rainy/slippery conditions. Last winter when we got track mode, I used 60f/40r bias, no regen (or sometimes low regen) and on chill mode, with the steering in sport (which I highly recommend and no one has mentioned this so far) and the car worked great in all sorts of weather. This winter, I'm using chill mode + sport steering and the car handles great in all sorts of crappy weather. If I were to bet my life on it, like last year near the Toronto airport in an icy blizzard, I was using my track mode option I mentioned. But if it's not the WORST CASE scenario, or going downhill on a mountain pass, chill + sport steering works great. Just my 2 cold pennies
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Snow, Ice, and regenerative braking
- Thread starter E Thompson
- Start date
The PMY is 1.1cm lower than the LRMY (a little less than 1/2 inch lower (0.433 inch) lower; that is all.)
I knew someone would correct me lol, thank you. I was actually thinking about this the other day how much taller a MYLR looked when supercharging right next to me. I will snap a pic next time, thats why I assumed 2"s. He was on 19" gemenis with regular tires, I am on 19 inch wheels with snow tires on.
1) You certainly do have to concentrate more, but if you're used to one pedal driving and you're easing off the go pedal and you break traction. ease back on to the go pedal. Another reason why you drive slowly, apply controls in slow motion and leave a lot of distance if you're following another car.
2) Regen braking does have traction control, which, if a wheel starts slipping due to regen, will reduce or eliminate regen automatically. Go to a big empty icy parking lot and experiment with various scenarios. TC can also use the brakes selectively, with ABS, if one wheel breaks free. While ABS is for brakes, if you stand on the brakes to the point the wheels stop turning, you lose traction control, ABS braking (and steering) as both systems think you have stopped. Lot's of online videos of cars sliding down hills with the brake lights on, where many times, taking your foot off the brake would allow you to at least regain steering again.
3) Regen does have a rear bias, but either slippery conditions or freezing temperatures cause newer cars that don't have adjustable regen to enter "snow mode" with a 50/50 balance.
There's also the nuclear option of shifting to neutral to eliminate regen and traction control completely and taking your chances with the brakes and ABS. I find that more dangerous than working with the cars systems in most situations.
Last edited:
It is very easy to write about letting go of the brake pedal when sliding. It is very very difficult to do when you in a car, trying to stop and it's sliding. You see the car in front of you and you know you are going to crash into it. It is next to impossible to take your foot off the brake and feather it. Even harder to do that with the accelerator and regen.
Watch some professional Rally or race drivers in situations where they are too fast. They do the exact same, they push the brake hard. You see their brake lights on, wheels locked up sliding into the tree or barrier. Even professional drivers panic and slam on the brake in these situations.
Fully agree, it is hard not to panic when you are sliding down a hill. Being aware helps a little, experience helps a lot.
David, zero regen is not what you think it is. Regen is just engine braking that happens to be stronger than most ICE cars' engine braking. It sounds like you think zero regen would get a Tesla to behave like an ICE car when you take your foot off the accelerator - mild engine braking. That's not what happens - a Tesla can coast for miles when regen is fully disabled. That little resistance is very unnatural, it feels like the car is accelerating. It forces you to use your brakes almost constantly just to avoid rear-ending people or coming out of an intersection in the opposite lane.
"Low" regen makes the car behave like the average ICE car when lifting off the accelerator. Yes it's too bad a lot of people don't have it.
Actually, this is not correct. If you are oversteering (fishtail), the best way to gain traction back is to gently press the accelerator a little. This makes the car's weight shift toward the rear wheels, which gives them more traction. While Tesla does have a decent amount going on in their stability program, this is one trick they don't use, and it's the most important one.
If you are understeering (plowing straight ahead), the best way to regain traction is to let off the accelerator a little, using engine braking to shift weight to the front wheels to give them more grip. If you're already doing that, then step two is to reduce your steering input. You've asked the car to turn more than is possible, so ask for less.
There is an important detail quietly underlying all the comments about how Tesla should solve this problem for us: It presumes that the driver can't learn, or refuses to do so. Low regen mode is a training tool. Much like training wheels, it's meant to be temporary, to help the driver adapt to a vehicle that behaves differently than what he may be coming from.
Chill mode and low regen are great ways to bridge the gap while you are adapting from something else. However, the best long term solution is to use our species' greatest strength: adaptability. The way you make something natural that is unnatural is to practice it, not avoid it.
