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Signature Model X battery and range concerns in Oregon

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OK great. Is preconditioning just doing climate control in the cabin for 15 minutes before leaving? We are driving from Corvallis to sisters this week on Friday. My wife is going to take her car as well so if I get stranded, at least I won’t be completely stranded. I will take you up on all of these suggestions. And I will report back.

Yes - preconditioning is just activating climate control from the app. This will pre-heat the cabin and the battery pack from your house power.

I am not sure what the moderator splitting out this conversation on its own thread means?

Forum housekeeping. Separating the posts about your range concerns into their own topic, instead of being mixed into the topic about the Sisters, OR Supercharger.
 
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OK great. Is preconditioning just doing climate control in the cabin for 15 minutes before leaving? We are driving from Corvallis to sisters this week on Friday. My wife is going to take her car as well so if I get stranded, at least I won’t be completely stranded. I will take you up on all of these suggestions. And I will report back.

I am not sure what the moderator splitting out this conversation on its own thread means?
Thanks for posting the percentage and rated miles. That was all we needed to figure out how much total energy is available in your battery (MrBrock performed the calculation flawlessly).

I agree with everything @Mrbrock and @Big Earl said. Your car has a normal amount of battery degradation for its age and your energy usage is also fairly normal. The performance X is an energy hog, the batteries were not that big to begin with back then, and it's now had 8 years to degrade, so your range was never going to be very long, especially in winter going uphill. That being said, you should be able to drive from Corvallis to Sisters without issue if you drive the speed limit, even in bad weather.

I'm curious though now. Did you ever run out of charge on this drive? Or what happened to make you think you that you couldn't make it?
 
Here is my post from a couple days ago regarding the time, I did not make it to sisters from the Springfield supercharger last winter:

“I have a 2016 P90D Model X. I have told tesla about the degradation in range, and they remote check the batt pack and state that everything is normal. But my wife will not allow me to drive from Corvallis to sisters any more. We’ve also charged in Springfield, and it is hit or miss if we make it to sisters from the Mackenzie pass. You guys will see, these batteries degrade, and do not hold a charge especially in the winter. Range anxiety is a real issue, esp in winter. Last winter we supercharged in Springfield, and it said I would have 29% left when we got to sisters. As we progressed up the mountain, it changed to 19% left. Then started going down and down. By the time we were at hoodoo it said we would only have 2% left if we got to sisters. If it wasn’t for regen while going to down the mountain, we would have been stuck in the snow in winter. Even so, we did not make it to Sisters. We made it to black butte destination charger with 2 miles left in the “tank”. Changed for 15 minutes, and then made it to sisters. What the frick? This is why my son and wife will not let me drive to central Oregon any more. It was truly awful.”
 
Here is my post from a couple days ago regarding the time, I did not make it to sisters from the Springfield supercharger last winter:

“I have a 2016 P90D Model X. I have told tesla about the degradation in range, and they remote check the batt pack and state that everything is normal. But my wife will not allow me to drive from Corvallis to sisters any more. We’ve also charged in Springfield, and it is hit or miss if we make it to sisters from the Mackenzie pass. You guys will see, these batteries degrade, and do not hold a charge especially in the winter. Range anxiety is a real issue, esp in winter. Last winter we supercharged in Springfield, and it said I would have 29% left when we got to sisters. As we progressed up the mountain, it changed to 19% left. Then started going down and down. By the time we were at hoodoo it said we would only have 2% left if we got to sisters. If it wasn’t for regen while going to down the mountain, we would have been stuck in the snow in winter. Even so, we did not make it to Sisters. We made it to black butte destination charger with 2 miles left in the “tank”. Changed for 15 minutes, and then made it to sisters. What the frick? This is why my son and wife will not let me drive to central Oregon any more. It was truly awful.”
I missed that earlier, but that drive was Springfield to Sisters and not Corvallis to Sisters? Since you were Supercharging at Springfield, what was your charge percentage when you left? I do not trust the car computer when it says "it is safe to proceed to next charge stop" especially in cold weather or when you will be going significantly uphill.

I would guess you were at 60-70% leaving Springfield which is why you didn't have enough to reach Sisters. I know sometimes trips are unplanned, but that is tough to do in EVs in the winter with mountains involved. ABRP says that drive is 61% with current weather conditions (90-29). If you were at 90 and your car matched that and said 29% then there is definitely something else going on. It could have been you were driving into a huge headwind which might not be accounted for in your car if you are on older software.

