(Reported on 12/26/2015) 11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch!

[Soolim]

First thing that went through my mind when I saw Porsche's 800V claim - where are they going to get that kind of voltage to supply several "stalls" of their own "superchargers?" It's marketing. MOST people will charge at home and this will be of no benefit to them.

Utility company transforms high voltage from either 12.5kV or 13.8kV in the area to either 480V which is the standard industrial voltage or 208V / 240V for commercial area. The Porsche "supercharger" then converts that voltage to the 800Vdc with transformer and rectifier power converter. No different than what Tesla is doing now other than 400V (Tesla) vs 800V (Porsche).
While it is true that most people will charge at home, as in Tesla, the shorter charging time does have an advantage in similar condition as is happening in CA, and will be unavoidable unless the Tesla supercharger build-out is fast enough to catch-up with the coming X and 3.

 

[mmccord]

It looks to me like Tejon is the Newark DE of the West.

 

[MITE46]

Ouch that looks horrible. It's hard to skip Tejon unless you want to drive really really slow. At 80A, I think you would need a little more than 2.5 hours to get 135RR...so unless the wait time is more than 2 hours, I image SC is still faster.

Tejon is a great location for stopping though, I thought they had the same 750kva transformer in Tejon as they do in Harris. I don't see why they don't just copy Harris and add 4 additional temporary stalls (conduits exposed) until something else is figured out?

 

[Soolim]

local business owners!


None of these businesses see the opportunity yet, of installing a couple HAL2 to pick up some business from Supercharger Overflow?
"Waiting? Sit down at our table and feed all your hungry batteries. FREE 70A charging code with purchase of a Family Meal and a HomeMade Pie. CLEAN RESTROOMS!"
Or CHAdeMO (loaner Tesla Adapter on site) for faster turnaround, more likely.
Give it time. One of 'em will figure it out and then others will Follow The Money.

Make sense. The local business owners are there to casually monitor the wait time, and might act accordingly if space, permitting, and utility power is readily available. Just wondering when will private charging station can be commercial viable if it is priced competitively to gas? Would Tesla be willing to sell the supercharger unit to private commercial entity at cost?

 

[SW2Fiddler]

Make sense. The local business owners are there to casually monitor the wait time, and might act accordingly if space, permitting, and utility power is readily available.

Are they seeing this happen (Stack of Teslas, Bored Tesla Drivers ) most weekends, or just the 2-3 times a year on Big Travel Weekends?

If Mama TM "fixes it for us" too quickly, Free Enterprise won't be able to see the Golden (Egg) Opportunity. Which is the better long-term trend?

And re:the picture "being bad PR for Tesla"... How many LEAFs do we see there traveling over the pass? How many BOLTs will we see in Holiday Season 2017? LOL I bet 5%-to-none vs Teslas.

 

[Soolim]

Are they seeing this happen (Stack of Teslas, Bored Tesla Drivers ) most weekends, or just the 2-3 times a year on Big Travel Weekends?

If Mama TM "fixes it for us" too quickly, Free Enterprise won't be able to see the Golden (Egg) Opportunity. Which is the better long-term trend?

And re:the picture "being bad PR for Tesla"... How many LEAFs do we see there traveling over the pass? How many BOLTs will we see in Holiday Season 2017? LOL I bet 5%-to-none vs Teslas.

Free enterprise will be my choice, and I assumed that of Elon as well. If they can get private entity to displace 5% of gas station with charging station, then Tesla is a success.

 

[Spidy]

...

And re:the picture "being bad PR for Tesla"... How many LEAFs do we see there traveling over the pass? How many BOLTs will we see in Holiday Season 2017? LOL I bet 5%-to-none vs Teslas.

How many of these cars/manufacturers actually advertise long distance travel and 30min charge times? Grab a cup of coffee or a bite to eat while your Model S charges!

Meanwhile on the Nissan Leaf website...
Public charging stations are third-party owned not within Nissan's control. Availability of charging stations not guaranteed.

People buy the Model S, because it allows them to travel long distances and isn't just a city/commuter car like a lot of the other EVs. For that they are paying an premium price and expect their expectations to be met. It's like saying it's not bad press for Porsche when their car can't go 300kph, because a Nissan Altima can't do that either.

 

[Soolim]

How many of these cars/manufacturers actually advertise long distance travel and 30min charge times? Grab a cup of coffee or a bite to eat while your Model S charges!