It is not true that you can't modulate the accelerator carefully in a slippery situation if you are panicking, except in the sense that you can't do anything effectively when you are panicking. A terrible user interface is more effective for someone who is not panicking than the best possible user interface could be to someone who is panicking. The question to ask here is "How can we minimize how frequently people panic?" The answer is "give them full access to the device's abilities, and have them practice."
Effective emergency stopping with regen braking is virtually identical to doing it with regular brakes - if you ask for too much, you get almost nothing. So ask for less and less, until you get something. Then modulate that less & more, looking for the goldilocks spot that's juuust riiiight. The only difference with regen is that asking for too much is letting up on the accelerator too quickly or too far. If the regen ABS kicks in, you asked for too much, so ask for less. How? Do less of whatever you just did - which was let your foot up on the accelerator.
When I was practicing it, the analogy that I used was this: "Imagine the brake pedal is upside down, above the accelerator pedal, and that my foot is sandwiched between them. Lifting of the accelerator presses the brake pedal. So just use the top of my foot on that imaginary upside-down brake pedal to modulate how much braking I'm asking for.
It does take practice for it to become automatic. When I was new to the car and I found myself in my first regen skid, that was uncomfortable for sure. I was lucky that I had a moment to think, and then pressed the accelerator, and viola, I got control back. If it had been a panic stop, I'd have hit. But once I knew it was a skill I needed, I made a point of practicing it.
Chill mode and low regen are great ways to bridge the gap while you are adapting from something else. However, the best long term solution is to use our species' greatest strength: adaptability. The way you make something natural that is unnatural is to practice it, not avoid it.
It is not true that you can't modulate the accelerator carefully in a slippery situation if you are panicking, except in the sense that you can't do anything effectively when you are panicking. A terrible user interface is more effective for someone who is not panicking than the best possible user interface could be to someone who is panicking. The question to ask here is "How can we minimize how frequently people panic?" The answer is "give them full access to the device's abilities, and have them practice."
Effective emergency stopping with regen braking is virtually identical to doing it with regular brakes - if you ask for too much, you get almost nothing. So ask for less and less, until you get something. Then modulate that less & more, looking for the goldilocks spot that's juuust riiiight. The only difference with regen is that asking for too much is letting up on the accelerator too quickly or too far. If the regen ABS kicks in, you asked for too much, so ask for less. How? Do less of whatever you just did - which was let your foot up on the accelerator.
When I was practicing it, the analogy that I used was this: "Imagine the brake pedal is upside down, above the accelerator pedal, and that my foot is sandwiched between them. Lifting of the accelerator presses the brake pedal. So just use the top of my foot on that imaginary upside-down brake pedal to modulate how much braking I'm asking for.
It does take practice for it to become automatic. When I was new to the car and I found myself in my first regen skid, that was uncomfortable for sure. I was lucky that I had a moment to think, and then pressed the accelerator, and viola, I got control back. If it had been a panic stop, I'd have hit. But once I knew it was a skill I needed, I made a point of practicing it.
I don't know why you misinterpret what I said and then try to correct me LOL
There's no real issue with strong regen on ice and snow. Obviously, if you suddenly go full-off the gas, the braking force is stronger than typical car, and therefore may induce lockup. In my experience your muscle-memory builds real fast and you learn to module the gas to the correct level of regen.
The other reason you may want to reduce regen in these conditions is because brakes rust more easily. Increasing use of friction brakes helps keeps the rotor clean.
The other reason you may want to reduce regen in these conditions is because brakes rust more easily. Increasing use of friction brakes helps keeps the rotor clean.
This response seems to assume driving on something other than ice. Perhaps that approach works on slightly slippery surfaces, but I can assure you, you don't get weight transfer without acceleration or deceleration, and you will get extremely little of that on ice.
This strikes me as an arrogant take on the whole thing. If you read the thread, you'll find many examples of people saying that yes, learning helps, but software changes would further help to maintain control in the car. Off-road mode is used by many commenters in the thread to overcome some of the current limitations, but as the name implies, it's not really optimized for snow/ice driving, and a driver would have no idea they should use it in snow/ice without external information.
This entire thread is full of counterexamples. The biggest issue is that regen occurs primarily with the rear wheels (unless you're driving in off-road mode).
I use off road mode not to overcome the cars limitations, rather to build on its regen strengths. It's spreads the regen even front to back. I see no disadvantage to strong regen, only a lack of people's understanding of a new way to do better.
boulder.dude
Member
I’ve been using Off-Road Assist in snowy weather this season and it is much better!
two years with my myp this summer lol, never even looked twice at this feature. I'll def look into this.
Similar threads