Would you be able to post your software version? It could be that you just need a big upgrade and that might correct some issues.
 
i took a pic of software version a couple posts ago: v11.0 (2022.810.16 7477b4ff8e78). “Your software is up to date, etc”

I drive to Springfield from Corvallis because I was worried I wouldn’t make it to sisters. And tombstone pass was snowy. So I charged to 100% at Springfield. And then things went downhill from there. I dont need a software upgrade. There was no significant headwind. I didn’t start at 60-70%. I think there is something else going on. That’s what I keep trying to tell Tesla. But they won’t even allow me to purchase a new batt pack. They wont even interrogate the system to see if something is wrong.
 
i took a pic of software version a couple posts ago: v11.0 (2022.810.16 7477b4ff8e78). “Your software is up to date, etc”

I drive to Springfield from Corvallis because I was worried I wouldn’t make it to sisters. And tombstone pass was snowy. So I charged to 100% at Springfield. And then things went downhill from there. I dont need a software upgrade. There was no significant headwind. I didn’t start at 60-70%. I think there is something else going on. That’s what I keep trying to tell Tesla. But they won’t even allow me to purchase a new batt pack. They wont even interrogate the system to see if something is wrong.
Sorry, I missed that picture for some reason. Didn't mean to upset you.

As far as something being wrong with the battery, we are telling you there is not. You are only at 12% degradation. Tesla will ignore all requests from you related to a battery unless there is 30% degradation or more. You want to spend $30000 for 12% more range for a few months? It will come back down to 12% within a year or two. Also, 12% is 30 miles of RATED range. You are saying at 100% with 220 miles of RATED range, you couldn't make it 104 miles. That means the $30k you are spending would get you at most 15 miles in that situation. Complete waste of money. You would be much better off selling your Model X and putting all that money towards getting a newer one rated above 300 miles.

Another thought for cold weather driving, you may want to bump up your tire pressures a bit, slightly less rolling resistance. Related to that, do you have all season tires or more of an offroad/winter tread? This could cause displayed range to be much higher than actual. Usally this would show up in your wh/mile readings but maybe not in this case.

I am also wondering if there might be some type of calibration issue where the battery doesnt know how much capacity it actually has on the bottom end. If you consistently keep charge above 50%, the BMS won't be able to get readings at lower percentages. This thread is a great read for how to alter charging habits to allow the BMS to more properly display remaining range.

 
Sorry, I missed that picture for some reason. Didn't mean to upset you.

As far as something being wrong with the battery, we are telling you there is not. You are only at 12% degradation. Tesla will ignore all requests from you related to a battery unless there is 30% degradation or more. You want to spend $30000 for 12% more range for a few months? It will come back down to 12% within a year or two. Also, 12% is 30 miles of RATED range. You are saying at 100% with 220 miles of RATED range, you couldn't make it 104 miles. That means the $30k you are spending would get you at most 15 miles in that situation. Complete waste of money. You would be much better off selling your Model X and putting all that money towards getting a newer one rated above 300 miles.

Another thought for cold weather driving, you may want to bump up your tire pressures a bit, slightly less rolling resistance. Related to that, do you have all season tires or more of an offroad/winter tread? This could cause displayed range to be much higher than actual. Usally this would show up in your wh/mile readings but maybe not in this case.

I am also wondering if there might be some type of calibration issue where the battery doesnt know how much capacity it actually has on the bottom end. If you consistently keep charge above 50%, the BMS won't be able to get readings at lower percentages. This thread is a great read for how to alter charging habits to allow the BMS to more properly display remaining range.


Mostly I stated that I would purchase new batteries just to let them know how serious it is. As I stated, my wife and son won’t drive in this car on a road trip to sisters anymore. That’s very frustrating because I should be able to go to sisters. I used to go to bend in the past. From Corvallis. Either way, I do keep my tires inflated to about 42 PSI, even in the winter. Sometimes a little more up to 45 or 46 psi in the summer. I could add more PSI if you think I should? I agree, there may be something wrong in the whole system somewhere that is making the numbers look bad, or draining the batteries. That’s why I thought that Portland or Salem service could interrogate the whole system to figure out if something is wrong. But they won’t do that. So I’m on my own. Me and this forum discussion group.
 