Meanwhile on the Nissan Leaf website...
Public charging stations are third-party owned not within Nissan's control. Availability of charging stations not guaranteed.

People buy the Model S, because it allows them to travel long distances and isn't just a city/commuter car like a lot of the other EVs. For that they are paying an premium price and expect their expectations to be met. It's like saying it's not bad press for Porsche when their car can't go 300kph, because a Nissan Altima can't do that either.

Well said and I agree. Expectation of Tesla is of course higher. Hope the Mission E will come soon:wink:
Bolt and Leaf are of different price point.

 

[purplewalt]

I don't see this as a "huge" problem, because this only occurs 3 or 4 times a year during heaviest road travel holidays.

Perhaps if most of the drivers deployed a slightly different strategy, most of you would not even need to be stopping @ Tejon Ranch: Simply drive at a slower speed.

The S85 drivers could slow down a bit and circumvent stopping @ Tejon Ranch and be on their way.
The 60 drivers will need to stop and recharge.
When I drove to the West Coast last year, I stopped @ Barstow, and made it to Harris Ranch (231 miles) on that single charge (Mojave did not exist).

You guys (in S85) that are waiting at Tejon Ranch are wasting more time waiting for a recharge @ the Supercharger than simply driving at slower speeds.
It just takes a different driving strategy than what you have been using.
What if you just went directly to Oxnard? (206 miles)
Or Culver City? (199 miles)
Or use a L2 charge somewhere along the route?

Yes, it takes discipline, and practice.
You already have the EV with the most range in the world.
Why not learn simply learn how to use it effectively?
And then you can quit queuing up to wait at the "only Supercharger" that will get you to your next destination.

Check out the duration of time the OP waited in line, before getting to the Supercharger.
ONE HOUR AND 45 MINUTES.
Driving (slower and) past Tejon Ranch to the next destination is actually a time SAVER.

 

[RDoc]

I don't see how it would make sense for local businesses to install chargers or, for that matter, how it would help Tesla drivers.

A typical J1772 charger is only useful if you can stay there for at least a couple of hours, so unless the local business is a restaurant which serves full dinners lasting a couple of hours, a theater, etc. it's not of much use to the drivers. For the businesses, the few times per year that the Supercharger is backed up is the only time the charger will make any difference, which means that the cost has to be amortized over perhaps 20 additional patrons per year. That doesn't sound like it's going to be a profitable investment.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch AVOID IF YOU CAN!!!!

@purplewalt, even when driving slow speeds i.e. the speed limit of 70 mph (anything slower can be quite painful if not dangerous on I-5 in the Central Valley stretch), it's practically impossible to get from/to Harris to/from one of the LA Superchargers, because of the elevation change through the Grapevine - even more so if it's very cold or very hot.

I had a messy experience at Tejon during the July 4th travel weekend that I posted about before; Tesla went out of their way to help out back then. But, we obviously need a more scalable solution.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

... it allows them to travel long distances and isn't just a city/commuter car like a lot of the other EVs.

Thanks! That's the point I was TRYING to make but missed (judging by responses).
The "bad press" pic is evidence that many many more Teslas are being taken on drives.

As for "price paid earns elevated entitlement," repeated so much hereabouts, that won't be the only game in town when there are BOLTs and Models III rolling around in the hands of the unwashed masses. And you know, they get just as hungry/bored as the high-price-payers.
Opportunities abound to attract/capture consumers, and because of that we won't just have to await TM and GM and NM to deploy ALL charging infrastructure. Won't and can't.
TL;dr Murica.

 

[SFOTurtle]

@purplewalt, even when driving slow speeds i.e. the speed limit of 70 mph (anything slower can be quite painful if not dangerous on I-5 in the Central Valley stretch), it's practically impossible to get from/to Harris to/from one of the LA Superchargers, because of the elevation change through the Grapevine - even more so if it's very cold or very hot.

I had a messy experience at Tejon during the July 4th travel weekend that I posted about before; Tesla went out of their way to help out back then. But, we obviously need a more scalable solution.

Even more important than ambient temperature is the wind. Heading northbound, a decent headwind will make this trip impossible. In November, we had both cold temps and the fiercest headwind I've ever driven in. We left Pasadena with a full charge, drove sensibly over the Grapevine, and we would have only made it halfway to Harris Ranch. We left Tejon with 240 rated miles (had a long stop there to do some clean up and we were the only car there on a Monday), and we made it to Harris with 30 rated miles doing about 80 mph. Strong headwind is putting it mildly.

