Snow, Ice, and regenerative braking

[E90alex]

This is the section in the manual.
View attachment 1006686

Again, this option is not available in cars from the last couple years.

 

[E90alex]

This is a dumb response. We're talking about safety here. Clearly Tesla has the ability to make the car safer , so why wouldnt they? It’s a lawsuit waiting to happen.

It’s just a matter of modulating the pedal. In a normal car you wouldn’t slam on the brakes in snow when trying to slow down for a normal stop. Same thing in one pedal driving, you can’t just lift your whole foot off the pedal quickly or abruptly.

Chill mode dampens the throttle response (both for acceleration and deceleration) so it’s not as sensitive and you can modulate it easier.

I never use chill mode normally, but I use it on snow and ice for this very reason.

 

[yobigd20]

It’s just a matter of modulating the pedal. In a normal car you wouldn’t slam on the brakes in snow when trying to slow down for a normal stop. Same thing in one pedal driving, you can’t just lift your whole foot off the pedal quickly or abruptly.

Chill mode dampens the throttle response (both for acceleration and deceleration) so it’s not as sensitive and you can modulate it easier.

I never use chill mode normally, but I use it on snow and ice for this very reason.

Fwiw i always drive on chill mode, and its still this bad. I cant imagine what the other modes are like if chill is supposed to help.

 

[E90alex]

Fwiw i always drive on chill mode, and it’s still this bad. I cant imagine what the other modes are like if chill is supposed to help.

I haven’t had an issue personally but I agree Tesla should have at least kept the option. Or put in a driver selectable snow/ice mode where regen is reduced along with more active front motor for both acceleration and regen. The problem is Tesla uses mainly the rear motor for acceleration and regen, so too much regen in snow/ice breaks traction in the rear and causes the car to skid.

The only other solution is to look into the S3XY buttons. I believe you can assign a button to change the regen mode even though it’s not an option on the screen. Yes it sucks that you have to spend money to “fix” it but there’s no other way around it since Tesla removed the regen option.

 

[Tectonic]

'23 MY LR in BC Canada. Just did a 1,000 km road trip over the mountains in ice, snow, freezing rain loaed up with our family and a ton of ski gear. On Michelin X Ice Snow tires (19"). My MY does *not* have option to change regen settings. I can see how for someone just jumping into the Tesla from an ICE car and heading out in the snow, and suddenly pulling off the accelerator when they hit a slippery patch it would be unnerving as heck. Heading down a steep grade in the mountains with hard packed snow and lots of wind, I certainly felt the backend twitch a bit a few times at around 45 mph when I pulled off the accelerator hard enough down this steep grade, though as soon as I pushed it back in a bit more toward neutral it went back to full control. Never felt like a full loss of control but certainly would be unnerving if you have some from your average front end heavy ICE SUV.

Have owned many different types of vehicles and driven them in snow including Jeep Gladiator, Ram 1500, BMW 330xi, VW Atlas, Benz gl350, Toyota Yaris etc. To me in snow the Model Y feels very similar to how my manual bmw 330xi felt if I would downshift in snow... just a hint of a twitch from the rear (or all four wheels if engine braking aggresively enough) -- though much, much heavier and you certainly do feel the extra weight of the tesla (and the weight distribution difference too - try slamming on the brakes in the snow in an MR2 for example and watch your rear overtake the front).

As long as one understands how regen braking and one pedal driving works in a heavy EV with the weight in the middle, and with proper winter tires and some experience driving different vehicles, I think the MY dual motor is perfectly safe and VERY competent in snow, but I definitely agree if someone were to just jump in and drive in tough snow conditions without being thoughtful about how regen will affect traction, and they suddenly let go of the accelerator it could lead to at least temporary loss of control. That said, probably no different from slamming on the brakes in an ICE car in a similar situation.

I will plan on getting ScanMyTesla and try to report back on whether the power distribution shifts to 50/50 in my MY.

Good observations - it's true that this situation can be partially mitigated by experience, but it's a frustrating (and unnecessary) compromise.

There are 3 problems with feathering the throttle to try to avoid regen-induced skidding, even for those with Tesla experience:

1) It takes concentration (and looking at the screen) to have the accelerator pushed the exact amount to eliminate regen without adding throttle. That's concentration that is taken away from other areas that need it during extreme conditions. Experience helps, but it's still a poor solution.
2) There is no ABS for regen braking
3) Based on numerous reports, regen has rear bias, the opposite of standard braking, and the opposite of what is needed for stability on ice.

It's a frustrating situation for something that could be easily fixed with software modifications.

 

[Icehedgehog88]

Those of us that have track mode can tweak the car to perform better in snow including reducing regen. These boards have a number some discussion using track mode for poor weather conditions. But one thing is clear there should be a snow mode for the entire fleet.

 

[timurx]

Monitoring the power distribution using ScanMyTesla, I noticed the car will switch to a fixed 50/50 front/back motor ratio as soon as the ambient temperature drops below 0 Celsius (freezing point). It stays 50/50 in all situations, speeds and pedal positions. This was with my old Model S dual motor. I assume it is the same with all dual motor cars, though.