@praskal To reiterate what people have said: There is nothing wrong with your battery. Replacing it isn't a solution. The car just has a very high consumption rate because of a ton of heating in the cold. As someone mentioned, the old Model X is about the most energy hungry beast in the Tesla lineup for a few reasons:

I think it also has the separate extra rear cabin heater, so cabin heating energy can be really high. It has a separate dedicated battery heater, which the old S and X both had. It doesn't have the heat pump, which newer cars have, which is more energy efficient.

So now as to suggestions to make it, I have a big one.

Some recommendations for making it to Sisters on a single charge:
  • While plugged in, precondition vehicle from the app for fifteen minutes before leaving home
  • Leave home with >95% battery
  • Reduce speed to 5 over the speed limit or 70 MPH, whichever is lower
  • Have your alignment checked
Those are good, but there is one more that is VITAL and will have a much bigger impact. In the car's settings, @praskal you need to find and turn on "Range Mode". This scenario is exactly what it was made for. Range mode does two main things. It will tone down the power consumption of the cabin heating. But the much bigger thing is that it will greatly reduce the battery heating during the drive. With range mode off, the car does warm up the battery quite a bit to get it fairly warm, so it can take a lot of recharging from the regen braking, etc. Well, that's fine for around town, where range isn't an issue, but when you're trying to stretch a distance, all of that extra battery heating is diverting energy away from the driving distance you could have. I have an old 2014 Model S, and turning on Range Mode cuts the energy consumption down significantly and will help a lot in a long cold drive.

Also, here's the other one you probably won't want to hear. Speed does incredible things to the distance you can drive, positively and negatively. I've done some ridiculous distance drives, including departing my garage with an estimated arrival energy remaining of -2%. I have made all of these by driving slowly. You definitely can make this by not speeding, but by doing some of the above tips, you probably won't have to go below the speed limit.
 
@praskal To reiterate what people have said: There is nothing wrong with your battery. Replacing it isn't a solution. The car just has a very high consumption rate because of a ton of heating in the cold. As someone mentioned, the old Model X is about the most energy hungry beast in the Tesla lineup for a few reasons:

I think it also has the separate extra rear cabin heater, so cabin heating energy can be really high. It has a separate dedicated battery heater, which the old S and X both had. It doesn't have the heat pump, which newer cars have, which is more energy efficient.

So now as to suggestions to make it, I have a big one.


Those are good, but there is one more that is VITAL and will have a much bigger impact. In the car's settings, @praskal you need to find and turn on "Range Mode". This scenario is exactly what it was made for. Range mode does two main things. It will tone down the power consumption of the cabin heating. But the much bigger thing is that it will greatly reduce the battery heating during the drive. With range mode off, the car does warm up the battery quite a bit to get it fairly warm, so it can take a lot of recharging from the regen braking, etc. Well, that's fine for around town, where range isn't an issue, but when you're trying to stretch a distance, all of that extra battery heating is diverting energy away from the driving distance you could have. I have an old 2014 Model S, and turning on Range Mode cuts the energy consumption down significantly and will help a lot in a long cold drive.

Also, here's the other one you probably won't want to hear. Speed does incredible things to the distance you can drive, positively and negatively. I've done some ridiculous distance drives, including departing my garage with an estimated arrival energy remaining of -2%. I have made all of these by driving slowly. You definitely can make this by not speeding, but by doing some of the above tips, you probably won't have to go below the speed limit.
As a MY owner, I had no idea about range mode so definitely take it from someone with an older car like yours. Also, the battery heating might not appear in the consumption calculation (coukd be totally wrong here) so that is why the estimated range to empty is wrong.
 
I’m not stating that there something wrong with the batt pack per se. I am just reiterating what others have stated such as maybe a beak caliper is rubbing, or “there might be some type of calibration issue where the battery doesnt know how much capacity it actually has on the bottom end. If you consistently keep charge above 50%, the BMS won't be able to get readings at lower percentages.” These potential issues will never undergo troubleshooting by Tesla service.

Either way, if we indeed end up driving to sisters tomorrow, I will enable “Range Mode”. I will charge to 90% tonight. And then tomorrow before we go, I will heat the cabin and charge the rest to 100%. The tires are at 43psi. I have put it in chill mode (not sure if that will help, but whatever). I will probably drive 5-6 miles over the speed limit. Driving 55 is kind of painful. But if you think I should only go this speed limit then I will.

