"Proactive" 12v battery replacement - good idea or overkill?

[android04]

It helps, but after about a week or two, the error reappears((( so I'm looking for a way to order an original battery, and have it shipped to the Ukraine. If you can give me a link to order, I would appreciate it!

Original battery or not doesn't matter. But you have to follow the right sequence in installing the new one in order to reset the error message.

I don't know about where you live, but in the United States you can walk into any auto parts store, hardware store, or big shopping centers and find a Group Size 51R battery that works in Model 3.

 

[VitaliiMezza]

Original battery or not doesn't matter. But you have to follow the right sequence in installing the new one in order to reset the error message.

I don't know about where you live, but in the United States you can walk into any auto parts store, hardware store, or big shopping centers and find a Group Size 51R battery that works in Model 3.

If it didn't matter, I wouldn't be asking this question on the forum. Once again, 80 percent of tesla 3 owners, when installing a non-original battery, sooner or later get the error "12v battery must be replaced soon". We have whole forums on this issue, and the only effective solution to this problem - buying and installing 1129182-00-B hankook atlasbx. In Ukraine such sell for 500-700 dollars. Here I am looking for where to buy it cheaper, and necessarily new.

P.S - What kind of 12 volt battery do you use? I see you also have a Tesla 3.

 

[Flybyglass]

If it didn't matter, I wouldn't be asking this question on the forum. Once again, 80 percent of tesla 3 owners, when installing a non-original battery, sooner or later get the error "12v battery must be replaced soon". We have whole forums on this issue, and the only effective solution to this problem - buying and installing 1129182-00-B hankook atlasbx. In Ukraine such sell for 500-700 dollars. Here I am looking for where to buy it cheaper, and necessarily new.

P.S - What kind of 12 volt battery do you use? I see you also have a Tesla 3.

The latest software versions in service mode under the LV battery tab have a button to select battery type installing with an Atlas or a Varta which I believe is available in Europe. This note from the service manual :
"Note
If replacing a Clarios (Varta) 12V battery with an AtlasBX 12V battery, or vice-versa, make sure the vehicle is running software version 2023.32 or newer. Update the vehicle software if necessary; see Software Update."
Additionally:
CAUTION
Before installing the new 12V battery, make sure that the new battery's Open Circuit Voltage (OCV) is above 12.6V. If the OCV is between 12.4V and 12.6V, recharge the new battery. Any battery below 12.4V must be discarded.
If replacing a Clarios (Varta) 12V battery with an AtlasBX 12V battery, or vice-versa, update the vehicle configuration.
I am unable to locate the Varta part number from the parts manual here in the US but the Varta web site has part numbers depending on model 3 configuration. I also noted 2 distributors in Ukraine.
The major difference I see is the Varta has a lower CCA (around 330) versus the Atlas (625) and this may be the source of errors. I have noted on my own Model 3 periodically the car will do what I call a deep cycle test. It will apply load to the battery to bring it down to a low voltage (I have observed around 12.9-12.8) then recharge. Most likely the change in configuration in service mode changes the duration of the test and (lower CCA shorter test). Again just a guess.
You should have free access to both the parts manual and service manual logging into your Tesla account online (not via the app) which also should have the Varta part number in that part of the world.
I come up with this part number but verify on either the Tesla site or Varta site:

Blue Dynamic 545 156 033​

Vehicle software 2023.32 and higher should have this update to change battery type.
To enter service mode on software screen press and hold the model type for about 5 seconds. A pulse will be seen (invisible button) password is service and agree to prompts. In LV menu you will the the LV electrical system and there should be a button to change battery type.
As for vehicle error not using an Atlas I have used an Orielly (US distributor) 51R AGM with no errors. Also a DiehardEV B24L (AGM battery) with no errors. It is very helpful to follow the installation sequence as mentioned to erase messages and reset the system. Open the driver door and right rear passenger door and drop both windows. Leave doors open! Open Frunk. Leave open.
Essentially, remove usb devices, turn off environmental, close the Tesla app so it doesn't communicate (this will keep car awake) select "Power Off" and wait (I suggest about 15 minutes I wait until footwell lights off). Remove 12 volt negative terminal. Go under right rear seat (release tape slide toward left side of car) partially lift seat cushion about 8 inches lift out foam block. rotate gray tap down (this raises pull of battery) and set off to side. car is now depowered and let is site for about 30 minutes to totally de-energize systems. remove 12 volt positive terminal and vent hose and swap batteries. Reverse sequence installing positive terminal of 12 volt, connect main battery by pressing down plug and rotate gray lever-raise back up until it clicks fully up, replace foam block and press seat cushion back down until locks. What about 30 seconds before connection negative terminal on 12V. car reboots. The go into service mode, select LV battery and battery type and let car run sequence. When complete leave service mode by holding red button, then connect USB devices and reopen app. Car will stay awake 6 hours running what I call new battery initiallization. Normal sleep wake after that. You're done.
My DiehardEV B24L is 41Ah and 410CCA. I see other 51R batteries (they fit as well) all exceeding 33Ah usually 41Ah or higher with CCA's 435 or higher. The Varta is a 45Ah 330CCA but again of configured then it should work just fine.

