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Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

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I purchased a CHAdeMO adapter from Tesla a few weeks ago. they came back in stock with limited supply and sold out quickly
This has been the story for quite a while. I bought one about 1.5-2 years ago, shortly after Tesla updated the Model 3 software to support the CHAdeMO adapter, and at that time, the thing kept going in and out of stock on Tesla's site -- mostly out of stock. IIRC, the same was true of the J1772 adapter, although it wasn't as bad.

Side question: Have there been any updates to the CHAdeMO adapter's firmware that are worth getting in the last 1.5-2 years? I'm just wondering if I should bother bringing it to Tesla for an update before a July 4 road trip I'm planning.
 
I just checked Tesla and the CHAdeMO adapter shows "out of stock". Here's the link:


If you have a link to where it can be directly ordered from Tesla, please post it, but check it first before posting. Being available "a few weeks ago" doesn't help anyone now.
Screenshot_20210620-190123_Chrome.jpg
 
Side question: Have there been any updates to the CHAdeMO adapter's firmware that are worth getting in the last 1.5-2 years? I'm just wondering if I should bother bringing it to Tesla for an update before a July 4 road trip I'm planning.
We bought our CHAdeMO adapter in 2016. It had to be programmed by the Service Center to work with our 2012 Signature Edition P85. It hasn't needed reprogramming or updating since. If there are updates for it, will it need to be done by the Service Center or will it transfer from an OTA received by the car?
 
Would it? What do other chargers do right now? You can't charge two vehicles at once, and there's no pre-existing protocol for how to arbitrate (thus this question). Wouldn't "properly handling" the case be to basically shut them both down and tell the user to get it straight and plug one in at a time?
EVgo has some DC FCs that allow both connectors to be in use at the same time.

See Electric Vehicle Charging Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) under "Can two vehicles charge at the same time using CHAdeMO and CCS?"
 
So has anyone noticed that only older Model S and X’s get the 80kw speed ? I tested the adapter on a friends 2018 model s and it only got 50KW. Tesla needs to push a software update to allow the 200 amp limit or someone come up with a software exploit.
 
So has anyone noticed that only older Model S and X’s get the 80kw speed ? I tested the adapter on a friends 2018 model s and it only got 50KW. Tesla needs to push a software update to allow the 200 amp limit or someone come up with a software exploit.
While I only have a Model 3 with the adapter, which has a pack voltage of up to 400V with the software in the car limiting the current to 125A (maximum 400Vx125A = 50 kW) , there's a reason for the limit on the S as well but it's a different reason.

From my understanding, smaller battery Model S and X (75 kW and less) charge at up to 355V, and the adapter supplies maximum 200A, so charging using the adapter will get a theoretical maximum 355Vx200A or 71 kW on those S and X. But small battery S and X don't even go to 200A when charging, so really the maximum is the max charging voltage (355V) x the max charging current the car requests (~190A?) or 67 kW, and this only in the narrow band that the car requests maximum current.
Large battery S and X can charge at up to 400V and can exceed 200A charging current, so have a theoretical maximum of 400Vx200A or 80 kW on the adapter.

Unlike on the Model 3/Y, this is not a software current limit - while the car and adaptor does go to 200A (or for smaller pack cars, the max the car can safely charge without damaging the battery) on smaller battery Model S and X, the main limiting factor is the lower pack charging voltage. A higher voltage will damage the battery pack, so there is nothing in the car you can change to up the limit.
 
The most elegant setup would be to allow the second vehicle to plug in and authenticate by app or RFID and wait in an inactive state until the first vehicle is finished charging so that it can automatically begin without further user interaction.
The first round of Blink CHAdeMO stations did just this. The problem with EA sites is, as some have pointed out, that there is no place to park a 2nd car. I suspect the reason for 2 CCS at EA stations is shadier though. I suspect they got their penal credit for installing 2 chargers, even if only one can be used at each pedestal.
 
