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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Yeah, this is where the Ouija Board stuff comes into play... but DL's explanation upthread was logical, people follow trends, and I guess algos too, I think they just amplify similar movements, so then you get this "crowd psychology" thing going on - when it's stated like that I can buy-into the concept
If you've ever read Asimov's Foundation Series that is how I think about EW. While humans are highly unpredictable at the individual level, as we gather together into larger and larger piles of humans, we grow increasingly predictiable. In the Foundation Series, the key "technology" if you will is that somebody invents the mathematics of psychohistory - math that can be used to make extremely accurate predictions about how the galaxy spanning human civilization will change and grow, shrink, war, and peace over time measured in millenia.

That's fiction, and a good read. I think the only time in my life where I remember getting to the end of a book and being genuinely surprised at the grand reveal / conclusion.


Anyway, while we're unpredictable at an individual level, as we get larger and larger groups of people trading (market, issue, commodity), the gyrations that can be approximated using a random walk actually begin to exhibit patterns that repeat. EW is a surprisingly accurate description of those patterns.

(Again - this is how I think about it)
 
If you've ever read Asimov's Foundation Series that is how I think about EW. While humans are highly unpredictable at the individual level, as we gather together into larger and larger piles of humans, we grow increasingly predictiable. In the Foundation Series, the key "technology" if you will is that somebody invents the mathematics of psychohistory - math that can be used to make extremely accurate predictions about how the galaxy spanning human civilization will change and grow, shrink, war, and peace over time measured in millenia.

That's fiction, and a good read. I think the only time in my life where I remember getting to the end of a book and being genuinely surprised at the grand reveal / conclusion.


Anyway, while we're unpredictable at an individual level, as we get larger and larger groups of people trading (market, issue, commodity), the gyrations that can be approximated using a random walk actually begin to exhibit patterns that repeat. EW is a surprisingly accurate description of those patterns.

(Again - this is how I think about it)
Hari's Psychohistory can predict the general trajectory of Galactic civilisations, but not the fate of individuals...

So as an analogy, I don't think TSLA stands in isolation, but is buffeted by the wider market turbulence
 
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Hari's Psychohistory can predict the general trajectory of Galactic civilisations, but not the fate of individuals...

So as an analogy, I don't think TSLA stands in isolation, but is buffeted by the wider market turbulence
except at times, the volume of TSLA option activity exceeded that of the entire market combined and at some other times, TSLA $ traded volume exceeded that of SPY. :cool:
Those were the good old days.
 
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I'm not worried about the position, it can survive down to $165 or so. Even then I could buy some **SUGAR** puts and avoid a maintenance call.

How did you calculate that you'd have enough extrinsic to survive $165? Show me how, please. I have the same expiry and strike puts as CSP. Although they are green, they are there from a red roll, so not really green. Hearing of potential to retrace, I can see the benefit of buying them back at a loss now, sit the sidelines, sell something else or use the free'd cash to buy shares sub-180. It's still tough placing that buy-back order.
 
How did you calculate that you'd have enough extrinsic to survive $165? Show me how, please. I have the same expiry and strike puts as CSP. Although they are green, they are there from a red roll, so not really green. Hearing of potential to retrace, I can see the benefit of buying them back at a loss now, sit the sidelines, sell something else or use the free'd cash to buy shares sub-180. It's still tough placing that buy-back order.
Fidelity has calculator where you can simulate a stock price change and see how much margin you have left. I'm assuming other brokerages have something similar. The problem is they can suddenly decide you have a higher margin requirement on the shares you own and suddenly your healthy margin evaporates. They did this to me in 2022.
 
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Thank you (I don't see a like button for other people's posts). I read that the wash sale rule applies to options with different strike dates of the same underlying stock (i.e., TSLA). If that is the case, will the cost basis of my most recently purchased TSLA related security be adjusted up and I can only realize the capital losses if I stop trading for a full 30 days?
Most people do not agree with that definition, and as far as I can tell, Fidelity does not go by that definition either. (This has been discussed here before - don't know how you would search for it). It has to be the same stock or same option. Different strike or different dates are completely different, even if it is for the same underlying stock, which is why the premiums are different.

Edit: The entire wash thing is stupid. You eventually have a gain or loss and pay the required taxes. Doesn't really matter how you got there.
 