 

[android04]

If it didn't matter, I wouldn't be asking this question on the forum. Once again, 80 percent of tesla 3 owners, when installing a non-original battery, sooner or later get the error "12v battery must be replaced soon". We have whole forums on this issue, and the only effective solution to this problem - buying and installing 1129182-00-B hankook atlasbx. In Ukraine such sell for 500-700 dollars. Here I am looking for where to buy it cheaper, and necessarily new.

P.S - What kind of 12 volt battery do you use? I see you also have a Tesla 3.

My original lead acid battery in my Model 3 lasted over 5 years and was still working fine when I replaced it. I only replaced it because I started tracking how often my car would wake up to charge it, and realized that it would wake up twice as often as someone with a new battery. I decided to replace it in order to reduce the amount of cycles on my high voltage contractors from the car waking up a lot to charge the 12v battery.

I replaced it myself with a battery I bought at a local auto parts store (Auto Zone) for almost 3x the price of the Tesla OEM battery. I have no problems recommending the Tesla OEM battery, but in my case I did not want to wait to get one from the nearest service center 1.5 hours away and paying a little more for a good quality battery doesn't bother me. Many people have replaced their OEM lead acid battery with another lead acid battery with no problems, which is why I confidently said that it doesn't matter that the battery is not OEM. I still stand by that statement. I think you are confusing the people having problems with an aftermarket battery with people that installed a lithium ion replacement.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If it didn't matter, I wouldn't be asking this question on the forum. Once again, 80 percent of tesla 3 owners, when installing a non-original battery, sooner or later get the error "12v battery must be replaced soon". We have whole forums on this issue, and the only effective solution to this problem - buying and installing 1129182-00-B hankook atlasbx. In Ukraine such sell for 500-700 dollars. Here I am looking for where to buy it cheaper, and necessarily new.

P.S - What kind of 12 volt battery do you use? I see you also have a Tesla 3.

There are many people in the US that have installed a non-OEM 51R lead acid battery (whether it is flooded or AGM) and I have never heard of anyone having a problem (at least ones that installed a working one that was charged, not one that was already discharged).

The people that had a lot of problems with the warning are those that installed LFP batteries. The Tesla software keeps detecting those types of batteries as defective.

How about you tell us the model/specs of the batteries others are having trouble with? Here in the US people just go to any autoparts store and buy a 51R battery and it works fine, although here in the US the OEM battery is actually less expensive buying direct from Tesla (only $85).

 

[N54TT]

My original lead acid battery in my Model 3 lasted over 5 years and was still working fine when I replaced it. I only replaced it because I started tracking how often my car would wake up to charge it, and realized that it would wake up twice as often as someone with a new battery. I decided to replace it in order to reduce the amount of cycles on my high voltage contractors from the car waking up a lot to charge the 12v battery.

I replaced it myself with a battery I bought at a local auto parts store (Auto Zone) for almost 3x the price of the Tesla OEM battery. I have no problems recommending the Tesla OEM battery, but in my case I did not want to wait to get one from the nearest service center 1.5 hours away and paying a little more for a good quality battery doesn't bother me. Many people have replaced their OEM lead acid battery with another lead acid battery with no problems, which is why I confidently said that it doesn't matter that the battery is not OEM. I still stand by that statement. I think you are confusing the people having problems with an aftermarket battery with people that installed a lithium ion replacement.

Is the waking up to charge behavior back to normal since replacing it?

 

[android04]

Is the waking up to charge behavior back to normal since replacing it?

Yes. It used to wake up every 4 hours to charge the 12v battery. After I replaced it, it took a little while to calibrate and then went up to about every 12 hours.

 

[evrevo]

Yes. It used to wake up every 4 hours to charge the 12v battery. After I replaced it, it took a little while to calibrate and then went up to about every 12 hours.

What do you use to track wakeup?

 

[brkaus]

Just had my 2nd battery put in our 2018 M3. This one lasted 3 years, 2 months. Car provided warning on Saturday. Scheduled mobile service for Tuesday (today) and the replaced it in the office parking lot for $113.

He also did the trunk harness recall and diagnosed the creaky front end (control arms). Ouch.

 

[pdx_m3s]

It's such a cheap part, and Tesla will come to your house and do it. I did mine preventively at 4 years. I would rather do it voluntary, on my time.

 

[jkdman123]

Just had my 2nd battery put in our 2018 M3. This one lasted 3 years, 2 months. Car provided warning on Saturday. Scheduled mobile service for Tuesday (today) and the replaced it in the office parking lot for $113.

He also did the trunk harness recall and diagnosed the creaky front end (control arms). Ouch.

Right before my warranty was up I made an appt for creaky control arms and had them replaced. I would suggest it to anyone in the same position. The key is to tell them that you hear it when you make a turn.

