Shortage of Superchargers in mid America

[GasKilla]

It is 1064 miles from Dallas to Phoenix. [/COLOR]

Neither of these routes has single supercharger between them.
Meanwhile SC are clustered as close as fleas on a junkyard dog in parts of the EU.

Tesla has promised to fix these US gaps by the end of 2016 , only 11 months away. That is what the map shows but I am having increasing doubts. Meanwhile Tesla opens up new countries with SC while neglecting vast areas of their own country,.

You can travel from Dallas to Phoenix using the supercharger network, you just have to go a little bit north first and use I-40.

 

[FlasherZ]

Tesla has been pursuing a charger in Mt. Vernon, IL for a couple of years now, to make the connection from St. Louis to Mt. Vernon to Louisville to Nashville. It'll still be a slower path than using I-24, but it's an improvement over Nashville-Chattanooga-Knoxville-Lexington-Indy-Effingham-St. Louis. Took our family to Florida this year and went through Indy.

I live an hour east of St. Louis, so during the summer I can make Louisville, but St. Louis cannot.

While I definitely agree there's a big hole in the midwest, from New Orleans to Oklahoma, I can say that I've been able to take many, many trips using superchargers that I could never make prior to their existence.

 

[roblab]

I encourage you to hop in your car and try to drive to Nashville and then see what we are dealing with. I would like to go west from Nashville sometime before my battery warranty runs out. Maybe even drive to Napa?

See, that's the difference. We never expected any superchargers. And when they came, they were icing (not ICEing). I was reading below your post, where an owner was "not able" to get to Nashville from St. Louis, and yet many of us ARE able. It just takes longer. I guess if I had been "promised" I would have superchargers between everywhere to everywhere, I might be upset, but folks, they are working on it, don't you see?

This is not GM. This is teeny tiny Tesla. Oh, and by the way, GM doesn't have any plans to build out a charging network, either!

I got really good at driving slow and stretching my range a couple years ago. I would love to try going from St. Louie to Nashville, or Nashville to St. Louie, and I bet I could do it, but it might take me all day. And when you can't slow down and take your time driving from point A to point B, it's natural that it's hard to wait for superchargers.

But, believe me, they will come. In the mean time, do what I did. Go anyway. Get on the phone, find the motels with 14=50s. Go to Plugshare and find where the RV parks are, where the Destination 80 amps are, the private homes, even, that are willing to share. Make it an adventure. And have a good time.

It is about 325 miles from St. L. to Nashville, and there are a couple RV parks in Paducah. Doesn't look like much of a problem if you're really wanting to go. That's an easy day with a few hours top up. Be Brave! If your range buffer starts to drop, slow down, and enjoy the scenery.

And if you ever make it to Napa Valley, be assured you will be Welcome! (I lived 20 years in MO)

 

[FlasherZ]

I encourage you to hop in your car and try to drive to Nashville and then see what we are dealing with. I would like to go west from Nashville sometime before my battery warranty runs out. Maybe even drive to Napa?

Today, you can go from Nashville-Louisville-Effingham-St. Louis via superchargers. It adds 200 miles each way vs. the Paducah route, so it's pretty painful if St. Louis is your destination. But if you're headed further west, as a relative percentage of time, it's not all that bad of a deal.

When Mt. Vernon is put into place, 85 kWh and 90 kWh battery packs will likely work in summer (@ 235 miles from Nashville to Mt. Vernon) but they'll be at their edge. Nashville - Louisville - Mt. Vernon won't break a sweat and is only 130ish miles more than the direct I-24 route.

Then we can pray that Tesla wakes up to Paducah so that I-24 can be used.

Twice this year I've driven to Florida from St. Louis; we drove an extra 230 miles each way to go via Effingham and Indy. Next summer I'll be able to go directly via Louisville - Nashville - Chattanooga, saving me 130 miles or so (I live an hour east of St. Louis so I can do a straight run to Louisville).

 

[calisnow]

Have to agree with Bevguy.... there seems to be nothing but jabs from people who have SC's in their back yard who seem to think we are just complainers. We would like to enjoy the benefits (you now enjoy) that we were promised as some of the early adopters.

I have to agree with MrSled and Bevguy. I live in California and we have it really easy. I'm in Tulsa on business tonight and there are no Teslas in sight ANYWHERE. And since there are no Superchargers I can't say I blame the locals for not buying in - it's a useless machine for long distance travel on any reasonable time schedule without a rapid charging network.