I honestly wish there was a zero regen option. In theory we all know to feather the brake or accelerator. In reality, when the car start loosing traction, we all automatically lift off the accelerator completely. It's a panic reaction. Regen kicks in and makes things worse. With my old RWD Model S that caused me to slide almost sideways on an icy freeway. The best way to gain traction back when you slide is to have zero torque on all wheels. Hence I wish there was a zero regen option. I have not driven my new Y on icy roads, so maybe the car reacts much better now when it detects loss of traction.

If you have track mode (or SEXY buttons) you can turn it off or just lower it. Search snow and track mode

 

[Benito1283]

Off-Road assist also makes the accelerator pedal less sensitive, like Chill Mode. And I’m pretty sure it forces 50/50 front/back motor distribution which also applies to regen. This is the best way to drive in snowy and icy conditions, imo.

 

[CV-MY]

22+ needs adjustable regen back

C'mon Elon!

 

[boredwitless]

Off-Road assist also makes the accelerator pedal less sensitive, like Chill Mode. And I’m pretty sure it forces 50/50 front/back motor distribution which also applies to regen. This is the best way to drive in snowy and icy conditions, imo.

100%. Doing this is the closest you can get to manually putting the car into snow mode, and on LR and P models gives the right characteristics of 50/50 distribution for power and regen.

 

[David99]

If you have track mode (or SEXY buttons) you can turn it off or just lower it. Search snow and track mode

Yep, I got the S3XY buttons yesterday.

 

[ashlynch]

It’s just a matter of modulating the pedal. In a normal car you wouldn’t slam on the brakes in snow when trying to slow down for a normal stop. Same thing in one pedal driving, you can’t just lift your whole foot off the pedal quickly or abruptly.

Chill mode dampens the throttle response (both for acceleration and deceleration) so it’s not as sensitive and you can modulate it easier.

I never use chill mode normally, but I use it on snow and ice for this very reason.

I see your point regarding modulating the pedal but... I live in Colorado, in a ski town. When driving down a mountain pass such as Vail Pass during extreme weather, regen breaking is difficult to deal with. When the weather is at its worst and your foot is poorly positioned on the gas pedal, just adjusting it can cause a deadly situation, particularly when descending looong mountain passes with steep slopes. On a recent trip I desperately wanted to remove my right shoe... no can do. When driving around the city of Aspen during heavy snow/ice, regen breaking is not an issue. You just have to modulate the gas pedal, but under more extreme conditions when 4x4's are turned around backwards on the shoulder of Loveland pass in Colorado... Regen breaking becomes more dangerous. When you have a cliff edge on your left and you loose traction, your reflexes kick in and you want to release that gas pedal. It's hard to control that response and just lift it 1/8 of an inch instead. Descending mountain passes is just dangerous without the ability to adjust that setting. Tesla should change this.

 

[zoomer0056]

I see your point regarding modulating the pedal but... I live in Colorado, in a ski town. When driving down a mountain pass such as Vail Pass during extreme weather, regen breaking is difficult to deal with. When the weather is at its worst and your foot is poorly positioned on the gas pedal, just adjusting it can cause a deadly situation, particularly when descending looong mountain passes with steep slopes. On a recent trip I desperately wanted to remove my right shoe... no can do. When driving around the city of Aspen during heavy snow/ice, regen breaking is not an issue. You just have to modulate the gas pedal, but under more extreme conditions when 4x4's are turned around backwards on the shoulder of Loveland pass in Colorado... Regen breaking becomes more dangerous. When you have a cliff edge on your left and you loose traction, your reflexes kick in and you want to release that gas pedal. It's hard to control that response and just lift it 1/8 of an inch instead. Descending mountain passes is just dangerous without the ability to adjust that setting. Tesla should change this.

What about snow/ice tires and chains?

 

[David99]

I see your point regarding modulating the pedal but... I live in Colorado, in a ski town. When driving down a mountain pass such as Vail Pass during extreme weather, regen breaking is difficult to deal with. When the weather is at its worst and your foot is poorly positioned on the gas pedal, just adjusting it can cause a deadly situation, particularly when descending looong mountain passes with steep slopes. On a recent trip I desperately wanted to remove my right shoe... no can do. When driving around the city of Aspen during heavy snow/ice, regen breaking is not an issue. You just have to modulate the gas pedal, but under more extreme conditions when 4x4's are turned around backwards on the shoulder of Loveland pass in Colorado... Regen breaking becomes more dangerous. When you have a cliff edge on your left and you loose traction, your reflexes kick in and you want to release that gas pedal. It's hard to control that response and just lift it 1/8 of an inch instead. Descending mountain passes is just dangerous without the ability to adjust that setting. Tesla should change this.

You do not remove your shoe while driving. That's asking for trouble. But you can if you switch to neutral or use cruise control / AP.
The situation you describe is probably too dangerous to drive in, with or without regen. Harsh and sudden regen would make it worse, but if it's as bad as you describe, I'd seriously consider not driving.