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The first round of Blink CHAdeMO stations did just this. The problem with EA sites is, as some have pointed out, that there is no place to park a 2nd car. I suspect the reason for 2 CCS at EA stations is shadier though. I suspect they got their penal credit for installing 2 chargers, even if only one can be used at each pedestal.
The stated reason for EA's design of two CCS plugs per pedestal is to enable charging on a wide variety of cars. With plugs located in the center front, left side front, left side rear, and right side rear, the reasoning goes, EA needed either long cables or two cables with different attachment points to guarantee that all cars could charge. Some cars also locate their charge ports pretty far back on the left front, too. I don't have exact measurements, but from photos, this looks to be true of the Jaguar i-Pace and Ford Mustang Mach-E, for example.

I'm not sure I buy that explanation, but I certainly can't disprove it. It would be interesting to see some tests of the matter, with people driving a variety of EVs with different charge port locations (and especially ones far back on the side, like the i-Pace and Mach-E) trying to plug in with both the left and right cables at multiple EA stations (with different pedestal locations relative to the parking spots). If it's difficult or impossible to get certain combinations to work, then EA's official explanation makes sense.
 
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The first round of Blink CHAdeMO stations did just this. The problem with EA sites is, as some have pointed out, that there is no place to park a 2nd car. I suspect the reason for 2 CCS at EA stations is shadier though. I suspect they got their penal credit for installing 2 chargers, even if only one can be used at each pedestal.
I don't think EA got any extra credit for the redundant cables. I think the standard pedestal from existing suppliers was always designed for two cables. IMHO, the CCS cables and cooling systems are relatively fragile, so having a redundant cable is better for uptime and availability.
 
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So has anyone noticed that only older Model S and X’s get the 80kw speed ? I tested the adapter on a friends 2018 model s and it only got 50KW. Tesla needs to push a software update to allow the 200 amp limit or someone come up with a software exploit.
What was the SOC when you used it? Are you referring to the CHAdeMO adapter or the SETEC CCS1 to Tesla adapter? We have used both. Using the SECTEC, I got 55kW at 81% SOC, which is probably what I would get at a Supercharger at that SOC. I haven't encountered many CHAdeMO chargers which deliver more than 50kW. Many are only 25kW as they were deployed for vehicles which had smaller batteries (24-30 kW) and didn't have active thermal management systems for their batteries (Nissan LEAF, KIA Soul, etc.).
 
I haven't encountered many CHAdeMO chargers which deliver more than 50kW. Many are only 25kW as they were deployed for vehicles which had smaller batteries (24-30 kW) and didn't have active thermal management systems for their batteries (Nissan LEAF, KIA Soul, etc.).
The documentation for Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter specifically states that it maxes out at 125A and 450V. That works out to 56.25kW; and of course if the pack voltage is 400V, it'd be 50kW as a theoretical maximum. I've only used my CHAdeMO adapter a few times, but I've never seen it even hit 50kW, much less exceed it. That said, I don't think I've ever used it on a charger capable of doing more than 50kW; and I don't even know that such CHAdeMO chargers exist in North America.

The Setec CCS adapter's Web page specifies maximums of 200A and 1000V, although I noticed in one video review that the sticker on the unit specifies 800V, so it could theoretically do 160-200kW, if Tesla were to release a vehicle with a high enough pack voltage. AFAIK, current Tesla's max out at around 400V, give or take a bit, so the theoretical limit with the Setec would be about 80kW. The Model 3 and Y limit the amperage to 125A with this adapter, further reducing it to about 50kW with those cars. Some YouTube reviews show Model S or X vehicles getting in excess of 60kW (their software doesn't impose the 125A limit that the 3 and Y do).
 
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I don’t even expect the CCs adapter for the model 3 to be able to handle more than 50kw as its mimicking the chademo. Which is ok for me. It’s just going to be a backup for trips that don’t have Superchargers. Which is a good amount still up here in western Canada.