I'm not attacking Tesla - just saying it's tone deaf for Californians to go lecturing people in Middle America about how they should suck it up, build their own charging networks and/or be happy with slow charging in RV parks.

I'm sure Tesla will fill in the gaps eventually - they've done very well. But the frustrated owners have every right to their level of deep frustration.

 

[green1]

I have to agree with MrSled and Bevguy - and to the guy from Angwin - give it a rest with the holier than thou lecturing dude! You live in California - you have Superchargers all over the place. Check your privilege, seriously. I ALSO live in California and we have it really easy. I'm in Tulsa on business tonight and there are no Teslas in sight ANYWHERE. And since there are no Superchargers I can't say I blame the locals for not buying in.

I'm not attacking Tesla - just saying you're incredibly tone deaf up there in beautiful Nor Cal to be lecturing Tesla owners living in Middle America who can't access the Superchargers.

To be perfectly fair, those of us living in Canada think that most anyone in the USA within reach of any supercharger is pretty tone deaf complaining about lack of access. For that matter, I can barely complain, I can actually reach one from where I am, there are still owners a few hour drive to my east that not only have no access to any chargers now, there aren't even any planned on any Tesla long term plan anyone has ever seen.

 

[FlasherZ]

For what it's worth, my backyard doesn't contain a supercharger and I've had the car for 3 years. I've made campgrounds work when I need to, but the network is getting bigger by the day. Right now Oklahoma to New Orleans is an issue south of st Louis but there's plenty of travel room from Nashville and other places here in the Midwest in the Tesla. Have a CHAdeMO adapter? Even better.

 

[calisnow]

To take a trip without SC's is to make "getting there in an electric car" the point of the operation. There's simply no longer *any* comparison to an ICE in the efficiency of the journey. It becomes "travel as end" rather than "travel as means". No amount of planning can get around a max charge rate of 58 mph.

This sort of travel is an admirable thing, but it'll never get people who aren't enthusiasts to adopt the vehicle. The whole point of the SC network is to make long distances acceptable for somebody whose main goal is just to get somewhere.

Perfectly put. Best post on this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

To be perfectly fair, those of us living in Canada think that most anyone in the USA within reach of any supercharger is pretty tone deaf complaining about lack of access. For that matter, I can barely complain, I can actually reach one from where I am, there are still owners a few hour drive to my east that not only have no access to any chargers now, there aren't even any planned on any Tesla long term plan anyone has ever seen.

I admire your commitment and those other owners, seriously. You guys rock. Without rapid charging for distance travel I wouldn't have bought in. You are a better person than I am.

- - - Updated - - -

...the network is getting bigger by the day.

True - the 2016 projection does look much better than 2015. And if the Model 3 is a hit I'd expect 2017 and 2018 to really flesh out the locations.

 

[Beryl]

For what it's worth, my backyard doesn't contain a supercharger and I've had the car for 3 years. I've made campgrounds work when I need to, but the network is getting bigger by the day. Right now Oklahoma to New Orleans is an issue south of st Louis but there's plenty of travel room from Nashville and other places here in the Midwest in the Tesla. Have a CHAdeMO adapter? Even better.

Yes. NRG is filling gaps via CHAdeMO and I am cheering them on although they are slower and more costly.

 

[TaoJones]

Progress in 2015 toward transcontinental travel without chains year-round (filling the I-10 gap): Exactly zero.

Progress in 2016 with 1 month down and 11 to go: Exactly zero, rounded up. You can't build what you haven't permitted, and you can't permit what you haven't even sited.

I-40 is not a reliable option in the winter for those without snow tires and/or chains handy. And for sure, neither is I-70, along which it can and does snow in May.

For a good laugh, have a look at the "Today" and "2016" views of the SC map on Tesla's site. Note the 8 SCs wishfully positioned upon the 2016 rendition between Tucson and San Antonio. Then pour yourself a beverage with the realization that 2014 and 2015 had the same wishful thinking.

It would seem appropriate, even with Tesla's smart commitment to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE, which has effectively halved the rate of completion for the latter in the US, that there be at least ONE (the only) viable transcontinental route completed (without the need for chains or snow tires) with all due alacrity.

After all, they did build I-10 for a reason ~50 years ago, folks. And it wasn't for grins. While there are destination chargers cropping up, it is unrealistic to suggest to anyone with a wife and kids that they're going to add 3 days to their trip to see Grandma on the opposite coast.