 

[ashlynch]

I hear you guys, and I understand your points. I certainly see where you are coming from. I've driven everything from Toyota Camrys to high end BMW, Escalade and Lexus SUV's across those passes on the way to Denver. That sort of weather is part and parcel of living in the mountains, it just happens sometimes. Capable 4WD vehicles can make that trip, Tesla's inclusive (you just need to drive with intelligence). There are a lot of Tesla's in mountain towns. It would just be better if the car could lessen the regen force. As for chains... 18 wheelers are required to put chains on during extreme weather on I70 passes, not cars. They just need to be 4WD and proper tires (advised). I've never seen a car with chains on I70 unless it was akin to a 2003 Hyundai that had no business being out there. It's legal, but chains are a last resort for cars driving 15MPH or so (that's just hazardous on I70). The passes are heavily regulated and they shut down when its deemed too dangerous, but that's a high bar out here and winter weather can change on a dime. I love my Tesla, it's awesome. I just think it should have a setting for serious winter driving. Lots of folks drive in snow, but winter in the Aspen/Vail/Jackson Hole/Telluride/Steamboat areas are quite another animal. Tesla markets out here, they compete with Subaru, Audi, etc. The pass out of Jackson Hole can be harrowing in summer, much less winter. Some folks are forced to commute over it... As a Tesla advocate, I'd like to see a Tesla perform just as well as a BMW X7 or an Audi in such conditions. I can tell you from personal experience that without the ability to adjust regen breaking... they don't measure up... but they would with some minor adjustments! The car blows away the competition on so many fronts, why not this one? I can also understand why Elon might have taken the adjustable feature away. New Tesla drivers need to understand why regen breaking is a superior way to engineer an EV. Lot's of folks want their old muscle memory to reign and they'd likely reduce, or turn off regen if they had an option. As an alternative, seems like Tesla could just have an extreme winter weather setting that would regulate breaking front and back, lesson the regen force and also give forgiving acceleration. That would stop newbies from exiting the regenerative learning curve before seeing the light, while still making the car a winter driving force to be reckoned with. Thanks for everyone's input regarding off road mode and S3XY buttons. I'm considering the latter as an option and I'll play around with the off road setting the next time I'm forced to drive in a nasty storm (which will happen)! P.S. Just to save face, I wanted to take my shoe off because I had winter shoes on and minor adjustments to the pedal became difficult as the weather worsened .

 

[geom]

I drive a Colorado mountain pass every other day to ski. I have proper winter tires for the job, 235/60/18 (good sidewall rubber). When its icy or snow packed I drive in Off Road mode. I find the traction up the pass to be great, well planted and stable, as good as any car I have owned, including Subaru. Coming down the pass I experience no problem with regen causing slip, I love how it helps me gently slow without sliding. At times I wish regen was not reduced due to cold, but it's seems to be just enough so I do not need to use the brakes. With my ICE vehicle I always strived to use engine breaking/low gear so I never used the break; the Tesla simplifies this.

 

[PNWLeccy]

I drive a Colorado mountain pass every other day to ski. I have proper winter tires for the job, 235/60/18 (good sidewall rubber). When its icy or snow packed I drive in Off Road mode. I find the traction up the pass to be great, well planted and stable, as good as any car I have owned, including Subaru. Coming down the pass I experience no problem with regen causing slip, I love how it helps me gently slow without sliding. At times I wish regen was not reduced due to cold, but it's seems to be just enough so I do not need to use the brakes. With my ICE vehicle I always strived to use engine breaking/low gear so I never used the break; the Tesla simplifies this.

Same experience for me in off-road mode over snowy mountain passes in CO. I can get a little fishtailing on hard regen w/o off-road mode but it feels super stable with it on and both front and rear motors have been activated.

 

[rogersmj]

Also the stock wiper blades suck more than anything I've ever seen on any car before. Any recommendations for aftermarket?

This is definitely the truth. The last few days are the first I’ve been out in really crappy conditions in my Tesla, and man the wipers are pathetic. I thought I couldn’t hate them any more just because of how stupid the auto-wipers are, but now when I actually need them — when other cars are spraying freezing slush onto my windshield and I need to wash it every few minutes — they’re completely worthless.

Anyone find any amazing blades?

 

[jcanoe]

This is definitely the truth. The last few days are the first I’ve been out in really crappy conditions in my Tesla, and man the wipers are pathetic. I thought I couldn’t hate them any more just because of how stupid the auto-wipers are, but now when I actually need them — when other cars are spraying freezing slush onto my windshield and I need to wash it every few minutes — they’re completely worthless.

Anyone find any amazing blades?

Some swear by the CravenSpeed PIAA wiper blades. (Some Tesla Model Y owners have reported that the passenger side blade does not clear the lip of the hood when the blade goes to the resting position. This only happens with some Model Y vehicles. Make sure you can return the blades if they don't fit your Model Y.)

High Performance Wiper Blades

 

[Hellpops]

Note
The regenerative braking setting is not available on all vehicles.

Especially, I guess, mine...