I have closed all of the SMCI positions except for a little +P795 that just expired worthless.
Profits through the roof, far better than the two very good C660 NVDA-days.
Furthermore At the end of the day I was 80% cash. Don't know why and as Tom Nash always says. "If you try to time the market this way you have to be right two times in a row, which is insane." So don't copy me. I will let y'all know how that went wrong after the fact, as always. Last time I had regrets about such. But you can';t always be wrong, do you?
Have nice long weekend.
TSLA position: -C190 for next week (yeah that's all)
Biggest other holdings: Long Palantir and Tomra, Short NVDA
 
Divergence and basing:

From an oversold state, if the stock is ready to rally, what I look for is an overbought reading on the 15m. From there, the stock should pull back a little as buyers are still skittish and sellers are still eager to get out.

For example, TSLA entered Oversold territory on the daily (the mother timeframe) on January 18th, before ER.
1708186180362.png

Then on Monday the 22nd, the stock got to overbought on the 15m.
1708186512575.png
However, it was still far below the 10 SMA (green moving average) on the daily (the only one that matters for MA tracking purpose) and it would take a good ER to spike up and reclaim it. We already know what happened. That was not the bottom.
1708186625512.png

Once the SP touched 180 after ER, it bounced back up and reach overbought on the 15m for the 2nd time on January 29th.
1708186757603.png

After running up a bit more, it dropped again and carved out a lower low at 175 on Feb 5th. However, at the close on that day, we had what we didn't have before, a bullish divergence on the daily RSI. What it means is the stock made a lower low on the daily, but its RSI is less negative than it was on the 25th @ 180. There were big sellers who relentlessly sold the stock without giving it any breather since 265 to 180, which is visualized on both the price chart and the RSI chart. The slope of the decline was steep. However, when we go from Jan 25th to Feb 5th, those sellers seem to have disappeared and the sellers present on that day failed to bring the stock back to its old steep decline trajectory. That's what a bullish divergence means. We need a lower low on the SP after a few days of consolidation which represents the disappointment and panic stemmed from what seemed like a failed attempt at rallying; these late sellers would soon be proven wrong.

Within 2 days, the stock popped back up and took out the declining 10 SMA at 186.5, a show of strength.
1708186941032.png

From here, we were looking for more show of strength to be registered on the 1h, 2h, 4h and daily timeframe. What is this show of strength? It's when the stock reaches Overbought on each of these timeframes. It takes progressively more buying to reach it on the daily than it does on the 4h than it does on the 2h than it does on the 1h.

The implication of reaching overbought on each of these timeframes is the stock will have a very high chance of breaking that high after some consolidation. The consolidation that comes after reaching Overbought is the result of buyers still being skittish in this area. They want to take their profit fast and safely here so the early peaks get sold into more quickly than the ones that form later.

On 2/9, the stock almost reached Overbought on the hourly at 194 very early in the morning, pulled back and then made another attempt at cracking 194 in the afternoon, resulting a double top pattern with lower RSI reading. This is a bearish divergence that shows buying has dried up and it's time for a pullback for the skittishly bullish buyers to digest their gain.
1708188071738.png


And indeed it sold all the way down to 182 on Tuesday. This was when a lot of people started panicking and began preparing for a lower low. However, the stock had shown us strength in 3 ways:

1. Bullish divergence on the daily, which should trump bearish divergence on the hourly
2. A reclaim, although briefly, of the 10 daily SMA
3. Overbought reading on the hourly

Once we're done with the hourly, it was the 2h turn. The stock reached it late Thursday 2/15 and then reached a peak of 201.3 early Friday 2/16. So it's shown strength on the 2h. Just like what happened on the hourly, what we can expect from here is:

1. Some consolidation that should last a bit longer than 2 days, which was the length of the last consolidation.
2. As the stock has reached overbought on the 2h, it should rally at the end of this consolidation and take out the peak on Friday

1708188863212.png


However, as we're approaching the strong 209.3 resistance. Keep an eye out for a few things:

1. Yes, the stock has shown strength on the 2h, but will it show it on the 4h and take us up further? Meaning, once it has taken out 201.30 (closing over 201.3 on any 2h candle, not just breaking it intra-candle), will the next candles be green until it's reached overbought on the 4h?
2. On the day when it takes out 201.3, will the highest closing price far exceed 201.3, resulting in an even higher RSI reading on the 2h compared to the peak of 72.43 on Friday? If not, we're just going to have a bigger bearish divergence, now on the 2h, leading to another pullback which can morph into a full blown correction, possibly marking the end of this recovery.

1 and 2 are very closely related. If either one happens, the other often follows. However, we will be happy with just one. If none happens, then be very careful on that day and prepare for a steep correction. I sure hope the stock can go further than just the 2h timeframe but we trade the chart, not what we wish to happen.