Someone needs to reconfigure the thinking for the Southwestern Region and with a quickness - it's embarrassing. Worse, it becomes a safety issue. If you haven't transited west to east or east to west, no need to opine. But just imagine explaining to said family why you have to take a sharp right at Baton Rouge and transit tornado country where there were 6 tornados the day before because Tesla can't build 8 SCs from Tucson to San Antonio.

And while I love Chademo chargers as much as the next wayward denizen, I can tell you that a) they aren't reliable b) are often throttled by design or deployment to 19kWh or less, c) aren't scalable, and d) aren't along the aforementioned stretch of Supercharger Wasteland in sufficient numbers to make the trip any more palatable.

If Tesla displays the sufficient measure of accountability this year to have all 8 of those SCs operational by year end such that I-10 transit is finally viable, I will personally deliver 10 cases of (quite good) ale to Palo Alto as just *one* guy's thank you. If everyone who wants I-10 open sent a 6-pack or a growler, the entire team wouldn't have to buy a drink until (early) retirement.

Yeah, it ain't happening this year, folks. And that's a shame.

It might get done by 2017, though, maybe, and that will be nice.

 

[cpa]

I dunno. Yes, it would have been fabulous for Tesla to have built out a bunch more Superchargers in North America by now so that much more of the country is connected. Yes, I live in California, and most places that I like to drive to or through have reasonable Supercharger availability. I can empathize.

I have followed the build out since I ordered my car in April 2014. I infer that Tesla tries their level best to erect Superchargers generally along long stretches of highway in as short a time as possible, given the myriad problems that could creep up. For example, in late 2014 and early 2015 suddenly Interstate 80 was completed from Truckee to Salt Lake City in a matter of months. Interstate 90 was completed from Billings to western Montana. Gillette and Sheridan followed about six months later. Interstate 40 was completed from Gallup to Okie City by mid summer (if I recall.)

This makes eminent sense because a 400-700 mile stretch opens up new regions for travel and enables more connections to previously established routes. It makes very little sense to build a lone Supercharger in El Paso or Oglalla, Nebraska just because they signed a lease, and the funds were available. Once we see a permit along Interstate 10 somewhere between Casa Grande and Houston or Interstate 40 east of Okie City or Interstate 80 between SLC and Cheyenne and east of Cheyenne, we will know that the dominoes will start falling and a huge chunk of that highway will have Superchargers up and running within a few months.

Tesla had to make some tough decisions with the Supercharger build out. They had to decide not only for North America but also for Europe, eastern Asia and the Antipodes. They had to decide which areas in North America would receive them and then try to prioritize the routes. Finally, none of us on this forum know what it is like to negotiate ground leases for Supercharger installations. Some locations might require political approval or a zoning variance from the city or county. It would not surprise me in one bit if Tesla ran into resistance, unreasonable ground rent or other business issues at a few sites that is requiring them to find alternate locations along these interstates, thereby delaying accessibility to these routes.

 

[Cottonwood]

There are strong hints of Tesla working on I-44 from OKC to STL, and I-20 from DFW to JAN (Jackson, MS).

These are small steps, but show some progress in the middle of the U.S...

 

[chargeshare]

Once we see a permit along Interstate 10 somewhere between Casa Grande and Houston or Interstate 40 east of Okie City or Interstate 80 between SLC and Cheyenne and east of Cheyenne, we will know that the dominoes will start falling and a huge chunk of that highway will have Superchargers up and running within a few months.

I can't wait for I-80 to fill in from SLC all the way through Iowa! Hopefully this year.

 

[David99]

Huge gaps for sure. Even if all major freeways and highways have Superchargers every 100 miles, that doesn't mean you can actually drive everywhere. Many times we drive off major freeways.
At the same time there is the fact that not many people drive across the country. Long distance traveling is a small percentage of total travel. I have done many long road trips and I noticed one thing: As soon as I get out of California, there is hardly anyone at any of the Superchargers. While Superchargers in California are almost always at capacity, I'm lucky to find one or even more Tesla's at any of the road trips. In other words, yes there are gaps to be filled, but at the same time, Tesla has already invested millions into building Superchargers in places that get almost no use. It's a huge amount of money and effort that went into covering the country for very little return to the owners.

 

[TexasEV]

Tesla has already invested millions into building Superchargers in places that get almost no use. It's a huge amount of money and effort that went into covering the country for very little return to the owners.