Does anyone realistically think that tesla will make an official CCS adapter ? I really don’t think so, or they will be opening themselves up to pressure from the public and lawmakers to allow non Tesla’s to charge at Superchargers. Maybe I’m wrong, Either way I think it works better if it’s an unofficial adapter, as it keeps the amount of Tesla’s at ccs chargers low, so more space for those of us who have it!

Realistically, needing a non Tesla charger adapter (chademo or ccs) probably affects less than 5% of Tesla owners
 
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Does anyone realistically think that tesla will make an official CCS adapter ? I really don’t think so, or they will be opening themselves up to pressure from the public and lawmakers to allow non Tesla’s to charge at Superchargers. Maybe I’m wrong, Either way I think it works better if it’s an unofficial adapter, as it keeps the amount of Tesla’s at ccs chargers low, so more space for those of us who have it!

Tesla already makes a CCS adapter for European Teslas. And they have announced a CCS adapter that they are going to sell in Korea. (Korean Teslas use the same port as North American ones, so the adapter should work here as well if Tesla allows it.) We have even seen that the Korean CCS adapter has gone through the certification process, so we should see reports of it in the next few months. (It was originally supposed to be released in the first half of 2021.)
 
Tesla already makes a CCS adapter for European Teslas. And they have announced a CCS adapter that they are going to sell in Korea. (Korean Teslas use the same port as North American ones, so the adapter should work here as well if Tesla allows it.) We have even seen that the Korean CCS adapter has gone through the certification process, so we should see reports of it in the next few months. (It was originally supposed to be released in the first half of 2021.)
Yes. You are correct in that. As I understood, Tesla needed to make an adapter to be able to sell their cars there as the Korean government was solely funding CCS for the future and starting to eliminate chademo. I would be shocked if they officially brought it to North America due to their pretty strong supercharger network here. But, I hope Tesla makes an official one as then maybe we can do faster charging like 100-250kw, but tesla is pretty slow with stuff like this it seems, so we will see!
 
It's not a priority for Tesla.

Between getting more SC online, new factories up and running, 4680 battery development, a few new vehicles designs out for delivery, and probably a bunch of other things I missed, the very last thing on their mind is to start selling an ADAPTER that will increase the amount of service center visits/complaints. As much as it would benefit a lot of Tesla owners with figurative Diesel-Car Anxiety (inability to fill up at every gas station), it's probably left with Setec in the near (if not far) future.
 
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I don’t even expect the CCs adapter for the model 3 to be able to handle more than 50kw as its mimicking the chademo. Which is ok for me. It’s just going to be a backup for trips that don’t have Superchargers. Which is a good amount still up here in western Canada.
The Setec CCS adapter can handle more than 50kW on Model S and X. I've seen multiple YouTube reviews of the device that show it getting 60kW or more on such vehicles. For some reason, though, the Model 3/Y firmware restricts amperage to 125A with this adapter (and presumably the CHAdeMO adapter, which is hardware-limited to 125A), but the Model S/X firmware doesn't do so. (Caveat: I don't know about the S and X Plaid models.) Thus, if Tesla were to make the Model 3/Y act more like the Model S/X, the Setec adapter would suddenly get a boost to a theoretical maximum of 80kW (200A x 400v). It's conceivable Tesla might do this in conjunction with the release of their own CCS adapter for the Korean market (see below) -- but then too, Tesla might intentionally limit their adapter to 50kW, have it work via a different protocol, make the Tesla-side software changes apply only to Korea, etc.

There are reports earlier in this thread and elsewhere about experimental Setec firmware that enables the device to work around the Tesla-side 3/Y 125A limit, presumably by spoofing the Supercharger protocols rather than the CHAdeMO adapter protocols. The trouble is that there are two reports (that I know of) of cars whose charging systems have been physically damaged after using this experimental firmware, so it seems buggy in a downright dangerous way. Nonetheless, Setec might get this fixed in the future. It's far from certain that this will happen, though, and I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the first people to use such an upgrade -- I'll let others be guinea pigs on that before I risk my own car, particularly on a road trip.