 

[gearchruncher]

I would rather do it voluntary, on my time.

That's the thing, in modern Tesla Firmware, you can.
My 2018 Model X finally threw an alert a few months ago. Spent a week warning the battery was weak. Then swtiched to warning it was very weak and the car had switched to staying on and would use additional power.

Yet the whole time it was drive-able, and gave me plenty of time to swing by Tesla and buy the battery and replace it on my time. It never stranded us, and I had no issue with my partner driving the car in that mode.

All of this is what you get when you throw a LiFePO4 battery in the car also and it (properly) freaks out that it's an incompatible battery.

 

[Hiline]

Right before my warranty was up I made an appt for creaky control arms and had them replaced. I would suggest it to anyone in the same position. The key is to tell them that you hear it when you make a turn.

They would not replace the part if they couldn't replicate the issue. Happened to one of my Model 3's.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I’ve still got my original 12V (7yrs old on Dec. 15th). I’m just curious how long it’s going to last, so no preemptive replacing for me. I do a road trip at least once a year, but it’s through California, so should be easy to find a replacement if needed.

 

[jkdman123]

They would not replace the part if they couldn't replicate the issue. Happened to one of my Model 3's.

All they did with mine was press on the body to compress the strut and try to make it squeak. The supervisor came out to check it. Then the guy asked me if it was causing noise in a turn and I said yes. The supervisor nodded and said replace them.

 

[Watts_Up]

What do you use to track wakeup?

Certainly a 12V Bluetooth Monitor like this one:

$30 - QUICKLYNKS Auto Battery Monitor BM2 Bluetooth 4.0 12V Battery Tester​

​

And you need to install an iPhone or Android App such as: AEG, Ancel, BM2, or BM3.

You will get this type of graph showing when the car is sleeping or charging:

Typically the battery voltage will be between 12.5 V and 13 V when the car is sleeping.​

When driving, the Inboard DC/DC inverter get activated to avoid getting the 12 V battery​

to be discharged, and the battery voltage will then be around 13.5 V.​

​

When the car is sleeping and the Inboard DC/DC inverter is charging the battery,​

the voltage is around 14.5 V, After charging, the battery voltage is around 13 V​

​

For what I observed, when the car is sleeping for few days,​

the battery voltage is dropping from 13 V to 12.5 V in about two days.​

​

When reaching 12.5 V, the Inboard DC/DC inverter get activated​

and charge the 12 V battery for about two hours.​

When the battery cannot keep the charge and needs to get replaced, you should get such type of graph,
showing that the battery was getting discharged very fast in about 8 hours instead of 48 hours:

Note: I noticed this type of graph about once every six months.

I was thinking that it was time to change my battery who seems not able to keep the charge,
but the following days the battery was working as usual and getting recharged only after 2 days.

I think that Tesla was recalibrating the 12V to check possibly that the 12V battery was still operational,
in particular before sending a notice for a new software update.

 

[Durzel]

I guess one could argue that the BT monitor itself is a parasitic drain on the 12v. If you're driven the car often enough it probably wouldn't matter, but from the looks of the graphs it is constantly monitoring, so always drawing a load even if tiny.

Since I barely drive my car I've ended up having to get my 12v replaced twice in the space of less than 4 years (both times under warranty). As you point out you can see the degradation of the 12v in real time because of how the car will start to wake more and more frequently to top it up. Eventually it will realise it's not long for this world and trigger the "12v battery needs to be replaced" message, after which I think the car will barely sleep at all.

I ended up removing my automatic frunk kit for a different reason (cinch motor kept corroding and failing), and since doing that my car has slept for far longer periods - several days at a time. The automatic trunk kit is connected to the penthouse 12v under the rear seats which - I found out after it was installed - is actually a switched live, so sleeps with the car. This does unfortunately mean that when I wake my car up, if I'm in range, it will open the boot at the same time. Unfortunately for whatever reason EVOffer are unable or unwilling to modify the firmware so that the foot sensor doesn't trigger when it receives power.

 

[hybridbear]

Just had my 2nd battery put in our 2018 M3. This one lasted 3 years, 2 months. Car provided warning on Saturday. Scheduled mobile service for Tuesday (today) and the replaced it in the office parking lot for $113.

He also did the trunk harness recall and diagnosed the creaky front end (control arms). Ouch.

What's your price quote to replace control arms? Some have posted that Tesla is doing them for a very low cost.

 

[gearchruncher]

If you want to track wakeup, online tools like Teslamate or TeslaFi will do it remote, and they do not wake up the car themselves.

 

[gearchruncher]

Since I barely drive my car I've ended up having to get my 12v replaced twice in the space of less than 4 years (both times under warranty)

This is not an ICE car with an alternator that only charges when driving. The 12V battery is managed the same no matter how much you drive it. Not driving it doesn't wear out the battery faster (well, it technically does, but maybe 1%, not 50%).

The car draws about 5W from the battery continiously. That's why it has to charge it every day or so. An extra 50mW for a bluetooth device will make no difference.