Not so. As Steve Jurvetson (venture capitalist and Tesla board member) explained, superchargers are the answer to the question "How would I get from A to B?", even when the person hasn't driven from A to B in 20 years and has no intention of driving from A to B.

 

[David99]

Not so. As Steve Jurvetson (venture capitalist and Tesla board member) explained, superchargers are the answer to the question "How would I get from A to B?", even when the person hasn't driven from A to B in 20 years and has no intention of driving from A to B.

I totally agree, if you advertise long distance traveling and that's what people sometimes do in their cars, then you need to provide some solution. But the questions how much is enough. How much is the demand to drive in certain areas that are considered gaps. Where is the line?
Any other EV except the Model S/X is sold without any long distance option. And people still buy it. The Model S/X is sold with hundreds of charging stations across the country yet some people complain. It really comes down to what is enough. Where do you spend your money. If Tesla would spend all their money on creating a complete and perfectly connected network without gaps it would fail to provide where 90% of all traffic is happening and where people need to charge. The effect would be worse.
Just think about it, you can build just barely enough Superchargers in California to cover one up-down route and put all the other Superchargers into the rest of the gaps. You will have 10,000 Model S owners in California who travel between north and south lining up at the few Superchargers ready to sell their cars. At the same time you have created a complete network for then 58 owners that travel across Nebraska twice a year. Or do it as Tesla has actually done it. Have 30+ SuC in California and none in Nebraska. What will cause more frustration and negative press for Tesla?

Tesla is not able to truly complete a network of SuC that would cover the entire US. They can do only so much and that is a balance between where traffic happens and completing a network.

 

[Beryl]

I totally agree, if you advertise long distance traveling and that's what people sometimes do in their cars, then you need to provide some solution. But the questions how much is enough. How much is the demand to drive in certain areas that are considered gaps. Where is the line?

It is interesting to read the "Are there too many unnecessary SCs being built in middle America?" questions from California residents. I'm quite certain many of us outside of California think the same thing about new SCs being built in CA. However, we "get it" when we read about the long lines at CA SCs.

Also, the argument that SCs aren't needed because of infrequent use doesn't make much sense, IMO. No one says the same about the hundreds (thousands?) of gas stations that go unused for days in remote areas. ICE drivers want those stations in place.

The argument that other EVs are sold even though there are no chargers in remote areas doesn't apply because those EVS were designed for commuting short distances.

The reality is that SCs should continue to be built wherever Tesla wants customers. Destination Chargers and other non-Tesla faster chargers should become as common as phone booths in the 1970s. Moreover, for the good of the planet, I want to completely eliminate the need for ICE.

 

[DCGOO]

I can't wait for I-80 to fill in from SLC all the way through Iowa! Hopefully this year.

...Or I-80 between New York City and Chicago (Pennsylvania is dead).

 

[Spidy]

I think Tesla completely misjudged Germany. At some point Elon said they wanted to sell 1000 cars a months. Well, they are selling around 135 these days.

 

[hybridbear]

I totally agree, if you advertise long distance traveling and that's what people sometimes do in their cars, then you need to provide some solution. But the questions how much is enough. How much is the demand to drive in certain areas that are considered gaps. Where is the line?
Any other EV except the Model S/X is sold without any long distance option. And people still buy it. The Model S/X is sold with hundreds of charging stations across the country yet some people complain. It really comes down to what is enough. Where do you spend your money.

That's the key difference. We have a BEV with a range of about 80 miles & a PHEV for the long trips. The only way to go 100% EV would be with a Tesla via the Supercharger network. We'd love to go 100% EV and never burn another gallon of gas again in our cars. But, right now the Supercharger network is not built out enough across the far northern tier of the US & into Canada. Since our road trips almost always mean going north from MN into Canada to visit family, right now the only option is to take the PHEV & burn gas.

The short-range BEVs that don't have any long-distance option also cost 1/4 to 1/2 of what the Model S costs. We have two cars for less than what it would cost for one Model S. If we go the route of getting a Model S, its high cost would mean going back to having just one car in our family.

As far as your question of, how much is enough, Tesla should do whatever will allow them to sell the most cars. They need the revenue from selling more cars to build more Superchargers. So, they should place the Superchargers in areas that will allow them to sell the highest number of vehicles in the shortest amount of time. Then they can get to lower priority areas in the future.