I will keep off the seat warmer. I am thinking about not turning in climate. But sometimes gets steamy so need a/c defrost etc.
 
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Here are the tips related to those things:
I will probably drive 5-6 miles over the speed limit. Driving 55 is kind of painful. But if you think I should only go this speed limit then I will.
When I'm trying to make a longer distance, here's the thing. I will start out slower and see how it's going. You can watch the projection updating in real time of what your end % is looking like. If you're getting ahead of it, and the remaining % is rising, then it's easy to speed up some later in the drive to consume the extra. But if you start out fast, and get yourself in a jam, you're really not going to like trying to claw back extra miles out of nothing on the latter half of the drive and the stress that comes from that. So I highly recommend starting off slower and see how things are going.

I will keep off the seat warmer. I am thinking about not turning in climate. But sometimes gets steamy so need a/c defrost etc.
Most of us would say you don't need to sacrifice the seat warmer because it's not worth the tradeoff. Seat warmers are a very low consumption for heating, and since it's going right to you, it gives you more tolerance for it being a little cooler in the car. So maybe you can have the heat set at 67 instead of 72 or something like that? Heating up all that cabin air and then how quickly it's being lost through the glass is the big deal. Running with it off for some sections will certainly help cut the energy use, but I just don't think that should be necessary. With the other tips of charging right before the drive, doing a little preheat before you leave, and Range Mode, I think this should take care of itself pretty well. And seriously, not speeding.
 
-Start: 98% charged. Cabin conditioned.
-Says we’d have 30% left when we get to Sisters.
-but we decided to go to Detroit Lake. And it said that we would still have 55% when we get there to Detroit Lake.
-by the time we got to Detroit Lake supercharger, there was in fact only 51% left in the “tank”. —so we supercharged up to 86%.
-it stated that we would be at 47% by the time we get to sisters.
-got to sisters and it said 49% left in the tank.
-so this is great news. I kept it on “Range Mode”. I kept acceleration on “Chill”. We used climate/heating and a/c no problem.
-I went about 5 mph over the speed limit.
-I feel encouraged. Thank you all for all your help.
 
The individual stalls are now up.
 

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An important note about range mode & heat. I use Range Mode Exclusively, as in 100% of the time in our MS and MX. IF you have the HEAT set at HIGH, it will OVERRIDE Range Mode ad draw up to 6kW of power. IF You have Range Mode ON and set HEAT to 81 or below, it will limit heat output power to ~2kW, which is a SUBSTANSIAL savings.
It does take slightly longer to warm the cabin when we first get in, however, after a few minutes, it maintains the temperature just fine. if you'd like, turn it to High to take the chill out, and then down to 81 to maintain temp.
In the model X, to save additional substantial amount of power, unless it is blisteringly cold, don't use the Rear Heater if yours is so equipped. Crank the seat heaters which are ~75watt compared to drawing another 1.5-2kW from the rear heater.
Also keep fan speed at 9 or below. If you go to 10 or 11, it will automatically switch to recirculation. you do not get a choice, this is irregaurdless of range mode on or off, which WILL fog your windows in the winter. Keeping it at 9 will keep the fresh air coming in and prevent fogging. Further, "Auto" for climate is a massive stupidly programmed power hog. Don't like it.
 
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-Start: 98% charged. Cabin conditioned.
-Says we’d have 30% left when we get to Sisters.
-but we decided to go to Detroit Lake. And it said that we would still have 55% when we get there to Detroit Lake.
-by the time we got to Detroit Lake supercharger, there was in fact only 51% left in the “tank”. —so we supercharged up to 86%.
-it stated that we would be at 47% by the time we get to sisters.
-got to sisters and it said 49% left in the tank.
-so this is great news. I kept it on “Range Mode”. I kept acceleration on “Chill”. We used climate/heating and a/c no problem.
-I went about 5 mph over the speed limit.
-I feel encouraged. Thank you all for all your help.

Those are definitely within expected deviation from displayed range. Thanks for posting back here!

I noticed in my MY this weekend that the trip screen on the energy page shows a breakdown of usage and why the actual ending %/range is higher/lower than the initial projection. Does the MS screen show this? I don’t have access to the picture I snapped but I’ll post it later. It mentioned wind sped and direction and elevation change as reasons why it was low. And also had a sport for battery conditioning so very helpful to eliminate high usage things when trying to extend range. Curious if it would how the excess usage when not in Range mode for you.
 