 

[AudubonB]

I do have sympathy for those who have to wait such a long time at a SpC. Even the long gas lines in the US during the fuel crisis of the early 1970s rarely lasted that long. This thread, however, could be a reasonable place to start a discussion on priorities, as follows:

Preamble:
IF you are endowed with infinite resources as well as infinite power over local Zoning, etc., bureaucracies, THEN the following is not worthy of contemplating. For the remainder of the universe's inhabitants, it can be useful.

Query:
If you have limited resources, what gets you best combination of -
*the biggest bang for your buck
*the most utility for the most number of current Tesla owners
*the most utility for future Tesla owners - both near-term and further out
*the highest-quality exposure to the general public for Tesla Motors
*the largest advancement of TM's announced long-term goals

Is it:
*increasing the number of slots at a high-usage site like Tejon Ranch so as to facilitate peak drive-days like holidays around July 4, Thanksgiving, Xmas and New Year's?
*broadening the general web of NoAm (Eur, Asia, etc) SpCs?
*pursuing a Wow! route - for example, creating a string of SpCs between a bucket-list drive/destination site like between the lesser-48 and Alaska?
*etc.

Anyone who has read more than ten percent of my own posts knows my own answer to the above....Your Priorities May Vary.

I might make use of my Awesome Powers Of Moderation to carve this out to its own thread, but it reasonably can stay here, as well.

 

[purplewalt]

@gg_got_a_tesla
I dispute your that driving less than 70 mph (posted speed limit) is a safety hazard.
There are multiple tractors and wagons on I-5 with loads of tomatoes I encountered, and they were certainly not going 70 mph.

The alternative to driving fast and waiting for your place in line is simply learn to drive at a slower speed in the right lane.
Or plan to wait ONE HOUR AND 45 MINUTES @ Tejon.

There are effective driving strategies that will assist even with the elevation changes to make the trip possible to Oxnard or Culver City or Mojave.
YMMV, and your time may be better spent driving than waiting in a queue.

- - - Updated - - -

Even more important than ambient temperature is the wind. Heading northbound, a decent headwind will make this trip impossible. In November, we had both cold temps and the fiercest headwind I've ever driven in. We left Pasadena with a full charge, drove sensibly over the Grapevine, and we would have only made it halfway to Harris Ranch. We left Tejon with 240 rated miles (had a long stop there to do some clean up and we were the only car there on a Monday), and we made it to Harris with 30 rated miles doing about 80 mph. Strong headwind is putting it mildly.

If the posted speed is 70 mph, why in heaven's sake are you driving @ 80 mph into a headwind?
That is a recipe for disaster.
The biggest waster of energy is trying to move the car through the static block of air.
And if it is blowing hard into your face, you are not driving effectively.

Guys who think they are the only drivers on the road drive 80 mph into a strong headwind.
People who share the road and desire to get to their destination (with a decent amount of remaining range) drive effectively, hence slower.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch AVOID IF YOU CAN!!!!

I don't see how it would make sense for local businesses to install chargers or, for that matter, how it would help Tesla drivers.

A typical J1772 charger is only useful if you can stay there for at least a couple of hours, so unless the local business is a restaurant which serves full dinners lasting a couple of hours, a theater, etc. it's not of much use to the drivers.

Ugh, I agree about the "typical (Compliance) J1772s. I'd like to see the end of anemic 30-Amp as soon as attrition allows.
I suppose I'm envisioning 80A minimum, on up thru various CHAdeMO and competitive DC charge. At these mid-trip depots/feedlots.

Multi-hour Destinations of course can deploy the more economical J stuff but please relegate that 30A end of things to the overnights.

 

[Lump]

(from Plugshare)

 

[ecarfan]

11+ car wait at Tejon Ranch AVOID IF YOU CAN!!!!

Perhaps if most of the drivers deployed a slightly different strategy, most of you would not even need to be stopping @ Tejon Ranch: Simply drive at a slower speed...
Or use a L2 charge somewhere along the route?
Yes, it takes discipline, and practice.