For the record, the 4h RSI is right now sitting at 60.8. To reach 70, I estimate it needs to reach 215 minimum. The good news is it had reached it in both of the big DCBs we had in 2023.
1708189607572.png
 

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Knowing there's EW fans in here thought it might be amusing:

Fortunately I'm not getting myself into this game. Never knew you can adjust prices before counting. Mental gymnastic?
I've found that wave counting on individual stock yields much better results than done on indices.
Wave counting on the intermediate time horizon (weekly -> yearly) is more reliable than both the micro (daily) (too much gyration) and the macro (multi-years) (too many changes on the fundamental and macro levels)
The entire history of the market is like a tree where a big branch is made up of smaller branches which are then made up of even smaller branches. Problem with some people is they try to play God and count the whole tree down to the leaves while money can be made just counting the leaves and smaller branches. Gotta accept the limitations of EWT or you'll drown.
 
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How did you calculate that you'd have enough extrinsic to survive $165? Show me how, please. I have the same expiry and strike puts as CSP. Although they are green, they are there from a red roll, so not really green. Hearing of potential to retrace, I can see the benefit of buying them back at a loss now, sit the sidelines, sell something else or use the free'd cash to buy shares sub-180. It's still tough placing that buy-back order.

Mine are also synthetically green from a roll, but I see buying-to-close them for these gains as a win, reducing the loss from the roll, especially if we're going down from here and the gains will drain out. Then best case is re-selling the same (or better) short puts at the new lows which will increase gains on the way back up, while doubling the roundtrip back up to where we closed them.

Re guessing extrinsic at new lows, I believe there's no 100% accurate way, but I derived mine from the fact that I previously held 15x -P290 9/2024 and when we were trading at $175 it showed around $0.45 extrinsic. To protect myself in case TSLA fell further, I rolled it down and out then to 15x -P280 1/2025 (I paid about $8k BTW for the extra $10 down with some gains from -C's that went to 100% on the drop) and gained about +/- $2.70 in extrinsic (now $6.32 and the -P290 Sept 2024 is $2.90). So I guesstimate that my roll bought me about another $10-$15 dollars or so in down protection to $165-$160. Not a perfect science but a guess.

Generally, after absorbing what @dl003 and @Max Plaid wrote here on Friday about how to think about when to close short calls and taking profits in general after a $25 dollar recovery ($275 to $200) that may stall out, my general plan is as follows:

If TSLA gets up to $205-$209 and DOESN'T close candles above, I'll look to:
1) Close the short puts (will necessitate use about $100k of margin which I'm not thrilled about, but it's only about 10% of what the account can handle, and it will be for a short time because I plan to resell the puts at the next low (if TSLA shoots back up then I'll just re-sell them right away))
2) Close any long LEAP calls, even at a loss (re-buy back lower=gains)
3) Leave all short calls in place (I have a modest amount spread out between February 23 and August 16 (between $220 and $260)
4) Possibly sell 50% of my longs. If we break down through $194 with volume, possibly sell the other 50% because we may be going down next to $180-$170.
5) Wait for TSLA to find its new bottom, perhaps enter a congestion zone if it doesn't shoot right back up, and resell a new CSP to cover the margin and gain from the coming upside, rebuy the LEAPS calls, rebuy the longs, and hopefully enjoy some gains too for all the work.

If TSLA gets up to $205-$209 and DOES close candles above, I'll look to:
1) Keep everything in place until there's more clarity how high the run may go -- and implement the above plan where we top.
2) Buy some +C270 1/2025 to ride the wave up. With almost .40 delta this one has been a good gains-scalper for me this past week.

Basically, as long as TSLA trades below Friday’s high, possibly looking for a slightly lower low to complete the corrective structure. Back above today's high says that something else is playing out and could target $205-$211 next.

With the caveat about the best laid plans and all that, at least this is roughly what I have in mind.

I'm open to comments, ideas and suggestions!
 
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Divergence and basing:

From an oversold state, if the stock is ready to rally, what I look for is an overbought reading on the 15m. From there, the stock should pull back a little as buyers are still skittish and sellers are still eager to get out.