In sum, then, the current Setec CCS adapter is capable of higher charging rates (theoretically 70kW or 80kW, depending on pack voltage) on S and X vehicles; and there are two ways the limit might be raised on 3 and Y vehicles in the future. If I had to lay odds, I'd say there's a 50% chance of the current Setec CCS adapter producing higher speeds on the 3 and Y within a year, with a Setec firmware update being the more likely path to that result than a Tesla car-side update.
Does anyone realistically think that tesla will make an official CCS adapter ? I really don’t think so, or they will be opening themselves up to pressure from the public and lawmakers to allow non Tesla’s to charge at Superchargers. Maybe I’m wrong, Either way I think it works better if it’s an unofficial adapter, as it keeps the amount of Tesla’s at ccs chargers low, so more space for those of us who have it!
Tesla has already announced a CCS adapter for the South Korean market. Teslas sold in South Korea use the same plug as North American Teslas, so there's a good chance that this adapter, if it moves out of vaporware status, will work in the US. AFAIK, Tesla has been mum about the possibility of selling the adapter in North America, but I expect there will be some grey market imports if Tesla doesn't bring it to North America in an official capacity -- at least, if somebody tests it and finds that it actually works on North American CCS stations. One of the experiences with the Setec adapter is that the brands of CCS stations in North America aren't quite the same as those prevalent in South Korea, so there were initial problems with compatibility, which Setec resolved fairly quickly via firmware updates. Thus, the South Korean Tesla CCS adapter might not be very reliable in North America unless Tesla decides to actively support it. (OTOH, if Tesla designs and tests the thing in the US before testing it in South Korea, it will likely be compatible with many CCS stations that are popular here.)

I don't see how Tesla's CCS adapter would put any pressure on Tesla to open up the Supercharger network to non-Tesla cars in North America. The adapters under discussion enable Teslas to charge on CCS stations; they'd do nothing to enable CCS vehicles to charge on Superchargers. That would require either an entirely different adapter or Tesla to add CCS (and/or CHAdeMO) cables to its Superchargers. The most that could be said about a Tesla CCS adapter for North America is that it would prove that converting between DC fast charging protocols is possible -- but Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter and Setec's CCS adapter already do this. Going the other way, of course, is a different type of conversion, and Tesla might argue it would be more difficult.
Realistically, needing a non Tesla charger adapter (chademo or ccs) probably affects less than 5% of Tesla owners
In terms of current needs, you're probably right. As EVs become more common, though, the desirability of an adapter may go up in the not-too-distant future. The reason is to serve people who can't charge at home. Currently, there are more Tesla Supercharger stalls than stalls for CCS/CHAdeMO DC fast chargers in the US; but there are more CCS/CHAdeMO stations than there are Supercharger stations. In my area (Rhode Island), I've seen several CCS/CHAdeMO stations open in the last two years, but there's still only one operational Supercharger in Rhode Island, AFAIK. An apartment-dweller may rely on a DC fast charger at a supermarket or some other frequently-visited location for a good chunk of their charging, and with more CCS/CHAdeMO stations (with a heavy shift toward CCS occurring now, thanks in large part to Electrify America's favoring CCS), an adapter will help make a Tesla a practical vehicle. To be sure, we're still at a point where EVs are not practical vehicles for most people who can't charge at home or at work, but given the rate of DC fast charger deployment over the past couple of years, it's becoming practical for more apartment-dwellers, and we may reach a tipping point in 2-5 years, at a guess. This tipping point will omit Tesla owners if they can't charge at non-Tesla DC fast chargers, though. Realistically, I don't think this will be a big problem, since there are now two adapters available, and EVgo, at least, is dipping its toes in the water of direct Tesla support. If CCS stations became common enough that people were passing over Teslas for lack of CCS support, I expect Tesla could release an adapter pretty quickly, particularly if the official Tesla CCS adapter for South Korea moves out of vaporware status.
 