-Start: 98% charged. Cabin conditioned.
-Says we’d have 30% left when we get to Sisters.
-but we decided to go to Detroit Lake. And it said that we would still have 55% when we get there to Detroit Lake.
-by the time we got to Detroit Lake supercharger, there was in fact only 51% left in the “tank”. —so we supercharged up to 86%.
-it stated that we would be at 47% by the time we get to sisters.
-got to sisters and it said 49% left in the tank.
-so this is great news. I kept it on “Range Mode”. I kept acceleration on “Chill”. We used climate/heating and a/c no problem.
-I went about 5 mph over the speed limit.
-I feel encouraged. Thank you all for all your help.
IMG_8060.jpeg
 
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I’m not stating that there something wrong with the batt pack per se. I am just reiterating what others have stated such as maybe a beak caliper is rubbing, or “there might be some type of calibration issue where the battery doesnt know how much capacity it actually has on the bottom end. If you consistently keep charge above 50%, the BMS won't be able to get readings at lower percentages.” These potential issues will never undergo troubleshooting by Tesla service.

Either way, if we indeed end up driving to sisters tomorrow, I will enable “Range Mode”. I will charge to 90% tonight. And then tomorrow before we go, I will heat the cabin and charge the rest to 100%. The tires are at 43psi. I have put it in chill mode (not sure if that will help, but whatever). I will probably drive 5-6 miles over the speed limit. Driving 55 is kind of painful. But if you think I should only go this speed limit then I will.

I will keep off the seat warmer. I am thinking about not turning in climate. But sometimes gets steamy so need a/c defrost etc.
I should add, on top of range mode, Tesla's recommended tire pressure is personally, downright low, and feels like driving on a flat. These cars are heavy. For 11 years and 450,000 miles, I've been doing 50psi all the way around in winter, and in summer 48 front 50 rear (as the car exhausts the warm air from the radiators on the front tires, pressure expands.
If your tires are within spec for the vehicle, Cold PSI max inflation should be 50 psi according to sidewall. This will give better handling, longer tire life, better range and less likely to get a blowout.
Tesla's recommended PSI (42ish I believe) is more for ride comfort than anything else.
 
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Unfortunately the older cars still have the simplified energy screen and do not have the detailed analysis the newer cars have access too(even with the MCU upgrade).


energy-graph.jpg



Something similar can be found in the phone App though it's hidden(Select 'Service->Vehicle Range->Range Analysis->Vehicle Range). Takes upto 20 mins to run and it will only give performance on the last drive over 15(?) miles.
 
Unfortunately the older cars still have the simplified energy screen and do not have the detailed analysis the newer cars have access too(even with the MCU upgrade).


View attachment 1024531


Something similar can be found in the phone App though it's hidden(Select 'Service->Vehicle Range->Range Analysis->Vehicle Range). Takes upto 20 mins to run and it will only give performance on the last drive over 15(?) miles.
Bummer but thanks for posting that. Seems silly for Tesla to abandon these high dollar early adopters. It’s just software.
 
I have a 2016 P90D Model X. I have told tesla about the degradation in range, and they remote check the batt pack and state that everything is normal. But my wife will not allow me to drive from Corvallis to sisters any more. We’ve also charged in Springfield, and it is hit or miss if we make it to sisters from the Mackenzie pass. You guys will see, these batteries degrade, and do not hold a charge especially in the winter. Range anxiety is a real issue, esp in winter. Last winter we supercharged in Springfield, and it said I would have 29% left when we got to sisters. As we progressed up the mountain, it changed to 19% left. Then started going down and down. By the time we were at hoodoo it said we would only have 2% left if we got to sisters. If it wasn’t for regen while going to down the mountain, we would have been stuck in the snow in winter. Even so, we did not make it to Sisters. We made it to black butte destination charger with 2 miles left in the “tank”. Changed for 15 minutes, and then made it to sisters. What the frick? This is why my son and wife will not let me drive to central Oregon any more. It was truly awful.
I, too have a 2016 signature model x with 65,000 miles. I live in Canada where the winters are brutal. My warranty on the battery ends next month and I have calculated that I have lost 13% of capacity over the last 8 years.