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If you can afford a model x you can afford the idle charges. Take it as a learning lesson and move on. 5 minutes is more than enough sport.
This seems to depend on so many variables. I charge around the Southeast mainly, and it is often a very long walk from the charging station to anything else (i.e., restaurants). OK, so I put the car on charge (say, it needs 45 minutes' worth, i.e., battery low and the next leg of the trip is long), then walk 8- 10 minutes (yes, it takes this long at the Atlanta or Mobile SC) to a restaurant... then it takes another 20 minutes before I can wait in line, get a table, order, and get my food... about the time I finish my salad, I get a notification "Almost finished charging!" - uh... OK, do I jump up and walk back to the car to move it (yeah, by the time I get back in 15 minutes, sweaty, my lasagna will have been delivered and is now cold).... argh, next time I am going to have a new plan. Swing thru McDonalds on the way to the SC and eat it in the car... not the upscale experience Tesla was really going for, in a $100K+ car.
No, I think that Tesla's recent announcement that they plan to build some nice facilities (eatstops, etc) around SCs is most welcome. Some of the amenities around current SCs (particularly rural) are quite rudimentary. The ones that really make me crazy are where the amenities around the SC observe normal workday business hours... that is, unless you are there on a weekday between 8 AM and 6 PM the restaurants and even restrooms are closed. Man, I was tempted to pee between the parked vehicles on a Sunday morning in downtown Birmingham. I would actually prefer that the SC be at a truck stop (think good truck stops like Pilot Flying J, Love's, etc.) that is open 24/7, well lit, with rest rooms and food.
Is all this rant relevant to the question of idle charges? Sure. Put the SC where I don't have to stress about getting back to the car to avoid charges.
No, I think that Tesla's recent announcement that they plan to build some nice facilities (eatstops, etc) around SCs is most welcome. Some of the amenities around current SCs (particularly rural) are quite rudimentary. The ones that really make me crazy are where the amenities around the SC observe normal workday business hours... that is, unless you are there on a weekday between 8 AM and 6 PM the restaurants and even restrooms are closed. Man, I was tempted to pee between the parked vehicles on a Sunday morning in downtown Birmingham. I would actually prefer that the SC be at a truck stop (think good truck stops like Pilot Flying J, Love's, etc.) that is open 24/7, well lit, with rest rooms and food.
Is all this rant relevant to the question of idle charges? Sure. Put the SC where I don't have to stress about getting back to the car to avoid charges.
The inconvenience for someone waiting to plugin supersedes your inconvenience of walking back to unplug. Irrespective of the environment or situation
Yes, we have reports of people paying them.
Good to know, I have only SC'ed once and it was before idle.
Not a bad point, about the meter, although as someone else already pointed out, the car's charging time is variable. Idle fee is sort of like overloading a parking meter to guarantee some extra time. I'm not really complaining, I choose to rent an ICE rather than road-trip with my Tesla (and no SCs in my area), but if I only had 5 minutes notice, I could see that being insufficient, as AB4EJ outlined in a more detailed example. Brett has told me I would have more than 5 minutes notice.
You can not trust that figure.
Due to stall sharing events, charger condition and taper the actual time can not be estimated with any reliability within 5 minutes. The time may vary even by 30-45 minutes.
The only way is to keeping looking at the app. Notifications are not reliable (too many experiences and reports of that), so you have to keep looking at it.
These are not unreasonable requests, in some form.
The idle charges have not been publicized to anyone who isn't hanging around on Tesla sites or forums or reading marketing emails. As many keep saying on TMC, most people aren't...
A one-time acceptance click on the big screen and some signs at the stations are a perfectly reasonable request.
If the terms change, letting people know of them within the context (not just on the Internet somewhere) is just basic stuff.
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jelloslug
Active Member
I'm here to cancel it out.
Look, I can live with a genuine disagreement on the grace. 
Old stuff...
I do have to admit I'm a bit surprised the idea of signs and dialogs notifying of idle charges got pushback. I thought that would be good news for everyone. Idle charges only work if people know about them and on the flipside people like me who have opinions about reasonable policies would be happier too.
Old stuff...I do have to admit I'm a bit surprised the idea of signs and dialogs notifying of idle charges got pushback. I thought that would be good news for everyone. Idle charges only work if people know about them and on the flipside people like me who have opinions about reasonable policies would be happier too.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I would agree if Tesla paid me at the same rate per hour if their estimate turns out of be wrong. If the car charged faster than estimate, then the sum is zero, they charge me idle fee and pay me for bad estimate (car said ETA 1hr so I went for 1hr meal, car done in 35mins, I should have to run out in the middle of the meal). Of course I make money if car takes longer, but that's just so that Tesla doesn't underestimate on purpose (since it would cost them).
Five minutes is definitely not long enough considering some chargers are we more than a five minute walk away from the nearest store etc. 15 minutes is reasonable.
But remember that you get more than a 5 minute warning. You can check in the app at any time to see when the charge is predicted to end and you get several warning notifications as it gets close to finishing before the 5 minute counter even starts.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Parking meter doesn't tell you "you have 60 minutes" and then start charging you penalty after 45 minutes because the car stopped charging. Phone warnings is not guaranteed to be received (e.g. no data coverage), and even if they are, you may be more than 5 minutes away from the SC.
whitex
Well-Known Member
If Tesla had reliable self-parking on private property and robo-snake SC - both promised by Elon back when AP1 was announced, this wouldn't be a problem - the car would simply unplug itself and park. Idle fees are just a problem created by Tesla not delivering on Elon's promises. He had it perfectly planned out.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
Look, I can live with a genuine disagreement on the grace.
I do have to admit I'm a bit surprised the idea of signs and dialogs notifying of idle charges got pushback. I thought that would be good news for everyone. Idle charges only work if people know about them and on the flipside people like me who have opinions about reasonable policies would be happier too.
There are two separate issues here. First is the owner informed consent on the idle fees. I could get on-board with a warning dialog on the center console and/or the phone. But there's some issues:
1. A warning on the center console could easily go unnoticed. Most people park at the SC, get out, shut the driver's door, then plug in. A warning on the center console at that point is not in front of anyone. If the owner walks away to go eat after plugging in, he'll never see it.
2. Idle fees are only levied if the stalls at the SC are more than half full. You might be the only one there when you first plug in (therefore no idle fee would be applied), but the stalls might fill up while you're gone, subjecting you to a possible idle fee. The only way you could get informed consent from the owner at that point is through the phone app, which already has warnings.
Second issue being discussed is 5 minute grace period after charge completion until idle fees begin accruing. Seems reasonable to me. If other people are waiting to charge, they need the stall, pure and simple, and waiting for you to take a leisurely stroll back from lunch is an unreasonable expectation.
The estimated time in the app and the center console may indeed not be accurate, but in almost 100% of cases, the estimate is optimistic. In other words, if you plug in and the car says that the charge will take 25 minutes, you can be nearly certain it will never be less than that. If you're back at the car 25 minutes later, you will virtually never be charged an idle fee. Use this method if you don't have your phone or you aren't getting reception.
If you do have the app up and working, you have an out if you really need it. If you can't make it back to the SC in time, just open the app, increase your charge limit, and start charging again. This can buy you a little extra time before the idle fee gets levied.