For example, TSLA entered Oversold territory on the daily (the mother timeframe) on January 18th, before ER.
View attachment 1019273
Then on Monday the 22nd, the stock got to overbought on the 15m.
View attachment 1019276However, it was still far below the 10 SMA (green moving average) on the daily (the only one that matters for MA tracking purpose) and it would take a good ER to spike up and reclaim it. We already know what happened. That was not the bottom.
View attachment 1019278
Once the SP touched 180 after ER, it bounced back up and reach overbought on the 15m for the 2nd time on January 29th.
View attachment 1019279
After running up a bit more, it dropped again and carved out a lower low at 175 on Feb 5th. However, at the close on that day, we had what we didn't have before, a bullish divergence on the daily RSI. What it means is the stock made a lower low on the daily, but its RSI is less negative than it was on the 25th @ 180. There were big sellers who relentlessly sold the stock without giving it any breather since 265 to 180, which is visualized on both the price chart and the RSI chart. The slope of the decline was steep. However, when we go from Jan 25th to Feb 5th, those sellers seem to have disappeared and the sellers present on that day failed to bring the stock back to its old steep decline trajectory. That's what a bullish divergence means. We need a lower low on the SP after a few days of consolidation which represents the disappointment and panic stemmed from what seemed like a failed attempt at rallying; these late sellers would soon be proven wrong.

Within 2 days, the stock popped back up and took out the declining 10 SMA at 186.5, a show of strength.
View attachment 1019280
From here, we were looking for more show of strength to be registered on the 1h, 2h, 4h and daily timeframe. What is this show of strength? It's when the stock reaches Overbought on each of these timeframes. It takes progressively more buying to reach it on the daily than it does on the 4h than it does on the 2h than it does on the 1h.

The implication of reaching overbought on each of these timeframes is the stock will have a very high chance of breaking that high after some consolidation. The consolidation that comes after reaching Overbought is the result of buyers still being skittish in this area. They want to take their profit fast and safely here so the early peaks get sold into more quickly than the ones that form later.

On 2/9, the stock almost reached Overbought on the hourly at 194 very early in the morning, pulled back and then made another attempt at cracking 194 in the afternoon, resulting a double top pattern with lower RSI reading. This is a bearish divergence that shows buying has dried up and it's time for a pullback for the skittishly bullish buyers to digest their gain.
View attachment 1019284

And indeed it sold all the way down to 182 on Tuesday. This was when a lot of people started panicking and began preparing for a lower low. However, the stock had shown us strength in 3 ways:

1. Bullish divergence on the daily, which should trump bearish divergence on the hourly
2. A reclaim, although briefly, of the 10 daily SMA
3. Overbought reading on the hourly

Once we're done with the hourly, it was the 2h turn. The stock reached it late Thursday 2/15 and then reached a peak of 201.3 early Friday 2/16. So it's shown strength on the 2h. Just like what happened on the hourly, what we can expect from here is:

1. Some consolidation that should last a bit longer than 2 days, which was the length of the last consolidation.
2. As the stock has reached overbought on the 2h, it should rally at the end of this consolidation and take out the peak on Friday

View attachment 1019286

However, as we're approaching the strong 209.3 resistance. Keep an eye out for a few things:

1. Yes, the stock has shown strength on the 2h, but will it show it on the 4h and take us up further? Meaning, once it has taken out 201.30 (closing over 201.3 on any 2h candle, not just breaking it intra-candle), will the next candles be green until it's reached overbought on the 4h?
2. On the day when it takes out 201.3, will the highest closing price far exceed 201.3, resulting in an even higher RSI reading on the 2h compared to the peak of 72.43 on Friday? If not, we're just going to have a bigger bearish divergence, now on the 2h, leading to another pullback which can morph into a full blown correction, possibly marking the end of this recovery.

1 and 2 are very closely related. If either one happens, the other often follows. However, we will be happy with just one. If none happens, then be very careful on that day and prepare for a steep correction. I sure hope the stock can go further than just the 2h timeframe but we trade the chart, not what we wish to happen.

For the record, the 4h RSI is right now sitting at 60.8. To reach 70, I estimate it needs to reach 215 minimum. The good news is it had reached it in both of the big DCBs we had in 2023.
View attachment 1019292


Fabulous write up and lots of good insight, I'm printing and saving this!

A couple of questions so I can understand better, as you said you invite discourse on your posts:

1) "Bullish divergence on the daily, which should trump bearish divergence on the hourly." Don't changes on the daily stem from the hourly, so a bearish divergence on the hourly is the most recent fact and it'll take some time to reflect on the daily and may be too late by then to take action?

2) Does $209.03 resistance replace the $206.86 strong resistance mentioned earlier on Friday?

Thank you.
 
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Divergence and basing:

From an oversold state, if the stock is ready to rally, what I look for is an overbought reading on the 15m. From there, the stock should pull back a little as buyers are still skittish and sellers are still eager to get out.