We agree that the recent wait line at Tejon is unusual, and that is exactly why those drivers pictured waiting in line did not anticipate it.
The flaw I see in your proposal is that those drivers photographed waiting in a line to charge at Tejon did not know in advance that all the chargers were in use and that other cars were waiting. That is a very unusual situation at Tejon, as you pointed out in your post.
As has been discussed many times before on TMC, Tesla has real time information as to how many cars are charging at an SC, their state of charge and how long it will be before they have enough charge to proceed, and even how many other Teslas are parked very close to the SC but not charging and the state of charge of those cars and how long they will need to charge before they can proceed, as well as other cars headed toward Tejon because it lies along the route in their nav.
Using all that information, Tesla could inform all Teslas within hundreds of miles from Tejon that have a nav route set for Tejon as to the level of activity at Tejon and offer alternate routes that avoid Tejon or inform drivers the option of slowing down so they could avoid Tejon altogether (when Buttonwillow SC comes online that will certainly be a feasible alternative, but as of now it isn't for most cars headed for north for a charge at Tejon).
I could go on and on describing how such a system would work, but you get the idea. I am confident that Tesla has such a system on their "to do" list but have no idea when it will actually be implemented. Surely it is doable, and is a fairly complex problem, but it is a solvable one.

 

[AudubonB]

...it is doable, and is a fairly complex problem, but it is a solvable one.

And with utmost surety an organization whose sister operation can throw a pencil to the height of the Empire State Building and have it come down landing upright atop a dime can also handle those complexities.

 

[russman]

Couple comments as I was one of the people in line.

- The temp was about 30's, combined with headwind, weight in the car, etc... I used the most rated I've ever used on this drive. Typically, I recommend a 30% cushion, meaning 1.3 miles for ever real mile driven. That's a huge cushion. At multiple stages it was 1.4 miles. This isn't snowy cold weather, it wasn't rainy either, but it was 34-37 degrees outside, combined with the wind. I filled up to 211 rated miles, even though the car told me I could leave at 140 miles. I ended up using 170 rated miles and was warned a number of times to drive slowly.

- I was able to call Tesla supercharger support and ask about Harris Ranch's availability, as a number of the southbound drivers said they had a long waits there at Harris Ranch and someone was helping to take names because it was messing up the parking lot. So for the people driving southbound, they had a 1+ hr wait and then hitting Tejon they had a 2 hr wait. So they added 3 hrs to their drive. When I left Tejon, another driver and I were discussing going to Atascadero instead, but I called Harris and they said only 4 stations where being used at the time, so I decided to go there. When I got there, it was not full still.

- One of the best things about the car is it's performance. If you've ever driven up a mountain in a Tesla, I equate it to ice skating, being able to drive by ice cars that just get loud trying to go up the mountain is part of the joy of the car. If I wanted to drive 60 in the middle of no-where, I'd have taken the bus. That's just me, if you enjoy driving slow, great for you. One of the reasons I stop at Tejon going south is so that I can fill up and glide up the mountain effortlessly as the cars on the right struggle. That is one of the biggest advertisements about the car when I talk to people.

- Sadly this line was not a positive site for non-tesla owners. People were laughing at the line. Do they understand that other electric cars like the Leaf can't even make it here and have larger issues? Absolutely not and they don't care. Ignorance is bliss and unfortunately, EV companies like Tesla have a mountain to climb in terms of perception and the perception in this case was, what a pain to own a Tesla. Not, WOW a Leaf can't even get to wait in line here, lucky for these Tesla people they have free charging and get to rest and enjoy a way here in the middle of nowhere.

- I'm not entirely sure knowing about this line would have changed anything for me, other then just not leave till late in the evening, but even then, this line was there for at least 6+ hours, as when I got there, I asked how long someone in the front of the line had waited and they were in line for over an hour. And when I left after 3 hours, there were still 14 cars in line, so even if no one lined up after that last person, that's still another 3 hours to go. Not sure I was have delayed my trip 6+ hours.... I think the only solution is more super chargers, like there are more gas stations.

- I didn't see any X's on this drive, so once those start ramping up, it's not going to get better. Add the model 3 to the mix and it's going to get worse.

- I'm sure Tesla is aware of the situation.

- Too bad battery swapping requires you to return the battery, otherwise I would have chosen that instead, but again, I'd have had to known I was going to wait 3 hours on the way back in the future.

- This does raise my concern about taking the S for the road trip in populated areas like this, as I had this concern 2 years ago when I took my first trip, but knew this time was coming.