Tesla already makes a CCS adapter for European Teslas.
As I understand it, the European CCS adapter is an entirely different beast from what would be needed in the US. Not only are CCS2 (used in Europe) and CCS1 (used in North America) physically different; but Teslas sold in Europe and North America have different internal charging hardware and different physical connectors on the cars. The Model 3 and Y sold in Europe support CCS2 natively. The CCS2 adapter sold in Europe is intended for (pre-Plaid, I believe) S and X vehicles; and to use that adapter, a physical hardware upgrade is required to the cars so that they can support CCS2. The European CCS2 adapter is more like the J1772 adapter that comes with US Teslas; it just makes the physical connection possible, leaving the Tesla's firmware and (upgraded) hardware to handle the CCS2 signaling, etc.

As I understand it (and I could be wrong), all post-Roadster Teslas (S, X, 3, and Y) sold in the US are more like European S and X vehicles, in that they don't have the internal hardware or software to support CCS, and this lack of hardware support goes deeper than just the physical plug design. Thus, the Setec CCS1 adapter is a big klunky thing because it has to do more to translate between the protocols. It's seen several firmware updates to improve compatibility because different DC fast charger manufacturers interpret the standards in different ways.

All that said, I'm not an expert on any of these protocols. This information is gleaned from public discussions on this forum and elsewhere, and it could be badly distorted. In fact, I'd like for it to be badly distorted. If Tesla could do a simple physical adapter in conjunction with a software update for the vehicles to handle CCS1, then that'd help make the adapter both compact and affordable. If what's been written online is true, though, Tesla's CCS1 adapter, if it ever materializes, is likely to be in the same price ballpark as Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter and Setec's CCS adapter.
 
As I understand it, the European CCS adapter is an entirely different beast from what would be needed in the US. Not only are CCS2 (used in Europe) and CCS1 (used in North America) physically different; but Teslas sold in Europe and North America have different internal charging hardware and different physical connectors on the cars. The Model 3 and Y sold in Europe support CCS2 natively. The CCS2 adapter sold in Europe is intended for (pre-Plaid, I believe) S and X vehicles; and to use that adapter, a physical hardware upgrade is required to the cars so that they can support CCS2. The European CCS2 adapter is more like the J1772 adapter that comes with US Teslas; it just makes the physical connection possible, leaving the Tesla's firmware and (upgraded) hardware to handle the CCS2 signaling, etc.

As I understand it (and I could be wrong), all post-Roadster Teslas (S, X, 3, and Y) sold in the US are more like European S and X vehicles, in that they don't have the internal hardware or software to support CCS, and this lack of hardware support goes deeper than just the physical plug design. Thus, the Setec CCS1 adapter is a big klunky thing because it has to do more to translate between the protocols. It's seen several firmware updates to improve compatibility because different DC fast charger manufacturers interpret the standards in different ways.

All that said, I'm not an expert on any of these protocols. This information is gleaned from public discussions on this forum and elsewhere, and it could be badly distorted. In fact, I'd like for it to be badly distorted. If Tesla could do a simple physical adapter in conjunction with a software update for the vehicles to handle CCS1, then that'd help make the adapter both compact and affordable. If what's been written online is true, though, Tesla's CCS1 adapter, if it ever materializes, is likely to be in the same price ballpark as Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter and Setec's CCS adapter.
This article explains some of the physical differences
 
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Tesla's Korean CCS adapter will not work with US cars unless the US cars have a PLC modem in their chargeport ECU, which only existed in european Teslas. There is rumor tesla MAY have started shipping US cars with a CCS modem at some point last year; if so, then those cars could theoretically work with a CCS adapter after their software is enabled to do so, but the rest will still not work. At best, Tesla is waiting a year so enough people have them that they can release adaper and software update, and the complaints will be minimal when people realize only older cars don't work with it.

The SETEC definitely identifies itself to the Model 3 as CHADEMO confirmed in my logs.