For example, TSLA entered Oversold territory on the daily (the mother timeframe) on January 18th, before ER.
View attachment 1019273
Then on Monday the 22nd, the stock got to overbought on the 15m.
View attachment 1019276However, it was still far below the 10 SMA (green moving average) on the daily (the only one that matters for MA tracking purpose) and it would take a good ER to spike up and reclaim it. We already know what happened. That was not the bottom.
View attachment 1019278
Once the SP touched 180 after ER, it bounced back up and reach overbought on the 15m for the 2nd time on January 29th.
View attachment 1019279
After running up a bit more, it dropped again and carved out a lower low at 175 on Feb 5th. However, at the close on that day, we had what we didn't have before, a bullish divergence on the daily RSI. What it means is the stock made a lower low on the daily, but its RSI is less negative than it was on the 25th @ 180. There were big sellers who relentlessly sold the stock without giving it any breather since 265 to 180, which is visualized on both the price chart and the RSI chart. The slope of the decline was steep. However, when we go from Jan 25th to Feb 5th, those sellers seem to have disappeared and the sellers present on that day failed to bring the stock back to its old steep decline trajectory. That's what a bullish divergence means. We need a lower low on the SP after a few days of consolidation which represents the disappointment and panic stemmed from what seemed like a failed attempt at rallying; these late sellers would soon be proven wrong.

Within 2 days, the stock popped back up and took out the declining 10 SMA at 186.5, a show of strength.
View attachment 1019280
From here, we were looking for more show of strength to be registered on the 1h, 2h, 4h and daily timeframe. What is this show of strength? It's when the stock reaches Overbought on each of these timeframes. It takes progressively more buying to reach it on the daily than it does on the 4h than it does on the 2h than it does on the 1h.

The implication of reaching overbought on each of these timeframes is the stock will have a very high chance of breaking that high after some consolidation. The consolidation that comes after reaching Overbought is the result of buyers still being skittish in this area. They want to take their profit fast and safely here so the early peaks get sold into more quickly than the ones that form later.

On 2/9, the stock almost reached Overbought on the hourly at 194 very early in the morning, pulled back and then made another attempt at cracking 194 in the afternoon, resulting a double top pattern with lower RSI reading. This is a bearish divergence that shows buying has dried up and it's time for a pullback for the skittishly bullish buyers to digest their gain.
View attachment 1019284

And indeed it sold all the way down to 182 on Tuesday. This was when a lot of people started panicking and began preparing for a lower low. However, the stock had shown us strength in 3 ways:

1. Bullish divergence on the daily, which should trump bearish divergence on the hourly
2. A reclaim, although briefly, of the 10 daily SMA
3. Overbought reading on the hourly

Once we're done with the hourly, it was the 2h turn. The stock reached it late Thursday 2/15 and then reached a peak of 201.3 early Friday 2/16. So it's shown strength on the 2h. Just like what happened on the hourly, what we can expect from here is:

1. Some consolidation that should last a bit longer than 2 days, which was the length of the last consolidation.
2. As the stock has reached overbought on the 2h, it should rally at the end of this consolidation and take out the peak on Friday

View attachment 1019286

However, as we're approaching the strong 209.3 resistance. Keep an eye out for a few things:

1. Yes, the stock has shown strength on the 2h, but will it show it on the 4h and take us up further? Meaning, once it has taken out 201.30 (closing over 201.3 on any 2h candle, not just breaking it intra-candle), will the next candles be green until it's reached overbought on the 4h?
2. On the day when it takes out 201.3, will the highest closing price far exceed 201.3, resulting in an even higher RSI reading on the 2h compared to the peak of 72.43 on Friday? If not, we're just going to have a bigger bearish divergence, now on the 2h, leading to another pullback which can morph into a full blown correction, possibly marking the end of this recovery.

1 and 2 are very closely related. If either one happens, the other often follows. However, we will be happy with just one. If none happens, then be very careful on that day and prepare for a steep correction. I sure hope the stock can go further than just the 2h timeframe but we trade the chart, not what we wish to happen.

For the record, the 4h RSI is right now sitting at 60.8. To reach 70, I estimate it needs to reach 215 minimum. The good news is it had reached it in both of the big DCBs we had in 2023.
View attachment 1019292
Thanks for the exceptionally informative post @dl003

Just wondering what settings you use for RSI in Tradingview as yours appears to be slightly more dampened than what I see on mine with the standard 14 period length setting.